Squiffy

Oh... my... God!... What the heck is this? crew_members = { [1] = { ejection_seat_name = "mig19p_pilot_seat", drop_canopy_name = "mig19p_canopy", pilot_name = "pilot_mig15", drop_parachute_name = "pilot_mig15_parachute", pos = {3,756, 0.391, 0.0}, -- {2.112, -0.369, 0}, g_suit = 2, -- % G suit efectivity: 0.0 to 1.0 (1.0 == modern g-suits) }, }, I mean really? You spelled it out in plain English right there in the note? How can it possibly be 2?? Haha, I MUST have missed something. But maybe not. I just watched a track of a 2 v 4 Sabre Mig 15 dogfight and one Mig was pulling 5 plus gs while I tried to get a bead on him. At least he wasn't shooting at me. From now on, my Sabre gets 1.0 to 2.0 g-suit. ;) I would buy the MiG-19 but now I am not so sure. This was the Beta update AI.

Yup. Rob, if you could give us good citations for the M3 and M20 data you posted, that would be a good start. And we need the stats on the ammo used not just the gun, to be sure the muzzle v is right. 900 m/s looks very good in game so if we can get the data to back it up, ED and BST should be able to make the change. Also, I think the g-suit and barrel warp lines in the aircraft .luas could be tweaked as well.

Hey that's great! Thanks. I'll look into it but I have to watch the eye strain. Cheers!

Maybe it's g suit effect or assistance? So 0.7 could be increased for the Sabre and 0.35 decreased for the MiG.

Right. I feel the same. Just a couple nights ago I made the mistake of leaving an aircraft set to good and not average! Haha, Shows you where I'm at. I may increase the stall speed just to see how AI handles it. It could climb yes, but the maneuvering near the limit is what we'd like to tweak. I need to be careful because eye strain is cramping me up this week. I need new glasses but I have to wait until after my surgery next week. ;)

Thanks Boomer. I've started into it. You can see in my g suit thread. The takeoff velocities are the same. Wing loadings will be different which is great and should be that way. That's part of the MiGs advantage there. But the AI Hornet > 1:1 thrust ratio climb tactic is one of the nuts we want to crack. Or, we could tweak the Sabre like with the guns. I will try and do some testing but eyestrain is creeping in. I will be home on medical leave after a procedure next week so maybe I can try more then. ;)

Hi gang, I found this looking at aircraft.lua files trying to tweak FMs. Can someone explain the g suit entry and how it is measured? crew_members = { [1] = { ejection_seat_name = "pilot_f86_seat", drop_canopy_name = "f-86f-canopy", pilot_name = "pilot_f86", drop_parachute_name = "pilot_f86_parachute", pos = {1.7, 0.5 , 0}, canopy_pos = {1.607000 ,1.181,0}, canopy_ejection_dir = {-1.0,0.2,0}, g_suit = 0.7, }, -- end of [1] }, -- end of crew_members crew_members = { [1] = { ejection_seat_name = "pilot_mig15_seat", drop_canopy_name = "MiG_15bis-fonar", pilot_name = "pilot_mig15", pos = {1.771, 0.856,0}, g_suit = 0.35, drop_parachute_name = "pilot_mig15_parachute", }, -- end of [1] }, -- end of crew_members My first impression is, it should be 1.00 vs. 0.00 for has g suit vs. no g suit. Am I right? Even if it is "onset" 0.7 vs 0.35 is exactly %50. What is that supposed to mean? Maybe it's just graphics? max g is the same in both ships with no regard to g suit. So is takeoff speed, which I find odd.

Aha, so SFM means Simple Flight Model. I was wondering about that. Is that the file mentioned above? I would love to look at that. I can look at the .lua files tonight. Gotta do laundry and wasted a couple hours this weekend experimenting with the P-51 50 cal sounds. No benefit in my mind so I switched them back. I just wanted a little my bang and boom at arms length rather than the pepper shaker sound we have now. But hey there are the sound settings in game too, "hear like helmet" and so on. I can play with that too.

In Microsoft Combat Flight Sim 3, the FM had two files for players. Not sure about AI. There was a database of parameters kinda like the aircraft.lua and then there was the actual FM file which was a bit more tricky with a dedicated .exe editor to generate the code. But it was built with an interface like a database with fields for the aeronautical figures. It also had model hard point, contact, and damage box info. My deepest dive into this stuff was with the Spitfire MkV add on. MS Silverlight was way cool and we built 3 additional theaters for that game! 4 counting WWI. The tail wheel was so dang weak that you could break it easily taxiing on grass. It was a huge immersion kill. Seriously it was a stupid low break point at like 2 pounds or some nonsense. Once I kicked it up to reasonable force levels given aircraft and pilot, it was better. I also built grass airfield facilities with many files to render it in game. A big one was the airstrip surface data where the hardness was controlled to make concrete different from grass. We used this to allow a softer but not plowed field death level grass aerodromes for the BOB early mod. I also created a Sikorsky R-4 helicopter flight model based on the Storch STOL FM. Using wind, you could hover and land. It was very cool. My dad worked on them in the Air Corps after WWII and earned his GI bill for college. He was an engineering professor for 35 years and is still kicking, reading FlyPast magazine at 91 years! :D

Hmm, I'm curious now, just how different is the AI FM from Player? In both jets and props, the torque and roll instability at low airspeed is challenging and realistic AFAIK. But then the AI is not and we see the example here. When scissoring against AI, you struggle with control "reversal" and coordination to execute a nice S while the AI seems air show perfect even while smoking and punched full of holes. Maybe a wobble can be created for the AI so at a certain level of damage a random or programmed wobble happens to simulate damaged systems? It's probably the simplification of the AI FM that causes this but it would be nice to now how.

Correct mslama. Gotta be careful with the word "all" although I did mean in the post above, not all the posts ;)

LOL! Maybe I should buy the MiG and enjoy some pounding firepower...to little effect. Haha just kidding. Yes the AI seems wonky and all the points above are on target. It's almost as if the AI was designed to make you mad, and not be a worthy adversary. That's why we always hear about flying online. That's all well and good, but I don't want to "go out in public" and spoil for a fight without practicing. That gets to another psychological point where some involved in the community, coders or online "vultures," get their kicks out of sticking it noobs and rookies. What the heck ever happened to sportsmanship and honor? Ah well, I'm ranting (as usual haha). The AI will eventually punch out with that much damage but the unbelievability of it is obvious. Talk about an immersion kill.

I forgot to add this, my favorite with my sig quote, 39:36: and this: Best one at 2:07 Valuable comments here: "Boots" again at 8:30 above. I've never fired a .50 cal but I have practiced with a .30-06. I'm 2 for 3 deer hunting in Alabama with a .303 lever action. Don't need the muzzle velocity there. I put the bullet where I want it, nice and easy. I missed marksman by rushing one round in AFROTC with .38 revolver. My stupid classmates! ;) edit: I also strongly doubt the Sabres would use the weakest, lowest grain ammunition available when the higher grain, higher velocity ammo could be used in the new high g, high speed jet combat environment. 850 vs. 890 m/s muzzle velocity is a no brainer for me. You can see it clearly in sim, and that's STILL using the flawed M2 BMG modeling with wrong rate of fire, amped up in a fix without regard to the barrel heat dynamics, causing all the shotgun complaints we have seen here. The Sabre is a great module and tons of fun to fly, but in those brief moments when it really counts, air to air, the guns let it down for a number of reasons. The rate of fire bandaid made it worse because it was not thought through. The choice of weak ammunition because a cut and dried easy answer was not available in the chosen sources, despite ample evidence when applied in the sim was frustrating. I understand the amount of work it took to create this ship. But the solution is so close it's disappointing to see it stuck this way. Ah well, I will move on to modern jets too at some point and the Spitfire, but we have learned how close we are to near perfect precision. And the problem lies exactly at the point of one of the Sabres greatest historical strengths. That's what I am on about.

So at roughly 1000 yards, the shooters guide shows a 20 ft. bullet drop under 1 normal g. So roughly 1 wingspan of the MiG-15 at 1 g. This will increase of course under g loading. And the Sabre carried M3 not M2 Brownings. It's close, and I appreciate those charts but then there is eyewitness testimony without any specific figures which could be protected for intel and security reasons. The photos are not retouched and do not lie. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3724667&postcount=46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-86_Sabre#/media/File:F86GunCamKorea.gif I'm not worried so much about the MiG. It's very good, like the rest of this sim. It's just very peculiar that the Sabre would be disadvantaged in the very places it had an historical advantage.

I got upset last night after I dl'd the beta update. But of course I realized what had happened. It over wrote my tweaked "inferior sabre" .lua file. and shell.lua. Two things that defintely need to be changed: F-86.lua barrel warp and shot heat equations. Just wrong. Effective range out to about 2000, 2100 meters. A 50 cal can go a half a mile with out much drop. Shell.lua. M2_50 regular and APIT. Muzzle velocity stupid low. Just compare the game arc to gun camera footage. 830??? More like 900m/s is tons better. Also active life range out to 9 units instead of 7. Heck even 8 would be nice. Then you start to see the reality of high muzzle v gun vs. low muzzle v cannon. That's the truth. Physics makes you balance the punch with muzzle velocity. This comes into play with g loading too and is another reason why the Sabre thrived over MiG alley. High g maneuvers, enabled by the g suit and flying stab, also limited the effectiveness of the low muzzle v cannon. MiGs could not pull enough lead to score hits on a high g Sabre. Period. Boots Blesse states this in his Dog Fights interview. When all these parts don't work correctly we have a problem. See my sig. MiG Alley was the rear guard of N Korea. The Yalu river is the border with China. This is where the UN Sabres flew cross country with drop tanks to go and kill MiGs. Where they would be found. Sabres flew CAP and fighter sweep missions. I have heard no stories of "Sabre Alley" where MiGs flew down, cross country, to establish air superiority and hunt the "inferior armed" and "poor climb performance" F-86. Say between Gwangjiu and Daegu and the Pacific Ocean. Kimpo and Kunsan are closer to the DMZ. I don't remember hearing any stories about these bases being raided or under sustained harassment after MacArthur did his brilliant end around after the initial NKA push to the coast and performed a re-invasion at Inchon. It's not that hard. I did it quickly again last night. Muzzle velocity, barrel warp, shell life, and oh yeah. I cheated and gave the Sabre 200 lbs more thrust. Haha! :D And yes, the AI is air show perfect especially at the limit. Meanwhile, I'm tumbling around like a clay pigeon for cannon shells in my hyperealistic FM Sabre.

To tell you the truth, I don't think I have EVER heard the wing overload sound in the F-86. Just blackout and locked up controls until you slow down. Is there a tin canning sound that is supposed to be there but isn't? How about a spar creak or snap? I get the engine flame out bang from being too quick with the throttle. Breath under g and turbulent control surface sound. Don't remember ever hearing the spar creak.

Thanks for the hard work guys. I still have the problem every so often. Last night I noticed it particularly when I was zooming in on a target using the zoom keys programmed to my stick. Everything was fine until I zoomed in. Then zip, internal engine sounds died but externals and breath... were still fine. Maybe it has to do with the origin point for the cockpit camera? The early post above indicated an error log for a value exceeded and ended with "gain." That to me indicated the level may be a problem and if it changes based on proximity or even zoom then maybe that's what's killing it or causing the error? I'll try to make a log and track.

Thanks metzger. Clear for departure. Roger good day. ;)

Happened to me again 3 years later. Several times. F-86. I'm going to disconnect my headset mic and phones and try again. This might be part of the problem. External sounds are still fine as well as radio.

I use it with Track IR. It helps when I raise my virtual seat to help with bullet drop in tight turns. But it can be a nuisance because of response lag when choosing a new target. I find that when you unlock a target, it takes a full second of so for the view to return to TIR-forward. Then when you are ready to re-lock, it locks on either the next aircraft of the flight you WERE following, or or some other one well removed from the one you spot close by. All the while, pivoting slowly with your VR head and almost making you blow chunks as you try to regain your bearings and re-sight the last bandit you wanted because the lag has let them get away of of sight. I also don't have much scale dialed in to my setup so I don't get a good 270+ view, especially up and down. My spikey stick makes for a general barnstormer freeforall anyway. :D

Yes get your axes adjusted and tuned, fly with the stick and trim the pressure off. I have not had trouble, especially RTB and flying approach. Works great.

Nice! Need to do some ground pounding and interdiction of my own.

Right, and carrier ops is there too. We did all kinds of gymnastics with the code and rendering in CFS3 to make carriers work with an imported Korea map but the terrain type was hard coded so it was always one step away from "reality." Imagine what could happen if DCS added the map? Corsairs, yes! Skyraiders? Wow! And for The Bridges at Toko Ri fans... the Skyraiders actually hit the bridges. Panthers flew CAP. Sabres already have rockets too ;)

Great! I could not attach files to PM. And my sent box goes empty right away. Not sure you got the PMs I sent. We might want to adjust the barrel heat now that a few updates have come out. The last ones seemed to break my 50s. Now they jam wicked fast at altitude. They come back down low but I need to remember to switch on my gun heat before merge.

Javelina, if you don't mind not playing online, get a good .lua editor like Notepad++ Edit your F-86.lua to have very little barrel heat. I use 0.001 * 1.0 across those stats. Then find your shell_table.lua in your weapons folder under scripts/databases or some such... not at home right now. If you want I can email the files to you. PM me if you want. You want the M2_API and APIT round to have 900+ m/s v. Dont' worry about the other v numbers. Also edit your effective range out to 1200+ ... even 2000 is OK. Not sure if this is in F-86 or shell. Then also you want shell lifetime up to 8 or 9. It's way better. Check out real gun camera footage on YouTube.