kh-25ML issue DCS 1.2.723097

The Kh-25ML and the MPU are the exact same missile but one just is for radar sites right??

The Kh-25ML and the MPU are the exact same missile but one just is for radar sites right??

and ones flight path is akin to a thrown rock.

The Kh-25ML and the MPU are the exact same missile but one just is for radar sites right??

If the rocket motor is equal in both in RL than they have been tuned to fit the gameplay for the sake of fun.

I use the MPU very often and it behaves totally different from the clumpsy launching Kh-25ML.

I have recently used the ML with success, both Ka-50 and Su-25T, but altitude was in the fifteen hundreds + Meters, not slow and I closed in fairly dangerous. You cant use it against a well defended ship, you have to get far too close to launch, you are in big trouble way before you can launch.

Now reading that in RL it was never really approved for the Ka-50 totally changes my attitude towards ED regarding this. Leave it the way it is, it seems to be more realistic than it used to be ( before my Su-25T DCS time ).

Bit

* yes, if legally possible get the MWS/RWR working in the Ka. I dont need it often cause I fly real low but for transition and en route etc. this would be really helpfull.

and ones flight path is akin to a thrown rock.

Pretty much..

I did a test this morning with the MPU's and the ML's...

The Kh-25ml had a LA distance of 3.4nm (F10 map distance) and hit the target at about 760mph (F6 speed)

Where as the Kh-25MPU had a well within LA range of 12nm (F10 map distance) and hit the target at about 870mph (F6 speed)...

How does this make any sense? haha

Try releasing the MPU at 320 km/h and 200 m AGL and see how it perform.. :)

So what is the situation with our beloved KH-25 :( ? Two more weeks ?:music_whistling: :lol:

No just read above, it's not a bug, it's a "feature" because you can't fire a kh-25 in Kamov IRL. :)

I mean, even at 300 km/h ! Not fast enough, you have to be at least at 600 !

yup !

Feature !

Nothing broken ! (How could we think about something broken on this amazing simulator ? Dude ! Seriously !), nothing broken ,only features, features everywheeeere !

So, considering the high fidelity level of the Ka-50 simulation, and that you need speed to fire the Kh-25ML, let me give you the best way to make it realistically, without cheating, and just using the nice features of DCS BS2 ! (IRL lovers will love !) by :

-Climbing at 5000-5500m.

-Pulling down your collective.

-Pushing forward your cyclic.

-Falling at 90°

-Reaching 650 km/h without breaking anything (no joking :), but it needs training, I think guys that you won't get over 600 on your first try, my personnal best score is 617, but I'm sure it can go faster, it's a very well profiled helicopter after all :D )

-Then at this speed, you should be able to fire properly the Kh-25, as the Ka-50 flight model and engine gestion are very very accurate, there won't be anything unrealistic doing this ! :)

Or no.

No there shouldn't be any Kamov-50 anymore...

Nicolas

ps : We know ED that the Kh-25ML is not appropriate to a chopper, and that it won't hit a target at 20 km, but with such engine on a missile, I don't think its first step after being launched at 250 km/h would be to fall like a bomb without raping 5 centuries of physic sciences. Ah, and tell me, was your version of the Kamov-50 able to reach such speed without losing its rotor ? No ? You're saying that you modeled the cables in the wings but not an accurate resistance model ? And then you tell us that using Kh-25 on a Kamov is unrealistic ? A Kamov that you modeled to be able to reach Mach 0.55 ? Could we know more about your priorities ?

ppsfr : Flo mon gars, je sens la censure s'approcher à pas de loups, mais à force de tendre des perches en racontant des âneries pour expliquer leurs bourdes, il leur faudrait peut-être se souvenir que le simmeur DCS moyen a dépensé 100 balles mini dans leur simu, à peu près 400 dans notre cas :D

400 ?! Et le reste ?! Et faudrait peut être aussi qu'ils se souviennent que le simmer hardcore, même moyen, est tout sauf con comme un meuble. Et puis honnêtement, pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué...

So it is impossible the fire a kh25 irl from a ka-50 but they left us this missile. On the other hand, it is possible to fire the r73 but they don't want to because it was never fired irl?

I think they prefer to say it's not suitable on a Kamov-50 to do not have to fix it...

Going the easy way.........If they don't want to fix it, at least they can "reprogram" the missile as it was before...

No. If it's not possible to fire it from a Ka-50 IRL, what they should do is to "reprogram" it to disappear altogether. This is a sim, right?

They removed the Kh-41 from the Su-33 for the same reason, right?

They made the Kh-25s range so low there's hardly any reason to use it on anything now.

They made the Kh-25s range so low there's hardly any reason to use it on anything now.

No reason except that when it comes to demolishing structures, the Vikhr has a 10 kg warhead, and Kh-25 has a 90 kg warhead ?

On the range issue - The Great Oracle says the Vikhr has a range of 10km from a fixed wing aircraft & 8 from a helicopter.

Same source says the Kh-25ML has a range of 11Km launched from a fixed wing aircraft.

If you applied the same ratio - 80% of 11Km is 8.8.

With no forward airspeed in a Ka-50 you can currently launch the Kh-25 from about 7 km (& with >1500m altitude, you'll hit what you aim at).

That's 20% less than the straight comparison, but given that the Kh-25ML is a lot heavier & slower, that's not too surprising.

The Kh-25ml works as intended and it can be perfectly deployed from the ka50 platform.

It has advantages and disadvantages over the Vikr (depending on target and what is going on around that target).

In order to deploy the Kh25ml, your forward air speed must be above 50-60 kph and also fly at an altitude of no less than 250 meters. With greater speeds like 200-250kph you can deploy the missile from an altitude as low as 160-170m.

The missile is able to hit targets as far as 7000m away with those minimums but if you happen to fly at an altitude of 800m or above with a forward airspeed of 230kph or above then the missile is capable of hitting targets as far as 8000m away (launch override).

The Kh25ml cannot be launched from hover or very low airspeeds due to his fins and the way it leaves the rail. The way it leaves the rail is the ''free fall'' way. When in the first stage of ''free fall''

(rocket motor not ignited yet) the drag from the large fins cause the missile to rapidly point its nose down. Of course the fins will try to bring the missile nose up but there is not enough air to do this.

Then the rocket motor ignites while the missiles head is still pointing towards the ground...at some point the missiles has enough speed for the fins to work properly but the missile is already too low and remember that we are talking about a missile that is not capable of high g turns so... there is your rock-dart planted into the ground :D

Advantages and disadvantages over the Vkr.

Well you cannot really compare them because they are completely different missiles used for completely different reasons, but ill state some advantages over the Vikr..

1. It is a laser ''spot follower''. Can be deployed while moving AND turning at normal and high airspeeds as long as you keep the target locked, thus you can DEFEND while guiding the missile at the same time. Not possible with the ''beam rider'' Vikr.

2. Greater firepower than Vkr that is not exclusive towards armored targets (can be used against buildings, personnel and more), Vkr is strictly an armor penetrating device.

Please learn how to deploy it instead of asking ED to fix or remove it from the ka50.

If the information i gave you is not enough to make your long white stick hit targets, then i can upload a trk .

S!

No reason except that when it comes to demolishing structures, the Vikhr has a 10 kg warhead, and Kh-25 has a 90 kg warhead ?

 

On the range issue - The Great Oracle says the Vikhr has a range of 10km from a fixed wing aircraft & 8 from a helicopter.

Same source says the Kh-25ML has a range of 11Km launched from a fixed wing aircraft.

If you applied the same ratio - 80% of 11Km is 8.8.

With no forward airspeed in a Ka-50 you can currently launch the Kh-25 from about 7 km (& with >1500m altitude, you'll hit what you aim at).

That's 20% less than the straight comparison, but given that the Kh-25ML is a lot heavier & slower, that's not too surprising.

That'd be awesome if we could fire them from 11km on a fixed winged aircraft.. but we cant. Has a LA distance of about 4 if you want it to hit with any kind of speed... The mpu has a distance of that 11 - 12km

The Kh-25ml works as intended and it can be perfectly deployed from the ka50 platform.

 

It has advantages and disadvantages over the Vikr (depending on target and what is going on around that target).

 

In order to deploy the Kh25ml, your forward air speed must be above 50-60 kph and also fly at an altitude of no less than 250 meters. With greater speeds like 200-250kph you can deploy the missile from an altitude as low as 160-170m.

 

The missile is able to hit targets as far as 7000m away with those minimums but if you happen to fly at an altitude of 800m or above with a forward airspeed of 230kph or above then the missile is capable of hitting targets as far as 8000m away (launch override).

 

The Kh25ml cannot be launched from hover or very low airspeeds due to his fins and the way it leaves the rail. The way it leaves the rail is the ''free fall'' way. When in the first stage of ''free fall''

(rocket motor not ignited yet) the drag from the large fins cause the missile to rapidly point its nose down. Of course the fins will try to bring the missile nose up but there is not enough air to do this.

Then the rocket motor ignites while the missiles head is still pointing towards the ground...at some point the missiles has enough speed for the fins to work properly but the missile is already too low and remember that we are talking about a missile that is not capable of high g turns so... there is your rock-dart planted into the ground :D

 

Advantages and disadvantages over the Vkr.

Well you cannot really compare them because they are completely different missiles used for completely different reasons, but ill state some advantages over the Vikr..

 

1. It is a laser ''spot follower''. Can be deployed while moving AND turning at normal and high airspeeds as long as you keep the target locked, thus you can DEFEND while guiding the missile at the same time. Not possible with the ''beam rider'' Vikr.

2. Greater firepower than Vkr that is not exclusive towards armored targets (can be used against buildings, personnel and more), Vkr is strictly an armor penetrating device.

 

 

 

Please learn how to deploy it instead of asking ED to fix or remove it from the ka50.

If the information i gave you is not enough to make your long white stick hit targets, then i can upload a trk .

 

S!

Very good info Talig. Will try this tonight for sure. Thanks.

Since it's a spot follower, can you buddy-lase with another KA-50 lasing a target and you firing the missile?

Since it's a spot follower, can you buddy-lase with another KA-50 lasing a target and you firing the missile?

Yes

2. Greater firepower than Vkr that is not exclusive towards armored targets (can be used against buildings, personnel and more), Vkr is strictly an armor penetrating device.

this is factually incorrect. The Vikhr has a fragmentation sleeve on it which makes it highly effective against soft targets. Fragmentary effects are not correctly modeled in DCS, but the addition of HE splash damage has corrected for that in practical application.

this is factually incorrect. The Vikhr has a fragmentation sleeve on it which makes it highly effective against soft targets. Fragmentary effects are not correctly modeled in DCS, but the addition of HE splash damage has corrected for that in practical application.

The 9k121 is an antitank missile, period.

The fragmentation sleeve (together with a proximity fuse) is there to enable the missile to be used against airborne targets.

Blast radius and destructive power of this charge is no bigger than 3-4 hand grenades.

It is not ''highly'' effective against soft targets.

It was not designed for this purpose and also the price of the missile prohibits you from firing it against a couple of soldiers or a rusty UAZ truck.

That is why you are equipped with cheap rockets and a sniper cannon plus 2 types of rounds. :smilewink:

Fixed wing platforms can drop a cheap general purpose bomb and deal 20 times more ''open area'' damage than a Vikhr.

R27r has a blast fragmentation warhead which by the way is 20kg heavier than the Vikhr s warhead.

It seems as capable as the S-130f , so lets just flip the damn launch override and use it as a long range AtoG rocket.. (I'm definitely going to try this tonight :D)

Nice knowledge thanks:thumbup:

Can't give rep blah blah............Sorry its deserving +1 :)