Landing Gear Suspension too stiff

Bug: The landing gear seems to be too stiff when compared to real footage.

Can I reproduce it 100%: yes

How to reproduce/ description:

No matter how hard i try to touch down, i never can get the suspension to move like i can see it in real footage. In the following clip there are 2 carrier landings of the F-14 at 3:44 and 3:54. And in both you can see how the main landing gear compresses very far, almost to the max and then bounces back up and down until it settles and also the front wheel dives in very deep and almost hits the mechanical stop of the suspenion.

In the track file i attached i made a automatic carrier landing and there the main landing gear doesn't bounce at all and the front wheel suspension doesn't dive in so much as in the video.

Result: The landingbehavior is at the moment a bit boring as the plane isn't rocking/bouncing/pitching at touchdowns as it should be. This takes away a lot of charme of the carrier landings and also from normal landings.

The FC3 Planes like the SU-33 have a very good suspension model at the moment as can be seen in this clip at 3:50

Would it be not possible to adapt the suspension model of the F-14 a bit to the SU-33 for example, as it almost has the same landing gear mechanics?

Maybe its also a DCS Problem because the F/A-18C is suffering from the same problem, but even worse than in the Tomcat

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260545

DCS Version: OpenBeta 2.5.6.50979

F-14 Carrier Landing.trk

Yeah I think this is planned for later down the road. Been this stiff since it came out more than a year ago. Also noticeable when taxiing.

Hello, i wanted to ask if it is still planed to rework the Landing Gear Mechanics. The F-18 Hornet should get an Updated Flight Model (the roadmap says it is already in internal testing).
Will it happen for the tomcat too?

On 3/8/2023 at 4:50 AM, Smith said:

Hello, i wanted to ask if it is still planed to rework the Landing Gear Mechanics. The F-18 Hornet should get an Updated Flight Model (the roadmap says it is already in internal testing).
Will it happen for the tomcat too?

An improvement to ground handling will come in the next patch!

Da*n! next patch's gonna be a bonanza of new features! 

I might be able to post a preview here, it’s just a modification of Config.lua so it’s non-proprietary and already publicly accessible in the Mods folder. Not sure if it would pass IC however.

The nose strut will now move similar to this:

Power to taxi is also dramatically reduced.

Disclaimer: This is not representative of the final product. Testing still in progress.

Known issues: braking effectiveness and anti-skid problems

Install this inside Mods, F14/Entry

Config.lua

The new suspension model is awesome, many thanks! Feels way better now and you don't have to work the throttles constantly to taxi. Strut compression on trapping is now actually there. I tried to capture it but the VR resolution may be to bad to see it.

Agreed, the new suspension is way better. Other than breaking IC... which brings me to... Do we know when the next patch is? (and I'm assuming that's in the patch... completely off-topic, but it would be nice to get that extra pilot outta my seat someday too... )

The latest changes above didn't make the coming patch, which is next Weds I believe. A majority of the gear improvements (reduced power to taxi, etc) should arrive on Weds, but the nose won't bounce as much until the subsequent update.

This is a fantastic improvement.  However it should be noted that you really need to have an analogue axis for this to work as it should IRL.  I have a VIRPIL Controls T-50 CM3 throttle and  Thrustmaster T-Flight Stick X and unfortunately there are no suitable analogue axis for brakes with these two.  Up 'til now I have simply used a button for brakes, but it's obviously all-or-nothing in that case and the new and improved nose strut will now quickly bottom out with almost any forward momentum.  I guess the time has come to invest in pedals, unless someone has a better suggestion?

The spring-loaded thumb joystick on my throttle (which I currently use for DLC, (on the up/down axis), but tried using the left/right axis for brakes), is the closest suitable candidate, but it of course springs back to centre upon release; meaning the brakes spring back to 50% application.  I've fiddled with deadzones, X,Y saturations etc, but I can't make it useable.

3 hours ago, JupiterJoe said:

...<snip> I guess the time has come to invest in pedals, unless someone has a better suggestion?

 

I don't think there is a better suggestion, pedals with toe-brakes is a huge step up, from binary buttons and/or the rotating axis on your joystick. No question. I don't think you'll be disappointed in that move.

Thank you.

Is there anyway to make a button push progressive (0-100% accumulating over 1 - 1.5 secs perhaps), in the config file?  It could save me 100 Euros for a set of pedals  

On 5/10/2023 at 1:24 AM, fat creason said:

The nose strut will now move similar to this:

Power to taxi is also dramatically reduced.

Disclaimer: This is not representative of the final product. Testing still in progress.

Known issues: braking effectiveness and anti-skid problems

 

Install this inside Mods, F14/Entry

Config.lua 14.32 kB · 34 downloads

 

 

Oh thank you so much that you address this isue. I was waiting for so many years to have a good and bouncy suspension.

I checked the file and it looks like you only changed the bounciness of the front suspension.

I changed the values of the main landing gear a bit, so that they are compressing like in this video from 3:25-3:30:

https://youtu.be/U2dYSDos2lI?t=205

[YOUTUBE]U2dYSDos2lI?t=205[/YOUTUBE]

I will continue tweaking it a bit until i think its good.

Thank you so much for this file

Config.lua

@SmithThe front strut 'EXTD/KNEEL' wouldn't work for me with your config file.  The mains now compress using your file though, which is great to see.  I guess the Devs hadn't worked-out the kinks yet either, hence why it was just nose-strut for the 'official' release.

The dev-provided config mod is amazing! One weird thing over multiplayer though is that while the nose strut "bounce" is animated, the nose doesn't bounce along with it. On cat shots and traps you'll see the nose strut bouncing up and down while the nose remains static.

30 minutes ago, Nealius said:

The dev-provided config mod is amazing! One weird thing over multiplayer though is that while the nose strut "bounce" is animated, the nose doesn't bounce along with it. On cat shots and traps you'll see the nose strut bouncing up and down while the nose remains static.

Are you able to provide video of this?

I tweaked the config a bit more. Maybe we are getting there.

I made a video that i hope makes it clear what i am looking for with a good suspension physics.
 

@JupiterJoe I tried the EXTD/KNEEL with my config and the plane went up and down so i m not sure what didn't work with you. Maybe you can try my new config file. I think its already quite good. Maybe i can do tomorrow more testing as i don't have too much time at the moment.

Config.lua

10 hours ago, JupiterJoe said:

Are you able to provide video of this?

Slowed down to 50%.

In the VR live recording, you will see the nose bounce: compression on deceleration, nose up, nose down, nose up, nose down towards the end of the deceleration, nose up/down as the cable drags the aircraft rearward.

Constrast with the external view from the server's .trk file. The strut compression animation reflects what the player experienced, however this animation is not translated to the aircraft's nose for some reason, as the nose remains in a compressed angle throughout the deceleration process, only coming up when the cable drags the aircraft rearward. Also note the gear crompresses while floating above the deck for the initial deceleration.

5 hours ago, Nealius said:

Constrast with the external view from the server's .trk file.

Server's tracks may not have the same data as local ones do.

2 minutes ago, draconus said:

Server's tracks may not have the same data as local ones do.

Local ones don't work at all. Additionally, this is what other clients would see live over a multiplayer session. 

3 minutes ago, Nealius said:

Local ones don't work at all.

That's not entirely true.

3 minutes ago, Nealius said:

Additionally, this is what other clients would see live over a multiplayer session.

Fair enough, both need fixing then.

I'm not sure the mains should be bottoming out at max trap weight.  There should still be something in reserve, otherwise it'd be a hell of an impact on the airframe, not to mention the crew.

1 hour ago, JupiterJoe said:

I'm not sure the mains should be bottoming out at max trap weight.  There should still be something in reserve, otherwise it'd be a hell of an impact on the airframe, not to mention the crew.

 

There might be a little left in reserve, or possibly a variable thickness coil (or equivalent) requiring more force to bottom out the suspension, but if you look at Smith's video above, that shows a real Tomcat landing, and at about the 22 second mark, that looks pretty darn close to bottoming out to me... Also, there's a reason there's a max trap weight, it's the max!

I agree the lower part of the strut appears to compress to max, nose and mains.

Could be a two-stage shock-absorber, as you suggest.   Perhaps there's an upper half that also compresses, at a higher pressure?  The main struts are after all huge. They must be about 5 foot tall, all told.  

As I've said, if the plane was maxing out suspension travel every time it landed it would quickly become a serious problem.

Anyway, it's great to see so realistic physical behaviour being modelled.