Arctander

I have to agree with Bignewy. The general definitions of alpha and beta as used in basic software development doesn’t really mean much any more in game software. It’s much more agile by appearances with sprints. In that case what they define open beta as is up to them to do. I basically treat open beta as a potentially broken alpha. Just a shame that we don’t have (yet) visibility of the backlog and sprint backlogs. I really really hope that this new spirit of transparency that Ed are talking about goes to that level of granular detail using automatic updating technology from their controlling software. I would of course much prefer more work to be done in the Hornet than is currently happening. Do we know if/when the systems devs will be coming back on to the hornet? It seems with the latest newsletter that only existing and new weapons are being worked on and any new radar modes and other avionics is at the back of the queue. Would be nice to know what kind of horizon the newsletters cover. Next month? Next two timeboxes? Or is it time unspecified. It obviously isn’t the whole backlog as there is much more to come...

Yep - any new cloud work that *doesn’t* include those two points is a waste of effort as it will just need to be redone later. It is really annoying at the moment wrestling with the hornets buggy radar when Fc3 flankers can see me with an ir sensor that is instant. So if only one of the two is done, it will be unfair....

Completely agree. As a point of principle any shared tech/system should come to the older plane first, and then move accross to the viper, or at worst be deployed at the same time. It’s this behaviour that has led to me closing my wallet on ED until they treat their customers with respect instead of chasing the next EA cash hype train.

Hi, Can someone from ED confirm that the current work on clouds is including: 1) Cloud synchronisation accross Mulitplayer clients 2) clouds will block/reduce effectiveness of all IR sensors (including flanker Irst) Thanks.

No. We need Ed to finish what’s on their plate before they even *think* of what’s next. So don’t even ask...

If ED agree to that consensus, why are they still working on the mosquito, the hind, the jug, when the F18 is far behind completion, the F16 is missing a huge amount of basic systems, the a10 is being graphically updated, the kamov is getting a complete new (paid) version/upgrade, and they’re building the paid supercarrier update on top of all the core sim issues. Stop working on the ones not released, sort out the hornet and the viper, bring the kamov and the a10 up to scratch and THEN start working on the jug and the mosquito. Only problem with that is no money will be coming in as they can’t build up the hype for a EA cash injection. I’m starting to think their business model is flawed and they need to change it or they’ll hit the wall (if they haven’t done so already) on what they can accomplish with their team in a reasonable time frame. Oh, of course - then there’s the MAC elephant in the room that will be sure to be sucking resources as it appears they think it will be able to compete with warthunder etc... Speaking of... wasn’t their meant to be some news on MAC in this update?! Edit: ps - cloud updates is not minor. They are not just pretty graphics. They need to sync across multiplayer clients and block IR sensors. If ED don’t do that then it points to a pretty massive understanding gap...

Honestly - just wait for them to declare it complete. I’m not buying anything EA from Ed again until they can show that they have at least a quality threshold they can hit, without impacting other products, and most importantly complete products within a reasonable (to me) timeframe. A year seems about right.

I’m not. I really don’t care about enhanced missile trail effects. That seems a ‘little detail’ compared to big graphical wins they should be working on like stopping clouds rotating in VR, syncing them accross MP, or making sure contrails don’t pop in/put at different zoom levels. And as for working on a whole separate voip system instead of coming to an agreement with the creator of SRS and bundling that in seems like a waste of development resources. I really cannot wait for the overall roadmap tracker as some of this work is not essential, and some appears to be a waste. Plus we are now told Hornet TWS will be behind even more ‘new weapons’ which themselves are after ‘completing existing weapons’ (though it is good to see they have listened on this point). So it seems that we won’t have a fully functioning radar system even two years after deployment yet F16 will have TWS within the next few patch cycles. the priorities are unfathomable.

Yeah, this is ED we’re talking about. Don’t hold your breath.

You shouldn’t have bought it. It’s obviously far away from the point that it is. Parity complete - and looking at the hornet it could be years. Imo If you already have a stable to fly keep flying those and you should have waited till ED finish a product.

Yup. I’m underwhelmed.

I for one will be quite happy if ED have seen sense and have been beavering away on the Hornet to get TWS out at the same time as the F16. Would be a nice start of the long, long road of earning back trust but I don’t expect they will do that as they don’t yet appear to have realised how much trust and goodwill they’ve managed to squander (they’ve certainly not apologised) so I predict a steady as she goes, bug fixes and more shizzle for the F16 and a bone or two thrown for the Hornet. I hope to be surprised but expect to be underwhelmed.

The reason why people are increasingly asking when is that a lot of this type of stuff ‘better clouds , ‘dynamic campaign’ etc have been ‘worked on’ for *years* with nothing to show. Therefore people start disbelieving Ed when they say ‘we’re working on it’ and start asking more specifically about it. Ed have themselves to blame for not being able to follow through with lots of stuff they’ve been ‘working on’. If people see things coming out of the pipeline that affect improvements to the core simulation they will be more willing to give the benefit of the doubt. So it is up to Ed to start delivering *before* people start cutting them more slack.

Really? Not important with the rest of the pressing issues DCS faces. If we’re going to talk graphical funnies - how about clouds that don’t spin in VR?

All I wanted to read in that was ‘we understand that our release of the F16 was not as good as it should have been, and that by moving developers off the hornet after we said it wouldn’t be effected, we disappointed a large element of our community, due to our poor communications. We’re *sorry* that we have caused frustration and apologise. Going forwards we will ensure the Hornet is finished with alacrity, and thereafter always be clear which plane/system has which order of precedence and will make sure that EA access timeframes are clearly communicated before accepting any money from you.’ The ‘thank you for your patience and understanding’ that keeps getting tacked on to Hornet comms has got to the point for me where I read it as patronising. I am yet to see ANY member of ED actually say the hardest word. Sorry. Would be a nice gesture if they did.

I wouldn’t if I were you... expect nothing then you can be pleasantly surprised with the scraps of development ED throw the Hornet while they beaver away at the Viper.

Great post. Sums up my thoughts more eloquently. I will not be purchasing any further Ed products until they have regained my faith, and that will not be a quick job.

You and I obviously disagree about levels of ‘fair’. No more to be said on the matter I feel

Seriously? You thing making Viper owners wait a couple Of weeks (haha) for a functionality that people have been calling for for a year and a half isn’t ‘fair’ - especially on those who do not have the Viper

I understand why you have chosen to do as you have done. However it is in my view and unacceptable thing to do. You know full well that many many hornet pilots have TWS as a single capability they have focused on, especially for MP. You know that there is already anger that ED has delayed features for the Hornet to prioritise getting the Viper to EA To now deploy TWS to the Viper *before* the Hornet, even if it is by a single OB, is in my mind optically unacceptable. I was going to buy the viper at such point the Hornet had been completed with pace. As a result of this development . I have decided I will now not purchase the Viper from you as I can only it appears influence EDs behaviour by closing my wallet. I will not purchase another module (I own most full fidelity jets) until I perceive that ED has changed its ways and respects the customers by giving features to those who have been waiting the longest. Maybe you will in time listen to that.

Thank you ed from bringing some much needed parity to spotting between 2d and VR gaming. Credit where it is due this has been a needed improvement.

Just next week? I very much hope it's more sustained than that! ;-) They need to complete the Hornet with pace now to show they can complete complex modules.

I think ED were expecting the F16 to be quite the windfall as it is a universally loved jet. That a few days before EA pre-order ended, and with the level of angst on hoggit due to taking resource away from the F18 - that Nick Grey came out and commented to try and smooth the ruffled feathers gives me the impression that the sales they expected to make just haven't materialised and they were in damage control mode. So while I'm not surprised the servers were full of F16s - I don't see that as indicative of a 'successful' pre-order sales volume. I will be watching with interest to see if ED will have taken the learnings from this, and make a good faith effort to react to the customer pressures (in terms of communication, completion of EA products in a good time, roadmaps, dealing with their customers fairly, and fixing core issues in the sim) to see if I will ever open my wallet to them again.

Agreed with OP. There has been a distinct slowdown on the Hornet, caused by the Viper and more complex systems. I am angry that the viper has released with a better a TGP than the Hornet has NOW and we waited for a year and a half. The viper has tws like SAM mode - Hornet doesn’t. Ed has taken advantage of people’s willingness to accept the indefensible, and I too sense a sea change with many people not buying the Viper (when it would have been an instability) purely out of principle. Ed need to up their game in setting out a clear roadmap with system order for each module, commit to a time period of EA prior to gold so customers have the facts before they order, set out redlines for systems prior to ea status (to prevent iff etc), and finally commit to never reducing team focus on one ea module purely to hit a ‘self imposed deadline’ to get another one to ea. I await with interest to see if ED can learn the lessons they NEEDED to learn from this debacle.

I would love for ED to answer this with clarity given the experience of the Hornet (And others). I expect that they will either ignore this part of the question or give a politicians answer. In fact i’d Like them to put out a general statement for all future modules on what they believe is a satisfactory length of time to deliver w final product so people can decide when to purchase.