Guns Hitting Power

In Bf-109, full realism, killing power of guns (both simultaneously) seems not too effective against Mustang on the DoW server.

Compare to Fw-190, full realism, against Mustang on the Korea server which at 200 meters and about a 10 round burst does quite nicely.

Bf-109 is still early beta, Fw-190 is final release.

Hope the guns' effectiveness improves.

Granted, cannon rounds drop significantly with range.

If it is not the guns, then it is me!

I have made multiple tests with the machine guns only (against 1 P51D)

i takes quite a lot of those to take it down.

on the other hand with both canon and machine gun sometimes one good hit and the tail wears off.

So I am mixed about that... Sometimes it takes just few hit in a single pass, there lots of vids in the "best replay page" look at 9./JG27 DavidRed's one that go in this way.

sometimes it takes the whole load to take down a plane...

Also the range is quite short as well, but it might be realistic.

the thing for me is to have have several triggers for all the weapon that is annoying, but that's for another thread...

It's not you diehard. Search otto's posts: downing the P-51D (human or AI) sometimes requires a half-dozen 30mm hits or more.

And before anyone says it... whether it is a damage model issue is immaterial. We just want to see the 30mm do what it should!:book:

We just want to see the 30mm do what it should

I'm sure everyone does. But regardless, if it's a DM problem then _that_ needs fixing, not the guns. Sorry, just had to say it ;)

Judging from the highly varying results I get I have the impression that it's mainly a problem with the DM but it's really hard to come to a conclusion just because of how inconsistent my results are.

If I get good hits on the fuselage one or two bursts with the MGs is usually enough to take out an AI P-51D and I have killed quite a few AI P-51D's with just 1-3 30mm hits on the fuselage although the one hit kills are almost always pilot kills.

However, the wings of the aircraft seem to take way more hits then they should be able to. For example: I have peppered wing roots of AI P-51Ds with 30mm shells and MG fire in many dogfights in the past and the P-51D just kept on flying with smoke and fuel coming from the wing but no noticeable performance impact. This is something I see all the time. I've had ACMI tracks that showed 7-8(!) 30mm hits within a pretty small area on the wing close to the fuselage and the P-51 just kept on flying.

The few times I flew the Bf 109 in MP I only scored 3 kills but my first impression was that the guns and the cannon are very powerful.

One kill was just a quick MG burst that killed the pilot, then I killed an engine with a short MG burst forcing the pilot to bail and lastly a kill where the P-51D just exploded after a few 30mm hits (also Pilot kill). The first impression I got was that it's very powerful armament but I have not flown enough multiplayer in the Bf 109 to have a good impression about the damage it does to human players with ASM, especially because all my 3 kills where with hits on the fuselage.

Well, the Mk-108 was analysed during the war and it was found that one to three hits should be enough to put a single engined fighter out of action.

That said, damage in real life is a lot more probabilistic than the hit-point system we're used to (e.g. exactly what form of damage did that wing spar take? vs. how many hits did the wing take?) - so sometimes the Mk-108 shouldn't take down a plane immediately and sometimes machine gun fire should...

Btw. This is a strong reason to prefer flying 1941 or earlier ...less high velocity cannons means longer dogfights with more close range maneuvering (rather than conserving energy and firing a few longer bursts at range as is the case in 1942 and later).

I found this document on another forum:

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA800394

It estimates hitting power of german 30mm 108 vs a p47 aircraft.

"A" tipe kill is : the aircraft goes down in the next five minutes.

"B" tipe kill is : the aircraft can't return to home base if the base is 2 hours flight time or more away.

This last image shows that the damage done by german 30mm is mostly structural damage.

Sometimes in the game a p51 get's hit in the tail by 30mm a few times and nothing. And than i hit it once with 0.50 mm from both nose mg's and the tale brakes off.

The damege model works by counting Hit points i think.

When gunpods are going to be available i will be one happy panda.

No. You'll be a happy panda when the DM gets a thorough overhaul ;)

It's been stated before that it's an issue with the AI damage model. Against player controlled P-51s the 30mm cannon is very effective, most of the time 1 hit takes a P-51 down in my experience, sometimes but rarely 2-3 is needed which is working as it should imo.

Bounder: exactly.

I drive the Stang exclusively. I'm not a very good pilot, so I get hit quite a bit.

From my perspective, a couple hits does a lot of damage. Then again, I present a good target, so most hits are good hits - and they kill the plane.

I know from talking with vets, that placement is key. If you don't hit vital structure, you don't cause vital damage. Assuming your three hits will knock a plane out of the sky is silly if you're passing through sheet metal skin and air. You have to hits structure or critical equipment /pilot.

:shrug: A lot of things are blamed on components other than the attacking pilot. just sayin....

A lot of things are blamed on components other than the attacking pilot. just sayin....

Back in the days of yore, flying another sim, there were lots of folks blaming the modeller for every adversity encountered. And yet it never entered their tiny minds that said adversities may actually have had more to do with their OWN personal deficiencies than the planes modelled! No, it was always "my plane porked and yours über" over and over - blech :mad:

But some of that just comes with the territory still, I think. Take any competetive environment and what you'll get is people whining! But a good developer just ignores all that crap and carries on of course...