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If you haven't done so you can search for the thread here that was started by a Logitech rep outlining the changes to the X56. Of those changes I can say with certainty that they did lengthen the wiring so it doesn't bind. I observed this when I had it open to remove some of the adhesive they use to provide friction which was excessive, a problem they said they fixed but did not.If you buy in you should expect that you are going to open the throttle and do the same, you can't fly smoothly as is and refueling is impossible. I get no ghost presses which was a frequent complaint with the previous iteration and something they said they fixed. This was reportedly for two reasons, lack of power on USB 2.0 and transmigration. I'm on USB 3.0 so cant say if it's fixed on USB 2.0 or not. My stick does not make any noise at the spring mechanism and moves smoothly without any of the bad feel that was reported as an issue. I can say compared to my Cougar it doesn't feel all that great but it also doesn't feel bad and hasn't caused me any grief. The claim to have fixed the lighting but mine seems to be good only in the greens and blues. For me this is fine as I like the color to mimic the cockpit lights. If you're an LED lover you may not be good with it. Build quality seems just ok. I don't feel ripped off at the sub 200 price point but nothing jumps out at me shouting quality. Overall I actually like having all the options on the throttle as compared to the Couger and the ergos there are pretty good for most of the switch gear. The rocker under the pinkie is an exception, it feels super cheap and cludgey in it's movement and has a much stiffer throw than a pinkie switch should have. The stick ergos are not as good. I'm a big man with big hands and do fine reaching all the hats but those with smaller hands are probably going to find they're stretching up to them by lifting the base of their hand off the rest. I'm not fond of the rudder control but as I don't have anyplace for rudder pedals it was actually one of the reasons I purchased this HOTAS. The thumbsticks on both are too tall making the press function almost impossible to use without also commanding anything you have programmed in on of the directions. I'm not unhappy with my purchase. Realistically it's about the best you can do at 200 dollars if you are looking at flying complex flight sims but this is more do to the lack of competition than anything else.

I'll second the request for updated pics and specs.

For practical purposes AOA is relative to flight path and does not change when considering a specific number, 8.1 degrees AOA is 8.1 AOA in any configuration and speed in which it can be attained. What does change terms of approach is the flight path, speed, and relative angle to the surface. As an example consider a clean aircraft traveling at 350 knots; use the stick to put it into an 8.1 AOA and you're climbing with a different angle to the surface than when doing the same at a lower speed and configuration where you might be in level flight or descending. I in no way mean to be condescending here because I'm just now starting to get half decent at maintaining a decent AOA on approach but here it is... Practice. If a pathetic old man like me can get half ass anybody can, keep working at it.

I set mine up by deleting them in DCS as they were wrong anyways and then adding them in (X, Y, rudder, throttles) correctly. From there I did everything in my profile including the dead zones and curves. Works fine.

HOTAS, I'm thinking it's called something like "Throttle Designate Select" or similar. The HOTAS section is quite short; just scroll through those commands and you'll know it when you see it.

Logitech says they also updated the X52 Pro to address the various QC issues but I've not read up on that one. Going to the VKB it may or may not be a good idea but right now it doesn't matter, you can't get one. Those are only for pilots who already have something and don't care about waiting for months and then some. That's just the stick, we're talking HOTAS here and their throttle is at best December if you believe their estimate. Of course anyone that believes their estimate already owns swampland in Florida for which they paid top dollar. A more realistic guess might be this time next year still finds you hearing excuses rather than shipping dates. Not exactly a viable option.

Good point, the used market is a great alternative to getting into an up market HOTAS if money is a problem. *thumbs up*

I've never seen any data on who prefers more (and more useful) buttons over having a replica stick in hand but of those few virtual pilots I know in the real world the answer is 100% for more (and more useful) buttons. That same small sub sample of virtual pilots when bench racing this question were unanimous in the thought that doing more on the HOTAS was better overall for immersion than having the replica stick but going to the keyboard more often. It's interesting to me that there seems to be a larger percentage here who feel that the replica is far and away a better option. I'm not saying there is a right answer just that I find it interesting that more people on this forum seem to prefer the replica over a more feature rich controller. Perhaps they're just more vocal... *shrugs shoulders* However that may be I feel the same as some others have posted above, their stuff is getting long in the tooth and I was hoping for an updated HOTAS with contactless sensors and so on, not a yesterdays tech add-on for an existing product that is ancient in gaming dog years.

I find myself flying in auto flap and baro hold most of the time during transit and seldom touch the trim outside of approach.

Can you still get an X55? However that may be the while the X56 is no substitute for the good stuff it's also a fraction of the cost and works fine for what it is: An el cheapo HOTAS. In one respect it's superior to the good stuff in that it has more buttons and programming options then anything else available. Logitech posted here that they had improved many of the quality control issues and it appears to be true. The wires out to the throttle were extended, no ghost presses, etc. A person can do a search and will find that the updated stick (black graphics replacing the blue is the easiest way to tell the difference) been getting generally good reviews over on the space forums where it's more popular due to the thumbsticks. Not that these other gentlemen/women are wrong, you can get a much higher quality if you're willing and can afford it. And yeah, Saitek had an awful reputation for quality control which they got the old fashioned way, by earning it. If nothing else Logitech is at least trying to reduce warranty losses by fixing the most egregious problems. It's still el cheapo but should be evaluated in it's price range where it's quality is par, not against options that triple it's cost.

Remember you can use both at the same time because anything left unprogrammed in SST can have a command assigned in DCS. I find it best to stick mostly with one or the other rather than completely mixed because you end up losing track of where you're programming what. All that said you have options to program in SST that cannot be duplicated in DCS and that makes it the more powerful choice. Button presses can't be easily sped up or slowed down because you only have the ability to change the repeat delay. What ends up happening as you increase that delay is at first no change (seen as a continuous press) and with more delay it becomes a stutter because you are simply pressing the button slower, not actually slowing the rate of zoom. Not to worry though, with the usual press/repeat/release command it will zoom in and out quite smoothly.

It appears Virpil is finally getting their production spun up so I'm likely to go that way as much for lack of throttle options than anything else. Probably go with the stick as well since they claim they will have multiple software modes for the works down the road and it will be backwards compatible. That would mitigate the lack of controls on the stick making it more viable. I'd actually prefer something else otherwise but no one really makes what I would want; something the likes of the X56 but of high quality and without the ergo blunders.

I think it may be an adhesive; I've encountered some with the same properties before adding the catalyst. Whatever it may be it certainly isn't fixed as Logitech has claimed.

Does the weapon select have secondary functions? I know the SOI hat (castle) changes to the air to air/air to ground modes when in those master modes. At any rate I stayed all in on the profile and those modes work if you select them from the HOTAS category. Same with the paddle and pinkie.

I responded on the other thread where it was a bit of an off topic. I'll amplify on that with response to a few things mentioned above. If you have not done so you should go down to the input section and search up the thread started by a Logitech rep that lists the changes they made to the updated X56; these can be identified by the grey instead of blue graphics. Most of those changes appears to me to have worked. I'm plugged directly into a USB 3 on the laptop and not getting any of the ghost presses. I don't have any noise moving the stick around. Having opened it up to remove the grease I can verify they did change the wiring so that it's not binding when you reach full stroke on the throttle. The thing they say they fixed which they did not is the throttle resistance. This is too high, you absolutely cannot make quick, small, throttle movements of the type you're going to need to trap and refuel in the F18 module. You're going to get into the throttle and remove and remove grease if you go the X56 route. The software isn't perfect but it is the only way to do some of the things you can do with the rotaries and buttons. You do get a lot of power there and you have to be careful to avoid things like unintended continuous key presses. It isn't all that hard to learn though and there are quite a few tube videos showing a lot of different button setting ideas and methodology. The updated X556 was selling on Amazon for 197 when I purchased, not sure why you cant buy from there? Regardless the Warthog is in low supply right now (in the US) and when I was shopping a few weeks ago would have run 550 dollars. That may change at any time but the few places that had them in stock were fairly proud of the Warthog and pricing it accordingly. Going over to the Warthog side you're talking about a stick I don't own. I'm still running my beloved Couger for my home HOTAS and it really feels like a piece of art compared to the X56. I suspect the Warthog would give the same vibe in comparison. My Cougar is also smoother, most particularly in the throttle. I really cant overstate the feeling of quality the Cougar oozes compared to the X56; not in the same ballpark. Then again the X56 gives you a lot more buttons to play with sans modifier and with a modifier the more just gets more. You will need to use a combo of DCS and the Saitek software to use modifiers, it isn't native in the Saitek software like on the X52. Not sure if you're really going to need a modifier though, you get a lot of commands available in each mode and I find I'm not using up the available buttons. Realistically if you accept the X56 for what it is (an el cheapo HOTAS costing half of what the good stuff runs) it's fine on it's own. You never really forget about the cheap feeling while you fly but it isn't intrusive either. You can ignore what doesn't work well and the rest is still a value proposition. You can do better though if you're will to spend. And wait I suppose if you want some of that Eastern love.

Meh, the money is nothing, 80 bucks means you stay home and cook one night instead of going out to eat. Decide to do that instead and your total value will a tasty treat today and one crap tomorrow. Decide to skip that night out and get the F18 and you'll be thrashing about the virtual skies for months, possibly years. Seriously, the money isn't worth talking about for anyone who would describe themselves as a flight sim type. That doesn't mean the module is a buy, I'm saying the money shouldn't be a consideration because flight simulation is about the best value entertainment money can buy. So should you buy it? Don't know. To be honest detail sims like this work best for those that like to do the works. The type that wants to start cold, take a load of hurt to a target, defend against any A to A threats coming and going, put her back down on the boat having done all that. Possibly a couple hours invested in that one mission. If you were that type of flyer I'd give it an unqualified buy. For someone that only seems interested in dogfighting... I cant really recommend it. The thing can pull lurid angles of attack trying for position and the energy management is a little different than what I'm used to since those lurid slides really dump speed but for all that the computer is doing a lot of the handling and you're left with the grand strategy as your real work load. Not sure a pure dogfighter is going to find the F18 the craft he wants to get into for his evening flight, I suspect a dedicated dogfighter will find his cursor hovering over the F18 for a second but then move over to something WW2 or Korean vintage and that gets selected instead.

I think a main part of the X56 attraction is simply the price, 197 on Amazon right now which isn't a lot of ching. There is also the rudder pedal factor. At work I cant use rudder pedals so that has to go on the stick or throttle. With the X56 you don't have to give up a control for that and even if you did there are so many it hurts less than with the WH. I never had that one BTW, I'm still soldiering on with my old Couger at home although I've decided to put it out to pasture this fall when I return. For that one I'll probably go with one of the Eastern options unless Thrustmaster pulls out a surprise offering at E3.

Yep, I had read you should do that before you jump into the cockpit but I was antsy about my long awaited F18 and didn't heed that advice. Didn't take me long to jump into the menu and delete the rudder, throttles, pitch, and roll (the only ones that were assigned by DCS) and set them again correctly.

I've just picked up the newest Logitech iteration of it for my work HOTAS. Cliff notes would be it serves my purposes and at the price it doesn't really have any competition. I like it for what it and it's not awful. In fact it's a pleasure to use when you ignore the bad stuff and just accept it as an el cheapo HOTAS. more details... The grease is still too thick, buy it and you'll have the throttle apart within the first few days to scrape most of it out or you'll be bolting it down because you will never be able to trap successfully with it as sold. Having done that I can say with certainty that the wiring has been fixed and does not bind with plenty of slack in there now. I don't have any of the noises described when moving the stick. Ghost presses haven't been an issue. I read this was caused by lack of power and usually fixed when plugging into a powered USB 3 port. I'm plugged right into the USB 3s on the side of my laptop and not seeing any sign of that problem. Overall as near as I can tell they've largely fixed the worst of the hardware issues or at least reduced their severity. I like the concept of this hardware. For me lots of buttons, hats, switches, and rotaries mean I stay more in the game even if the hardware is not the same as in the aircraft. Others of course disagree, strictly a personal thing. My ideal HOTAS would be something like the X56 but well built in high quality materials instead of what you get with the X56 which I don't think anyone would describe as that. Random thoughts... The thumbsticks are too long and this greatly reduces their utility. It's impossible to press them without moving the stick itself unless you're very careful about it. It's something people complain about in reviews and they're right. I'm big with big gorilla hands and don't find the stick too large as sometimes described. Those that don't fit that description might find it hard to reach the upper hat easily. My paddle appears a little different than what I've seen in pictures. It doesn't look quite as cheap and doesn't have the feel of being easily breakable as it's often described. Not saying it's rock solid but unexpectedly better than anticipated. I was wondering if a change was made here but the Logitech guy didn't put into into the change list he posted down in the input section. Good luck in your hunt.

Seems slow to me too: I've often got the feeling a Cessna 150 could/would kick sand in my face and walk away with the girl. An example would be when going from 85 to 100% power in level flight at 10k I find it picks up at a rate of 1 knot every couple seconds on a light/clean aircraft. I recall my grandmother accelerating faster with her walker. Maybe it's correct but doesn't feel Top Gun, more like CGOOIOW (Couldn't Get Out Of Its Own Way) Gun.

I'd chill out for a few days and see what exactly TM shows at E3, maybe it's of interest, maybe not. In my mind if you can afford the better stuff and you like to fly your virtual aircraft regularly there is no reason to get the el cheapo stuff; life is too short not to treat yourself to the pleasures of good gear when possible.

I just got the new version of the X56 as my work HOTAS. As far as the throttle movement being fixed so as to be less stiff, nah, lightest setting is still gonna come off the desk when you move the throttle unless you bolt it down. This means you're going to be taking it apart to remove the grease that provides the resistance. Except now that I've been into one I don't think it's grease in there as others describe it, it appears to be a non setting adhesive. Get it on your fingers and you cannot wipe or wash it off with any ordinary soap, I had to use carb cleaner to get it off my hand. Feels like you got a little of the spray on adhesive you use for gaskets on your hands. However that may be you almost certainly will be into the throttle to wipe it off to get it working correctly so be prepared for that if you go with the logitech. On the other hand they clearly gave the wiring a little extra length and on mine there is enough slack that it wont bind as was described with the wiring on the previous models. Quality feels like typical Saitek cheapness with a little bit of cludge in every button press although they're not awful, they just don't have that precise feel that can be had elsewhere if you want to drop the ching. On the other hand it doesn't feel like it's going to fall apart and everything works without issue. On the plus side having all those possibilities is nice and where WH guys are struggling with their F18 bindings I have all the HOTAS functions programmed with various hats and buttons still open for housekeeping chores. Ergonomics are not bad across most of the switch-gear. Its a shame you cant get the throttle alone for half or a little more than the 200 dollar price of the system. At that price it would be the best budget throttle available. On the other hand 200 is harder to swallow although lack of competition does make it a consideration. I'm wondering if the fact that they say the will not offer the throttle seperately and refuse to spend any money on packaging or anything else for the Saitek stuff other than a few production changes to reduce warranty costs implies they are working on something of their own. In other words they leave the Saitek stuff afloat to hold the space until they can get something of their own out.

I've added some housekeeping stuff on switch 1 through 6: Landing gear, flaps, arresting hook. Toggle 3 and 4 get throttle off/idle. Wheel brakes are on the large rotary. You will have to adjust the rotaries for your own hardware. They're set as banded with a narrow center so they start ticking as soon as you go off center. The problem you'll run into is that your center isn't exactly the same as mine so you may need to move that around a little so that you get a clean command immedeatly off center detent but you don't lose the no command when going back to center. You can actually see this while simply looking at it in the programming while moving the rotary. As I said before the counter-measures command will almost certainly change, I don't yet understand how it operates in order to set up an appropriate command. With that preface I'll try and upload again: the internet is 4k here (no, that isn't a typo) so it may or may not work. If not we can try email, I can usually eventually get that to work. Edit... Nope, not going to work. If you want you can PM over your email and I'll try that. If you decide you want to go that way please post it up here after and let me know what you think.

I would like to compare ideas on our HOTAS programming: What works well, what doesn't work, where we are locating commands, dead zones, etc. Those not interested in the minutia of setting up profiles for the X56 (and X55?) should probably move along. On my stick I have... The castle is set up as a 4 way/buttons with SOI. This one was an advanced command with only the press/release and time set to 0.00, works fine. The China is set up as a 4 way/buttons with the trim commands. In this case I used a press/repeat/release command with time set to 0.00, works fine. The thumbstick is set for weapon select; AMRAAM forward, Gun aft, Sidewinder on press. I set it up banded for the AMRAAM and GUN with a large no command area in the center to prevent accidental commands when trying to press for the sidewinder. Works well. Button A seemed like a logical choice for weapon release and the trigger, pinky, paddle are all set up with their associated HOTAS command and work fine. Not much to say about these. On the throttle... I've got the designator set up on the thumbstick. I did this using bands on both the X and Y set up with the usual press/repeat/release advanced command. Very smooth. The button directly above (E) is set up as the designator select. This is all good and I'm happy with it. I've got the lower 4 way hat (H4) set up as the POV hat using 8 way with buttons. I did this with the usual press/repeat/release command and 0.00 time. I find this one a little abrupt, it is smooth but a little to quick. I'm thinking about adding a delay starting with .1 to get it a little less speedy and jerky. The hat above (H3) is set as a 4 way/buttons to zoom in, zoom out, and view center. I don't like this one. It's too close to H4 and hitting the zooom correctly when moving around on the ground with the throttle at idle is dicey because the angle changes compared to how it is in the air. I've decide to move those commands to the lower rotary. Not sure what I'll put on here I've moved those. I've got the radar elevation on the rocker with the usual press/repeat/release command, works great. So thats about as far as I've got with my setup. Going to try out the zoom on the rotary tonight probably add some housekeeping commands on the toggles such as the gear, flaps, and so on. Suggestions? Ideas? Where are you gents/Gals locating your commands? Edit... I've tried the zoom on the rotary and it works well but I really like having both the panning and zooming close together so I've gone back to hats 3 and 4. I did switch to a .4 delay on the repeat and this smoothed out both the zoom and the panning nicely and I'm now happy with the speed. I've gone ahead and put the chaff/flare on the lower rotary and this seems to be a good placement as it falls to hand well and is somewhat inline with the real HOTAS placement at least in terms of concept. Right now I don't really understand how the counter-measures programs and dispensing works so I suspect it's just a place holder and the command itself will have to be modified. I did find out that my rotary doesn't quite have the center of movement in the virtual world lined up with the detent for center. As I made this a banded command I was able to give it some Kentucky windage to get the physical center lined up with the virtual. Still trying to decide what to put on the throttle scroller and stick POV hat... I'm going to try and upload my initial profile; the internet is very slow here so it may or may not make it.

I put it on one of the mini sticks set up as banded, smooth as can be.