S. Low

Start at 5:25. I didn't climb while his nose was on my tail. I changed the angle first by pulling into him, then went into a climb. This works on aircraft that don't have the same climb rate. My mistake, to my mind, is not understanding that the Mig 23 can climb just as well as the F-14.

Ran into a situation in the Cage the bear campaign where I was RTB and had two Mig 23s come up on my 6. My wingman crashed during the mission so I was alone at this point. At that point I wasn't aware of the Mig 23's capabilities and assumed the tomcat was much faster so I just pushed the throttle to maximum and tried to burn out of there. The two migs continued to close distance (thanks to Jester actually calling it out for me). So here's my situation: I'm at about 700-800 knots, roughly angels 5. 2 SP and 2 SW. 2 bandits closing on my 6. What's the play? Here's what I did, which failed: I dropped throttle to idle and turned right as hard as I could while retaining stability, to bleed airspeed and attempt a neutral merge. I spotted the migs coming around and puling on my 6. I nosed down to try and scrape them off on a nearby hill as I maneuvered around it. One did crash. Second one still danger close. I rolled to turn into the bandit, then I went back to afterburner try and then go vertical with the intent on using my climb rate to reduce his energy significantly and then I would roll out and be able to get on his 6. This didn't work. He maintained the climb and his angle and put guns into my engines. I had to eject and my 40 minute mission was a fail. I didn't understand two important things: 1)The Mig 23 has similar speed capabilities to the tomcat. If I knew this I would have turned into them sooner and had a neutral merge. 2) I attempted a vertical maneuver with a Mig 23 on my 6 not realizing that the Mig 23 has a similar climb rate. What else is wrong with this scenario? What would you do? Help me improve :D Also, yes I understand that AI has a cheating FM.

I posted in the bug section that the emergency gear and flaps aren't actually doing anything, and IronMike responded that the issue is known and on their list. I'm not sure about the hydraulic pump, but the other two emergency systems aren't working properly. As far as I know.

I had posited this before briefly, that perhaps the language was different in the late 60s /early 70s when the tomcat was manufactured and that's why "MI" power is labeled as an apparent range from idle to afterburner. This unsourced post on the etiology of the term "military power" seemingly supports this idea: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/44832/what-is-the-origin-of-the-term-military-power#44834

Regarding the video and the real throttle, there is a physical detent between at the idle position and the Mil position, so your muscle memory I think is a bit easier given that you have a physical stop. Plus you have a real aircraft giving you real vibrations and acceleration to figure out where your throttle is located. But that's all just an aside. I don't need to use the markings on the throttle to fly. I just need to know why they aren't accurate. Like I said, I'd like to know from a firsthand source for sure if the engineers marked "mil" power haphazardly because none of the rest of the switchology in that cockpit that I can see is done without deliberation Edit: and I do apologize as I realize this is sorta nitpicky. But if an engineer sent me a drawing of a washer that was the whole width of the page, but dimensioned it at like .125", I'd have to verify why his drawing looks so much different proportionally to his intended measurement just in case there wasn't an error somewhere.

Same. Except my kids are in the next room. Also, I want to upgrade my computer some more before hopping online

Thanks for the info in this thread. Was looking at getting the F-5 on sale and I'm glad to know about the radar ahead of time.

That's interesting! So the function of the sim throttle is exactly correct. Mil power is near the end of the travel path, and the 3 stages of AB are in the short area towards the top end of the travel path (after detent). Cool! So, back to the original original point: Neither the diagram on page 37 of the manual, nor the markings on the in-game throttle, reflect this throttle/engine behavior. Why?

So I discussed this at length with a very helpful fellow on discord and after reviewing everything he decided that its most likely that the in-game throttle was modeled purposely to have the in-game mil power occur higher up the throttle path and afterburner start after "max" line to assist with using standard hotas equipment as opposed to the real thing or high end equipment. I wonder if IronMike could confirm that the in-game throttle was designed this way and purposely doesn't match the diagram travel path?

I don't think I have this "certain" manual. But I'm American, if it's a public de-classified document I should be able to find it. What you describe makes sense and if it's modeled in game would account for what appears to be animation and engine response not corresponding to throttle markings and diagram.

Is afterburner always visible externally? Should the engines look to be "lit" immediately after the MIL position? Or does the effect only occur near gate?

Ok another thought entered my mind after re-examining the throttle diagram on pg 37 of the manual (1.0 version): is the throttle, or thrust, or engine animation bugged? The markings on the sim throttle correspond to the markings on the diagram. But what doesnt correspond is thrust behavior. I am not entering wet thrust immediately after the MIL mark as the diagram clearly states. I'm only entering afterburner at the very top end of the throttle travel path. Edit to add pic of the manual. Shows throttle and throttle diagram. As I understand it, afterburner should be visible from outside and should activate the heatblur custom in cockpit afterburner sound. Except neither afterburner lighting nor sound activate until around the MAX line at the top of the throttle path.

This happens in f14 and a-4 to my knowledge, as those are the only jets I own that I've done fighting with. I'll try to upload a track but I'll have to figure it out. It primarily happens like this: I enter a turn, I look over my shoulder and slightly up, I pull my nose around to match my eye position and realize my face is now like a foot under my HUD so I have to sit back to recenter before attempting to shoot Edit: this does not happen in il2 bos I don't think. I use the same profile for both games.

Yeah, mover's live commentary on the bfm tourney recently is what made me realize it's needed. The aircraft capabilities are only part of the equation. Human endurance limitations contribute a lot to what you can do in a fight. Not just g fatigue but I imagine exhaustion too. Like if you get into a bfm fight after a several hour sortie you might not be able to sustain as many g's as you could immediately after take off.

Thanks for trying to help clarify. I did post a pic of the throttle in the OP but I dunno if it worked or not.

I appreciate the response. I hope y'all can understand my confusion. I'm a cnc machinist and a philosophy student, not an aviator by trade. My mind works a certain way... So when I see the throttle marked " Mil" at the halfway point, and see terminology state that "mil" is max dry thrust, but my throttle doesnt translate max dry thrust until the "max" line, it becomes a large tick on my brain because there's a contradiction here. Is the f14 throttle mislabeled? I'm willing to accept this, but I'd like a definite answer lol. Is it mislabeled in the sim? Or was in sloppily labeled in the aircraft? Is there a real world manual I can read to find the answer? Edit: I understand your logic that it could be labeled in that position for ease of reading, so as not to have "mil" marked next to "max", but I'm just wondering if that's truly the case. Just seems odd to me because things are quite deliberately designed on an aircraft. The placement of switchology is quite logical given what systems you use on the ground typically vs in the air typically, in conjunction with which hand should use them. So to have a sloppy throttle label seems odd

So your position is the sim throttle was labeled incorrectly? Or was the lingo different when the tomcat was developed? I have one guy saying military power describes the range from idle to Max, and others saying it only describes the max dry thrust. The diagrams support the latter, but the throttle supports the former. This is why I'm asking lol. Also I do look at the throttle from time to time since I have no detent.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand yet. Why do the markings on the F-14 sim throttle not match what you're saying? And why is Punk's description of military power and "buster" contradictory to what you're saying?

My mind is trying to calculus this and I'm basically crashing and burning. NATOPS says the cat throttle's "mil" mark means where the detent starts. Which decent? The one from off to idle, or from dry to wet? If you look at the tomcat throttle in the sim, it's marked off, idle, mil, and max. Off to idle is a very small travel path and thankfully has a simulated detent. Idle to Max is dry thrust, and appears to be labeled as mil power for the entire travel path. AB kicks in just after max and is also a very small travel path but has no detent simulated. I understand what's happening in relation to the markings on the actual sim throttle, but it's not matching diagrams or lingo..... Making me a tad confused. Punks description at least matches the cockpit

Option 1) Mil power is maximum throttle before lighting afterburner, which is maximum dry thrust. Option 2) Mil power is any throttle position between idle and max. Buster is maximum dry thrust. Max power is afterburner wet thrust. Gate is maximum afterburner wet thrust. The F14 sim throttle is labeled and matches option 2. However the diagram of the real throttle "seems" to support option 1. Punk says it's option 2. I assume he has knowledge of this. I don't know. I'm going with what he said until there's a different argument presented.

Ok cool, that helps. Mil power is any setting between idle and afterburner/wep. Thanks!

But do you see here that MIL power is about 1/3 of the way up the travel path? Maybe about halfway actually. Afterburner doesn't light until after the Max power line and is only a small portion of the throttle travel path at the top (at least in the sim cockpit). This doesn't seem to match the diagram you provided. According to wikipedia: "An engine producing maximum thrust wet is at maximum power, while an engine producing maximum thrust dry is at military power.[2]" So... ... .... I'm confused still. There is quite a range of throttle travel between the mark "Mil" and the mark "Max" in the F-14 cockpit. That can't ALL be military power, since maximum dry thrust isn't achieved until you throttle up to right at (or just before) the Max line.

Il2 recently implemented this. It seems to work "ok", but I only tried it once since I'm too busy with DCS :) It should be implemented here though. With flight models and weapon systems pretty accurate, it feels arcadey to sustain 7 g's indefinitely. Just pick an average or slightly above average us pilot performance with sustained g's endurance and then add that, along with a recovery phase

As I understand it, "mil" power means "military power" and refers to throttle position at its highest just before afterburner. In the tomcat cockpit however, the throttle is marked "mil" about a 1/3 of the way up, and then "max" just before afterburner. Am I reading this incorrectly, or was the lingo different when the Cat was developed?

When I'm dogfighting, especially guns only, I'm looking out of the canopy most of the time and constantly changing my view angle. A lot of the time when I return to looking forward I find that I have suddenly turned into a very small person and am embedded in the seat looking up at the hud or even the stick. If I then lean back it'll reset to a normal position. Attached a couple pics of the A-4 cockpit view position in this situation. Anyone have any idea what I can change to deal with this? Should I severely reduce the Z-axis (head zoom) of the tracking since I use in-game zoom anyways? I can re-create this position without dogfighting. Lean forward, look up, while looking up lean back, then look down. Suddenly you're antman. Very silly. edit: spelling, words