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I like the in game because it's in game; makes it easier to adjust. Not a small consideration when starting out because there's a lot of graphics settings fiddling getting your frame rate where it needs to be while also trying to get the best visuals. The thing is you end up going back to PD and adjusting after those settings so keeping it closer=better.

This price point hits somewhat regularly, Walmart had it for 350 at Xmas for example. Not sure I would hold off on the WH while sitting on an X55. The A10 has more functions than most on the HOTAS so the WH setup will usually support other aircraft fairly well and the Tomcat specifically would be easy to model on it. Their next grip is (reportedly, due to a USB limitation) going to be limited to the same 22 commands as the WH because they want to maintain backwards compatibility with the WH base. Of course now you've got Virpil releasing their new stick which some might say is a, ahem, homage to the VKB bit but with Virpil you should actually be able to get your hands on it within a few months instead of somewhere between months from now and never. I'd probably go that way if I was in the market at this time.

I love coffee. I wouldn't go better than sex as a rating but it's certainly a pleasure to have my morning cup. Wait a minute... What were we talking about? :)

The internal changes to the stick are partially listed in the OP, these were largely aimed at reducing losses from returns rather than performance improvements although they're spun as much as possible as the latter. Nothing wrong with that, increasing reliability is a win all around. Because the changes were largely aimed at reducing warranty costs I would not move from the 55 until it died since there is little in terms of functional improvements to hang a purchase on and your already invested in it no matter what it's reliability might be. I'm using the right thumb-stick for weapons select and the left for slewing the curser,;it's an axis that can be chosen in the axes field. I don't use the press on either as the height of the stick makes it hard to press it in without also moving one direction or another. You can get around it by putting in a large dead zone but I don't like a large dead zone. I've made the small button directly above the left as the select for the curser.

IMO the only reason the Thrustmaster TPR isn't getting a lot of recommends is the price. Yeah, I know it's stupid high, I get it. On the other hand you if you've got the ching and you drop it you're not going to be sorry. I was instantly a better pilot just rolling out to the runway. Not exaggerating, the only way those things would feel better is if a tentacle popped out the top and gave me a reach around. Stupidly expensive I said? Maybe, maybe not. It wasn't for me. For you?

Don't let the game map any of the axes. In DCS make sure that you are on sim and not game. Delete all the axes, there should not be a single DCS assigned axis remaining. Now light up a free flight mission, at this point your stick and throttle axes should do nothing. Start mapping your axes one at a time and verifying each one before moving on to the next. Make sure you're setting left and right thrust, thrust should not be used.

Gents, I wasn't beating the guy up, my critique was constructive and in no way unfair. I'm an engineer, own my own business, and know how things are done in the corporate world in general because I sell my services to them. No one really knows exactly how Rich is placed within TM, he might be anywhere from a low level gopher to surprisingly senior. In this regard my purpose was to put a bug in his ear, nothing lost if it has fallen upon ears that no one is listening to but it's just possible that he may be speaking up in various meetings and chiming in on what's he's learned on the internet. As to quality there is isn't much argument that the X56 as it sits is bottom of the barrel. I've got various other peripherals laying about that are no worse built and a whole lot cheaper. I've also got a WH, had a couple Cougars, etc. I'm not beating anyone up when I say the quality isn't good. It's not. Anyone who has screwed around with these things knows it. I doubt Rich is stupid, he knows it's true just as we know it's true. Lets get past that and move on. Lets also get past the competitive landscape question. I use this product while working; I need something I can easily pull out of a cabinet, use, and pick back up and return it to said cabinet. It needs to have a built in twist or other mechanism for rudder because I don't have space for pedals at work and it's just one more hassle that I don't want to deal with in the limited time I get to fly. When you think about it that description is very different than most people flying at home and yet it's not so far away. A whole bunch of people pull their sticks out and use them and then put them away. Lots of people don't have room for rudder pedals. While I also have a home HOTAS that is much nicer many people don't have the funds or don't want to invest them in a more expensive system. There is a place for an inexpensive HOTAS that gets the job done and right now there is only one. That's where things get sticky. While this is the best that money can buy on the bottom end that situation only exists because it's the only fully functional HOTAS at an entry price point unless you want to buy ancient tech or something more akin to a toy than a HOTAS aimed at high fidelity flight sims. Too much typing already and I don't want to fall into pedantry. My point was that the X56 isn't all that far away from being attractive in it's own right rather than the only real entry level option and Logitech has the know how to bring a substantially better X56 to market at the same price point and make a buck. They don't have to now but is their reputation and brand valuable enough to get them to act in the absence of competition? I don't know, maybe Rich will bring this up in a meeting at some point in the future...

You could breath on the X52 and move it, that is too soft for almost any use, it had essentially no resistance. On the other hand the X56 has multiple throttle resistance issues. First is the fact that it gets harder to move even if sitting a few minutes in auto-pilot while doing various other duties in the cockpit. Then you have the fact that it isn't consistent; it is a little harder to get moving from a stop and then resistance goes down as it starts traveling. Move it around a lot and resistance goes down more than when you were just moving it around a little and much more than when it's been sitting unmoved on autopilot. It's almost like the guys that designed it never actually flew with it; they moved it about in the shop and decided that they had added in the resistance people were asking for and called it a day. If they had tested it out in it's intended use they'd instantly find out that the way it resists movement makes it difficult to make precise control movements in flight sims. Which I suppose is a good time to mention that I don't know a thing about the space genre and their needs in terms of control movements so in fairness maybe it works better in that use. You guys could rule the world here because there is no economical flight HOTAS that actually works well and doesn't feel like cheap crap. I own the X56 only because it has no competitor at the price point. Ironically if it did have one it would probably be a different product because you would have fixed things like the throttle resistance which isn't ever going to work well as is because quantity of goo was never the problem. Your fix was free and it was easy but it was not a fix, something that you wouldn't have been complacent enough to leave as is if you had to compete. Eventually someone is going to step into this space with an economical product that doesn't look, feel, and scream cheap when you pull it out of the box. It could be you that makes that product, or not, but I do know whoever it is, they get my money. As I said in another thread, you buy this product because you're on a budget, it's better than a keyboard and a toy, and it has no competition. You do not buy it because its the product you actually wanted. That perception is something you could change if you wanted it to change.

If you're going to get into the throttle I don't think that stuff people call grease is actually grease, more likely it's an epoxy adhesive minus the catalyst. Do not get it on cloth or other similar materials as it's very sticky and you'll need more than soap to get it off your hands and anything else you may get it on during the process. Worth doing however as the throttle is much better afterwards and it's quickly done. Logitech mentions fixing this problem in the updated X65 but I have to call BS on that: At best it was horrid before (I didn't have the 55, cant comment on it's throttle resistance) and they've now reduced horrid to bad which doesn't qualify as fixed.

Yeah, I feel like the stick slop on center is the only really strong detraction form this setup. In most flying it isn't so much of an issue because you're pulling through it, holding, the going back through as you ease up coming out of a turn or whatever. When refueling, trapping, that's when it goes from just feeling a little cludgey to actively making it harder to fly. Gotta agree on wiping out that sludge, the throttle is pretty smooth once you get that crud out of there. Anyhow, a year in and no issues. In fairness though it should be noted that this is my work setup and most of my flying time gets put on the WH at home. At a guess that might add up to a few months of an avid simmer using it as their only HOTAS

Lol, I commiserate with you folks but I wasn't trying to start a rumor, I was trying to learn if one I had seen popping up had any substance. It seemed to fit in well here despite the subject because of the trend of the thread. There IS something odd about a joystick being announced so long ago and not being released: You've got middle eastern outfits best known for vaporware and missing ship dates beating Thrustmaster to market. I was also kinda wondering if the thing may have been killed... Edit... Not saying it's been killed, that's strictly random conjecture on my part as a possible reason for it not shipping yet. It would explain a lot.

There are some rumblings about TM making a really good stick and throttle to match up with the TPR pedals, something substantially better than the current WH. I really cant find much of anything other than wishful thinking to support that; anyone have anything to add in that regard?

Thanks for updating with the solution!

Same as the other fellow; make sure you have the drivers installed, have the latest SST software, have the software open and the profile loaded, and it will work in DCS. Remember these sticks are just sending either keystrokes or DX assignments depending on how you program them, nothing "gets brought into DCS" as was implied above. It's really just a keyboard emulator in the shape of a joystick and throttle. To learn how to program it first peruse the manual, when you've got an idea of what your going to be about go ahead and watch some programming videos. Most of the most of the information is transferable across the joysticks so don't be afraid to take a peek at X55/56 videos. When you get to something specific that's hanging you up don't hesitate to ask; there are lots of savvy people on here and one of them is likely to have your answer.

The wiring was one of the fixes Logitech put in on the "upgraded" version. Having been in the thorttle to remove most the goo used for resistance I can say the wiring appeared to have adequate slack and was properly bundled with nothing rubbing. Been in the WH throttle as well and it isn't pretty in there, the beauty is skin deep. I like the WH better though, I can afford nice things and don't much like things that feel cheap. The X56 feels cheap to me, maybe that's an unfair assessment but it's my opinion. If I could have the stick I wanted it would be something like the X56 but nicely done with premium hardware and attention to detail. I'd buy that stick over the WH without question. It's a problem we all face, we're not really buying what we want: We've got little to choose from and all of it flawed leaving us to decide what is the lesser evil.

I'm an engineer which I suppose in this context means I'm not an expert in a related field. As a layman I can say with confidence I've used both better and worse software than what's on offer here. In both cases there is a PDF available which can be easily found and downloaded and to program either HOTAS to full advantage they have to be perused in moderate detail. In both cases it wasn't enough to answer all my questions and I was forced to go to further lengths (Youtube, forum dives, etc.) to get the information I needed to create custom profiles. In neither case was any stock profile that came with the software what I wanted and in both cases the only the only way to what I wanted was to learn to use the software. The time invested learning the software for either was much the same and both required doing research outside of the provided materials. Once I did learn how to use either software a profile can be created in either with roughly equal ease. Obviously I can't fault your opinion, you've a right to it and I respect it. More, I think objectively that you're not wrong; the WH is a better choice as I already said. I still disagree with how you got there because your opinions of the software aren't based on actual use but rather a quick peek. In real world use the more glossy offering isn't easier to use at all, if anything it's harder if you want to dive into writing scripts. It only seems easier until the shine comes off when you actually start using it. About the size of the X56... As I recall it most of the reviews mentioned that those with smaller hands might want to think twice. I don't have much more to add here: In most respects I agree with you, the WH is a better solution and in the unlikely event someone actually asked me I'd tell them to skip the X56 unless that was all they could afford or they has a special use case like mine. Were this unlikely inquirer in that latter situation I would go ahead and recommend the X56 because it does work, can be programmed by anyone who wants to take the time, and is a whole lot better than the keyboard and a toy.

The WH software doesn't "make a trip" to DCS either. You can use custom LUAs along with a profile with either one but you still need a profile in the respective software up and running. I have both setups, the WH at home and the X56 at work and use them both. I like the WH much better, no question, but the X56 works and has some advantages: It can be used without pedals. I hate not having pedals but at work it's a necessary evil that comes along with space requirements and the need to quickly pull the gear out of a locker and throw it back in after use. You can of course create an axis for rudder on the stick or throttle of the WH but that's not exactly a win. It''s cheaper. For most people in this hobby it probably wont matter but for some even the 200 on sale X56 is a stretch. For those people it gets them a functioning HOTAS and while it may not be the one they want it's one they can have. Cheaper is also an advantage to those who are just testing the waters and want to keep their expense down while they decide if flight sims are for them. The X56 has more potential layouts than the WH which can be nice and is one aspect I like about it over the WH, I've got more layout options. In any event Target is neither easier or harder to master than SST so you've still got a hill to climb in that regard unless you want to go with pre-made stuff. That has the advantage of being easy but the disadvantage of not being your baby made with love and care exactly as you want. You can of course do this with either HOTAS so things might seem a push but it isn't so, there are many more profiles for the WH available so that's a WH win if you're going to run something from the community. In the end I think useless is an unfair characterization of the SST software. It has ultimately less power than the Target software in the hands of gurus but is possibly more powerful to folks with less skill since it has some options that Target lacks and they are more accessible to ordinary users. I don't have any problem whatsoever with it working every time or not doing the same thing twice. This is strictly in your hands with the X56 just as it is with the WH of course but that's the point, it's going to do exactly what you programmed just like the WH will for better or worse. If you're like me it means you're going to lock up your computer a few times with stuck keystrokes and that sort of thing while learning with either software but it's all part of the learning curve for both. As to the quality and performance it's in a price point all it's own so it doesn't really have a direct competitor making it best in class due to... lack of interest? I cant disagree with your assessment of it's quality other than I think you're maybe overdoing it somewhat because you're POed at the moment over your struggles with the software. I'm hopeful that the WH will be nice enough for you give you the incentive to invest some time to get it working. However you slice it I cant give Logitech much credit for upping the ante, they reduced their warranty costs with some small changes but didn't do anything to improve the product itself which I would describe as not just cheap but cheap feeling. It works, it's the cheapest thing you can get into that could be described as a full HOTAS at this time. Faint praise but for those who would otherwise be flying with the keyboard and a toy it's something. You''ve probably figured out now that most of this wasn't really aimed at you, you've made up your mind already and honestly I'd say you're not wrong. If you've got it to spend and you are going to stick with flight sims for any length of time the WH is a better choice all around. Others will come along seeking information though that would be suited to the X56 and might benefit from knowing a little more about what they are getting into if they drop ching.

If you ask me VR is a game changer without any qualification. I'll never be satisfied with flight in 2D again and I say that having plenty of grief over VR. I'm one of those who can't go back, no question.

Your going to want to download a PDF of the software manual and peruse it; you don't have to put in a lot of study but should pay attention to the basics so you have some familiarity with the nomenclature and concepts. Then you'll need to decide what type of profile you want to create: Do you want to have separate modes for Nav, A to A, A to G? Maybe you want to keep your most everything on mode 1 but have a 2nd mode just for take-off, landing, and refueling? Whatever the case may be you'll want to start working toward that goal from the start. As an example I run the second scenario with my mode 2 dedicated to refuel, take-off and landing. To this end I have mode 2 latched so it stays on until I press again. That is latching, it's a hold. If you make your second mode unlatched you can set a momentary like the pinkie to be a mode switch and hold it with another switch to issue the mode 2 command for that switch. Either one can work well depending on your layout philosophy. I prefer to use a latched arrangement because I'm doing the modern aircraft where the pinkie can already have a layered command. This is something you'll want to pay attention to, use the HOTAS commands where available and if DCS had a layered function with that switch you'll capture it in your profile. So that would bring me to how it works: it's just sending keyboard commands. All you have to do is have the SST software running and the profile active and it will take care of the rest sending whatever keyboard commands you have associated with a switch, rotary, etc. Yes, all three modes will be available. To go back to the beginning: have a look okay the software manual and the watch some of the many YouTube videos explaining programming various functions. It doesn't take long to get the concepts down and you'll find yourself up and running in no time. I'm on my phone in airport BTW so I I'm trying to be brief. Don't hesitate to ask if you run into something you don't understand; there are lots of helpful people here that will be able to help.

I'm going to have to disagree somewhat with the above; in my opinion it's best to leverage The Logitech software because it opens up many programming opportunities you wont have in DCS. What I did was delete all the auto assignments for the axes and set them correctly in DCS. From there everything else goes into the Logitech side of the house. Learning how to use the software isn't hard, there are many YouTube videos showing methods for programming various functions in various ways and most of it you'll figure out after a little clicking around. Your reward will be vastly increased possibilities and once you learn what your missing without leveraging the software I suspect you're going to be glad you invested your time.

Were it me I'd bind them on the Logitech side of the house because you open up many more options and it's not difficult to do with a little prep work. That work being wandering around Youtube and viewing some of the videos showing how to do things like programming the speedbrake, rotaries, and so on. You can watch older videos on the X55 also and find most of the information applicable: Here is an example to get you started --->

Make sure you're not on game, you need to be sim. You have to delete all the axes and reset them correctly yourself or you'll get throttle issues like this so if you haven't done that I'd go there first.

I'd go in and delete all the axes set by DCS carmik, then turn around and reset them manually. Make sure your attempting to put the commands on the correct device in DCS and also check to make sure you're on sim and not game. It can be easiest to open up a free flight in the air and set your axes there checking each one as you go.

Sounds like drivers may be a factor. If you've already been there remember you need to remove all the default axes in DCS and put them back in manually because they're sure to be screwed up at default.

Fair warning, once you do get in there it'll look like crap until you get your frame rate up. To accomplish that you'll need to turn things down much further than you're expecting if you're like a lot of us. Don't worry, it's normal.