AA Tactics for Ka-50: Heli Chase

Hello,

Last day I was able to shoot down a Huey with my Ka-50 and only using cannon in "Aircraft mode" and using the helmet mounted device.

I first locked on the heli using ther Shkval...It's quite hard at the beginning, but if the heli flues straight ahead it's not that hard...

I was wondering if my bullets could follow the enemy helo path, and it did...

However I could not shoot it down with rockets, or I would have to anticipate the heli path, and the Ka-50 was not built for that purpose...

I wonder if you have any advice regarding shooting down enemy aircraft and helicopters at low altitudes and how to shoot enemy AA "under" the Ka-50 (for example when flying at high altitude and the enemy heli/aircraft is flying very low)...Is it hard to shoot down fast flying planes (like the Su-25 or even jet fighters?) As long as the plane is locked using the Shkval...

Also, please don't say I'm crazy, but I thought about this in order to avoid enemy missiles...Loop turn (only above 150 meters or crash possible)...

The enemy missiles can't follow the Ka-50 is high g acrobatics like that...

Finally, I saw a great video on the net of an emergency training heli landing ( with collective at idle). I think it was with a Robinson.

The pilot was at 1500 feet and put collective at idle:

He then went into a 360 rudder turn left while going down and the guy was over the airfield! I had never seen this before.Isn't that dangerous?

The heli was losing height quickly and could have gone into a spin/stall very easily..I guess US helo pilots use this in Iraq to avoid enemy ground fire and to land at dangerous airbases exposed to ground AA/fire...

I know that aircraft pilots take up very sharply in Iraq to avoid ground fire,and land at very steep angles/speed too, so I guess heli pilots might do the same....

Also, please don't say I'm crazy, but I thought about this in order to avoid enemy missiles...Loop turn (only above 150 meters or crash possible)...

The enemy missiles can't follow the Ka-50 is high g acrobatics like that...

The Ka50 is limited to what? 3Gs? And most AA missile are able to pull 9G+, so trying to outmanouver a missile is pretty crazy idea.

Dive, hard break, and run like hell (+flares if it is a IR sam).

I wonder if you have any advice regarding shooting down enemy aircraft and helicopters at low altitudes and how to shoot enemy AA "under" the Ka-50 (for example when flying at high altitude and the enemy heli/aircraft is flying very low)...Is it hard to shoot down fast flying planes (like the Su-25 or even jet fighters?) As long as the plane is locked using the Shkval...

Hit them while they are parked ;)

Shooting down a jet in air is near to impossible.

i once dodged a stinger. Pulled a hammerhead when it was close and saw it overshoot by like a foot.

The heli was losing height quickly and could have gone into a spin/stall very easily

Turning a helicopter with the rudder or descending quickly won't "stall" it so to speak, as helicopters can't stall. Individual blades can, because they are airfoils, but as long as you maintain RPM, you should be good. An aerodynamic spin begins from a stall, so helicopters can't do that either.

Trying a tight rudder turn in a fixed-wing is an entirely different story, though.

Never but never consider a helicopter an air asset in the way you consider a jet..!

Easiest way to shoot down aircraft is with the Vikhr in my opinion. If you can get close enough for cannon that would be second best. Rockets would be an absolutely lucky hit.

A 9-G missile and a 3-G aircraft doesn't mean the missile is more maneuverable in terms of path and turning circle. Something going very fast has to pull a lot of G's to make the same circle as something going slow.

In fact for a 300 m/s missile and a 55 m/s aircraft. 9G vs 3G the aircraft still has 40% of the turning circle radius of the missile.

And most AA missile are able to pull 9G+, so trying to outmanouver a missile is pretty crazy idea.

It's closer to 60-70g ;)

AIM-9X maxes at 50 G (which is probably in the boost phase with thrust vectoring). Let's assume that at the critical moment the missile is doing 40 G and 680 m/s (M2 sea level).

Aircraft is doing say, 2 G and 55 m/s (200 km/h).

r = v^2/a so the ratio of R-aircraft to R-missile is (55^2/2)/(680^2/40) or 1512.5/11560 or 13%. So the aircraft is capable of generating a turning circle 13% the radius of the missile. In space the aircraft is much more maneuverable.

The guidance of the missile is both its strong suit and its weak point. Predicting where the target is going to be is absolutely critical to a hit. The aircraft itself can't change its position very fast but can do very drastic things to the interception point. If I have a good 200-250 km/h of motion, some range, and some idea of where and when the launch was from, maneuvering to defeat a Hellfire or a TOW is pretty straightforward. AIM-9Ds from a Chaparral are more difficult but flares help there.

The best way to avoid fighters in a helicopter is fly close to ground, if possible between buildings and trees or short above them.

Engage a high performance aircraft in dogfight are suicide.

Vikhr worked for me on helos. Never tried jets. We are not living in the same world anyway, except for Su25 that sometimes attack us.

Forget about the trees for cover if you are facing IA. They can see through. Only working cover is behind buildings.

I don´t knew this!

Now is make sense..

I make a test mission this weekend.

Engage frigates from inside shore and more than one time the ship launch SAM´s with me behind trees.

If you want to shoot a target below that is at close range, lower your speed first to less than 100kph, then pull nose high to build some climb rate and immediately push it down and point it at the general direction of the target, take a snapshot using helmet sight and pull nose back to level. Repeat if necessary. Cage Shkval before snapshot so that its centered and slews faster to the target when you uncage it. This will work effectively only for stationary or very big and/or close targets as you don't have time to adjust lead.

Vikhrs are very good against aerial targets as long as the targets speed component perpendicular to you is not too high, ie. it's not flying left to right. I can't remember for sure but about 100kph is probably the max that the Vikhr can keep up with. The biggest problem with Vikhrs is that you can't take snap shots with it at targets above you. You can build up speed and then point your nose up to the target if it's close enough for the missile to reach the target before you run out of speed. Basically this requires pretty optimal and rare situation to be successful. If the target is roughly at the same altitude and coming at you inside Vikhrs range he's in big trouble.

You would have to have a missile going so slow that it's barely flying to outmaneuver it with a helicopter. Dodging missiles is hard in A-10 and still requires optimal conditions to be successful so I don't think it's possible even in theory. Except for Hellfires that are slow enough at max range that they can be dodged, in theory. But dodging would just make you easier target for follow up shot so better tactic would be to outrun it and then re-engage.

Spiraling dive is the fastest way to lose altitude in a helicopter. In straight dive you reach the maximum speed with relatively shallow dive angle. In spiral dive you can point your general direction of movement straight down and not go over the speed limit. This is perfectly safe as long as you don't exceed the maximum speed, at least in DCS. Of course you can disregard the max speed limit in Ka-50 and take a 500kph dive but the pullout is going to be hairy and possibly unsuccessful.

1. You're never going to outrun a missile or a jet in any helicopter(no matter how awesome the BlackShark is!).

2. If you know for sure there is fast movers around you, immediately get to cover and hover. If you are moving it's pretty much guaranteed you are already on there radar. If you are stopped in a hover, you won't be on their radar.

3. Always stay below 50m AGL, and close to cities for hiding and using the building as cover against incoming missles(No matter how many Gs an AIM9 can pull, it can turn corners around a building).

4. Using Vikhrs against fast movers is very possible, I have knocked several out of the sky.

a. You must be in a hover, or close to it.

b. HMS on, Laser on, AA mode on, TOT mode on, Burst Medium(Always send out 2 Vikhrs!).

c. YOU WILL NEVER HIT A FAST MOVER WHILE IT'S TURNING!

d. Let him come to you. Trust me they will every time! Once they have picked you up on radar and you go to hover, they will come check out the area because they lost you on radar.

e. It's best to get a Head-On or Rear hit on a fast mover, the Vikhr is fast but it doesn't maneuver well.

f. They get absolutely no warning when the Vikhr is heading there way.

g. It's always tempting to think you are going to outrun or out maneuver a jet, don't even try it. The helicopter is meant to be used much as a sniper is.

Hope some of this is useful.

Reaper6