AeriaGloria

Move AP/AJ switch up. Makes a huge difference, many manuals suggest to just always fly with this switch up

Alright, either COOP is fully implemented, or one step away from it Helmet is now a beast. Since radar has such higher gimbal limits then IRST, you can get sensor lock up to the full off boresight range of R-73 and R-27. And then once you get that sensor lock your radar will maintain with the +/-70 degree gimbal and -45/+60 degree gimbal. Your IRST is flared or out of limits radar picks it up perfectly. They fall into +/-50 kmh gap of radar then IRST picks it up perfectly. Very nice. To clarify for those that use it: To fire Fox 1, Radar must be primary sensor. I.e, it must be the sensor displayed on the HUD (RL/RA). If Fox 1 is already in the air and HUD changes to IRST primary sensor (TP/IR on HUD), Fox 1 will guide fine. IRST can pick up radar lock easily whenever coop is on, but for Radar to pick up lost IRST lock requires A. In Radar mode and IRST has already previously picked up lost radar lock. In such a case if IRST loses lock Radar can regain it or Radar will naturally become primary sensor as soon as it can regain full lock again (such as when enemy exits notch). B. For IRST modes, Radar cannot pick up lost IRST lock if Radar is only ranging or attempting to range. You must see Radar diamond (STT) while IRST is primary sensor (TP/IR on HUD) for it to pick up lost IRST lock. Each mode is a little different: -In IRST search, it will use Radar to range until laser can pick up the target within 6.5 km at which point Radar goes STT. So until that laser ranges and Radar goes STT a lost IRST lock will not be picked up by radar. However you can prevent this by pressing lock a second time at any range to force Radar to become primary sensor and STT, also allowing you to fire fox 1. -In IRST vertical scan, it has similar logic except that Radar cannot find target until within 10 km, and will not show range during radar ranging. So requires laser to range or lock button pressed 2nd time for Radar to fully support IRST. -In IRST OPT/Helm, like vertical scan outside 10 km the radar cannot help you. But once inside 10 km it will go STT for full support. AFAIK, the only way to positively IFF is still to use radar mode for lock first, then in COOP move knob to IRST mode when you believe IRST to be in range to lock. Only then can you change radar power from Illum to dummy for coop to properly work in IRST modes after IFFing the same target.

Ahhh thank you!!

Combat employment claims it moves on same +/-45 degree vertical scale as missile aiming circle.

I don’t understand. Aren’t those just the normal boresight indicators for IRST or radar lock? Unless you mean it simply puts a circle around the center crosshairs until 1600m. That diamond, it has to move up and down on 45 degree scale. There is no other way I can see

I mean you are lowering the gun trigger. The whole idea is the circle is there to line up the crosshairs which will appear once within effective gun range. Here is a quote from combat employment, I was mistaken the symbology change is at 1200m ”At a target range of less than 1200 m, the information on the ILS will change to the "NSVV" mode indication (Fig. 55)” We were unsure before if it meant perhaps just the crosshairs with range circle and not the target circle, but I guess this is our answer.

The combat manual claims that symbology should only change to gun mode within 1600m. So need to line up gimbal limit indicator (diamond for radar and circle for IRST) in the center of the display to see approximate location just like a MiG-21 with a HUD now

Did you try within 1600m?

Interesting. I did find something in manual that could be a cause for this as well ED manual says that if SPO-15 sees a CW signal and a LPRF (category ‘C’) signal on the same azimuth, it is confused as a P category as long as both signals operate in same mode. I hear F-14 uses a second TWT for CW, idk about PD, and it was mentioned earlier about using LPRF to keep track during low closure rate. If PD can be manually activated, perhaps then we see what we see for other 4th gen’s, where we finally see a properly identified MPRF/HPRF “F” category. “If a continuous wave radar is detected on the same azimuth as a type С radar, and both operate in the same mode (search or track), they might be falsely identified as a single type П radar - the pilot must exercise their judgement to determine if the type П warning is legitimate or a false positive. If the type П is selected as priority, it prevents types Х and С from being displayed at all if present. If the two radars operate in different modes, the device has provisions to filter out false type П indication, so in practice this will only happen when both radars are tracking (as simultaneous illumination by both radars in search mode is unlikely).”

Makes total sense

You’re saying F-14 uses PD for Sparrow F/M/Phoenix illumination, AND the RIO/AI can flip a CWI switch, correct? Unfortunately don’t have many friends flying the F-14 lol

They are interested in doing it. They wanted to do it for R-60 for Hind but claimed they needed to wait for new FLIR model, but then new FLIR model came out and Fox 2s were unaffected becuase I bet it’s a really big job. I’m sure they will get there. KOLS was not designed to detect ground targets, regardless as you see in game it will see hot ground, water, tracers, flares, clouds. So it’s very possible you could not only detect but lock a ground heat source that had enough contrast, which would be needed because when locking KOLS an auto gain circuit turns on that requires the target to have enough “contrast” to be distinguishable from both the background and internal noise.

You do get a launch warning in the form of the P category for CWI pulse radars. No one seems to question INS realism on/off. We have it even for this module.

Makes sense! Thanks!!!! Do you know if this is for all locks or just during STT missile guidance?

Would’ve needed in cockpit and computer mods, but interesting it was added to the Cyprus variant but not Mi-35M lol

What is there to configure about the head down display?

I do wonder if 16x ATGM is an air show loadout or not. The original computer from Mi-24V-Mi-35M can only handle up to 8, which is why you see Mi-35M with 8x rack on only right wingtip so much. They have quad racks. But I also know the 8x rack has a winch to make ground crews more happy You say weight is a problem for modeling 24V, but this Cyprus/Serb 35P is already 300 kg lighter from fixed gear and short wing. But IMO, that is little FM work as it’s just moments that DCS naturally calculates into inertia.

Basically yes, but COOP doesn’t matter. You don’t need IRST to launch R-27T, it is just an IR fox 2 treated just like R-73 and R-60. You could tear the IRST from the jet and it wouldn’t stop you from getting LA with R-27T in radar mode becuase LA with R-27T only depends on seeker lock and in range. It’s just like any other fox 2, the radar cues the seeker head, when the missile can lock you get LA signal and can fire. No IRST involved. All COOP is doing in radar mode is picking up lost radar lock if it can. It doesn’t do anything for missiles except tell them where to point their seeker if the radar hasn’t already. Becuase you mentioned “shoot R-27T as soon as IRST has acquired” is why I said “the trick is knowing when IRST is locked,” becuase one COOP trick is to get radar lock, switch SUV knob to IRST mode when you are pretty sure IRST has lock. And lock will transfer from radar to IRST so you don’t warn the enemy RWR. If you change modes before IRST locks, the lock drops. You have multiple ways to aim a Fox 2, radar, IRST, Helmet, and Phi0. If you lock with Radar, you will get LA when R-27T locks on and in range. If you lock with IRST and no range, and R-27T locks, you will get flashing LA to tell you that you R-27T is locked but doesn’t know if it’s in range. If IRST locks with range from laser or radar, and you get solid LA, R-27T is in range and locked on. Same for helmet, if LA flashes the fox 2 is locked but doesn’t know if in range. Solid LA means missile is locked and in range. All fox 2s work like this.

I also wonder if it’s becuase P category was also often used for “Naval” radars as they were often CWI.

More testing. F-14 shows as flashing X like other 4th gen at long range, but then shows P + X within 60 km. Perhaps it is AI turning on CWI early When it launches sparrow, switches to P & C category interestingly F-4 made much more sense. C normally then P & C for launch. F-16, perhaps it is the radar mode AI is using, but was identified as flashing X + F much further then F-15/18, around 40 km, and total max detection of 50 km as flashing X. But within 30 km, flashing X disappears and is 100% identified in F category. Then I tested Fox 3. Everyone was scared becuase Q&A said average 2-4 sec warning, but I was pleased with the results First detected as 2 bar X category at 8 km, 5 bars at 5 km, and under 3 km rapidly goes from 6-10 bars. Just wonder how MPRF modes of F-15/18 affect things and why F-14 shows C category and no F.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s confusing it for some western 4th HPRF/MPRF signal. Which would of course reduce any utility against 4th gen’s. Not sure what it couldn’t confuse at this point

I did some signal strength tests with the intent of finding changeover from X category to F for F-14, F-15, F-18, etc. F-14 is complicated, so that’s another day. First off, CW detection is naturally not as good as non CW as it requires 2 bar signal strength to pass threshold rather then 1. And at these ranges where these planes are mistaken as Hawk (X category), it can only tell that it’s CW. F-15 is first detected around 80 km. F-18 around 75 km. From there both slowly increase to 5 signal strength X category until 25 km, where they transition to 1 bar X and F category, and then both exponentially increase to near full signal strength at merge (F-18 was a few bars short of full at merge, F-15 was full). Couldn’t find distance of 50/90 light turning on for F-18, but for F-15 was 10 km and 13 for F-14. F-4E was special, not being high PRF it can be detected further, up to 200 km. Will pass middle of strength gauge between 45-25 km. F-14 went from max detection at 150 km to middle signal strength at 45 km, and exponentially increased to about 10-12 bars around 10-15 km. Of course. If emitter is from 80-120 degrees off nose, the signal strength will be much lower the closer to 90 degrees it is. And at long range detection, two front azimuth lights will light up at shorter range then one. While signal strength is added for both so that stays the same, it simply has a slightly higher threshold to fully light up the two sectors compared to one as it is hitting them slightly off boresight. So for example, only left or right “10” light will show at first (at very long range, you may see bearing before signal strength or category appear) even if directly at 12 o’clock. Then as it can categorize it (even falsely, such as putting 4th gen’s at “X” at medium to long range) you should be able to get the more precise azimuth measurement of being able to have an adjacent pair of two antenna sectors lighting up.

Yes I saw. Just not in same post as your test. Just wanted to make sure. Thank you very much. Putting together all sorts of ranges for it

Hey, was this test of yours with F-16 or something else?

Thank you that’s very helpful My testing confirms. However, I am struggling to find places where TP is leading, loses lock, and radar picks it up. Within laser range or after pressing lock, it shows radar leading (yet I have seen IRST leading with radar STT diamond). Yet I swear I have seen it before! Perhaps when I had coop on but radar still in ILLUM in IRST lock. Just more testing needed to narrow it down now that the rest is taken care of. I realize with radar ranging this shouldn’t happen, but only STT. One thing your results inspired me to look at. In vertical scan beyond laser range in coop, the radar was in ranging mode just not showing range. Then when laser or lock button pressed of course STT as you found out. When locking Helm/OPT above 10 km, radar was constantly on as if trying to regain lock, and thus we get to how it knows when to suddenly capture at 10 km. This seems to jive with statements that in helm/opt coop both sensors attempt to lock until they do. Yet descriptions of IRST vertical scan are much more vague.