Cold War 1947 - 1991 *** Limited Edition ***

2 hours ago, Zachrix said:

 

This is not raising the difficulty level, this is ensuring that our Tactical Commanders have the ability to turn off SAM radars to stop anti-radiation attacks. This is not going to make anything harder other than for the person (Kirk) that is requesting this. Since only Blue has the ability of attacking SAMs, I think this is an essential part to the air defense of red and gives us a tiny bit of tenacity in the fight.

 

Well, Blue F-16C's and F-18C's were struggling enough with AAA's, Strelas and Tor's anyway. Having access to Red SAM sites would encourage at least one guy because there is always that one guy to assign waypoints to some SAM sites and move them even closer to the borderline. And while dealing with that you want Blue to scan and look for Red tanks which are the primary targets? I don't think so. Most Red tanks in all the previous 5 rounds were destroyed by Merkavas mainly. If it's just switching off and on some radar sites, by all means. But there is always that one guy...

Worth bearing in mind that both Hornet and Viper have got some pretty substantial HARM updates since last time, and it doesn't take a 104th member to work out that they can just lob the things from the west shore without ever leaving their own SAM coverage. Allowing radars to be turned off and units to be moved is going to be pretty essential if red are to have any operational SAMs left after the 30 minute mark, especially considering even AI Strelas will turn their radars on and make themselves easy targets.

Viggen CTD after 2.7 update. What does this mean for tomorrow limited edition?

14 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

Well, Blue F-16C's and F-18C's were struggling enough with AAA's, Strelas and Tor's anyway. Having access to Red SAM sites would encourage at least one guy because there is always that one guy to assign waypoints to some SAM sites and move them even closer to the borderline. And while dealing with that you want Blue to scan and look for Red tanks which are the primary targets? I don't think so. Most Red tanks in all the previous 5 rounds were destroyed by Merkavas mainly. If it's just switching off and on some radar sites, by all means. But there is always that one guy...

14 hours ago, rossmum said:

Worth bearing in mind that both Hornet and Viper have got some pretty substantial HARM updates since last time, and it doesn't take a 104th member to work out that they can just lob the things from the west shore without ever leaving their own SAM coverage. Allowing radars to be turned off and units to be moved is going to be pretty essential if red are to have any operational SAMs left after the 30 minute mark, especially considering even AI Strelas will turn their radars on and make themselves easy targets.

Both of you have great points here, I'll try to see if there's a way of keeping the sites static as the only intention is to get the radar to turn off to avoid a 100km+ harm. generally we dont need to move the units as the INS degrades over the flight that if the radar goes off in the first third it misses by a good enough degree (bout 50m average at ~20m from further testing). If it goes off in a loft the missile wont come down unless its in PB

EDIT: you can script the SAM sites to not move whilst keeping them controllable. First, add a task to each SAM site that sets the task "Hold" which will halt the vehicles movement

Then have a continuous action running that does a AI_TASK_SET for each SAM site and runs the hold task for that SAM site

the sites are still able to fire but cannot move, save for the very lucky times they will move 1m then halt as the script runs.

This should allow you to set the SAM sites to be controllable without worrying about them being moved. I'm not sure of the overhead but so long as the tasks are bundled under one trigger it seems fine.

If there are open slots I would love to join in!

Is the event now taking place on Friday or on Saturday?

On 4/12/2021 at 4:03 PM, Alpenwolf said:

The mission is coming back online this Friday, on the 16th of April, starting around 1800 zulu.

 

- The mission is heavily dependant on teamwork! Use SRS for in-game communications and be a useful teamplayer!

- You can reserve a slot for yourself and/or friends/squadron members.

 

Mission's changes' log:

- Tanks on both sides are now part of small group tanks. (This should reduce the amount of work for ground warfare operators.)

- Warehouses fixed.

- Player's and AI's waypoints optimised.

- Numbers of available aircraft and their weapons optimised:

  - Beirut airbase: 24 x MiG-21's (instead of 36)

  - Kiryat Shmona airbase: 12 x MiG-21's (instead of 16)

  - Damascus airbase: 24 x F-14A's, 36 x F-5's (instead of 54) and 24 x MiG-29A's (note that there are 2 x F-14A slots and 4 x MiG-29A slots)

  - King Hussein airbase: 36 x MiG-21's (note that F-14A, MiG-29A and F-5 pilots can land and leave their aircraft at King Hussein's)

  - Ramat David airbase: 36 x F-15C's and 36 F-16C's (instead of 36 and 24)

  - Theodore Roosevelt: 24 x F-18C's

  - 36 x AIM-54A-MK47 and 40 x AIM-120B missiles (the latter only available for the F-18C's)

  - F-14A's have also access to AIM-7M and AIM-9L missiles.

  - F-15C's, F-16C's and F-18C's have also access to AIM-7M, AIM-7MH, AIM-9L and AIM-9M missiles.

  - MiG-29A's have only access to R-27R, R-27T and R-60M missiles.

  - MiG-21's and F-5's have access to their all-aspect AA missiles.

 

Agh... damn it... Always bad timing for me.... (both days) ;( Might catch the tail end of the missions

8 hours ago, TeufelHunden said:

If there are open slots I would love to join in!

Open for everybody. Just make sure you're on comms using SRS, please.

2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Is the event now taking place on Friday or on Saturday?

 

Both. 1800 zulu. So you could go Red one night and then Blue the other if you want.

2 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

Both. 1800 zulu. So you could go Red one night and then Blue the other if you want.

Oh, cool, altough we will probably only be able to attend on Saturday.

25 minutes ago, m4ti140 said:

 

You seem to be missing the point here: it's PB specifically that is the problem. With PB they can launch HARMs at completely inactive sites once they find them, and spread them so that the moment you turn on radar, you'll have harms that were launched blind and that you couldn't see coming suddenly getting an update on your exact location while in final stages of flight, at which point even if radar is turned back off they won't have time to drift. Moving the radar is essential at this point to avoid the missile.

 

You make a good point, However having the sites off for a long period of time isn't a major issue: The tac view for last round on this showed the closest SA-6 site was fired on once and was disabled, never having fired. While ideally we would want to move the sites, being able to only turn them on when the hostile jets are overhead is better than nothing. plus, holding 2 or so airframes dedicated to SEAD on that site is 2 not doing a2a.
Second, disregarding a point simply because it might be superseded by a different one is generally bad practice. If it is going to be negated, why worry about it being added? Better to have the capacity rather than simply disregard it. 

@AlpenwolfMission is broken, no missiles for hornet and no sparrows for f14. Is there a quick fix?

1 hour ago, Zachrix said:

@AlpenwolfMission is broken, no missiles for hornet and no sparrows for f14. Is there a quick fix?

 

 

Still working on it as of now and running tests with LazzySeal. I'm almost sure it has something to do with the upgraded Syria map because F-14A's have no problem loading Sparrows in e.g. Caucasus missions.

Update:

After running some tests with LazzySeal we found out that the F-18C has problems getting some weapons from the warehouses on aircraft carriers and airbases regarding any map. Other aircraft were able to grab their missiles. Surprised beta testers didn't notice that!

With that, the mission stays offline until the F-18C bug is fixed.

3 Things:

1. Thanks to Alpen for taking the time to do this incredibly short notice patching to the mission for tomorrow, I know a lot of people who would just delay a week rather than getting on with the fixes, Should be great to fly again RIP warehousing

2. Low hanging items while the mission is being altered: Can we get 2 more Tac commanders on Red? We were planning on fielding at least 3 of us in TAC slots for the mission

3.To those saying the controllable SAM's is unneeded: Two short caps from the tac view of the warm up:

https://gyazo.com/c0a37f4dff06116168564c5afccd5f4c

As you can see the 16 fired from far outside the range of  the SA-6, and unfortunately for them it was configured wrong and didn't track. However, by the time that SA-15 fired on the missile, it was already over the site and, if configured correctly, would have been a knockout for the entire site.

https://gyazo.com/29f273209a10ec89a71c6403ea672fe5

In this one he enters the stated RMAX for the SA-6 site. However firing at this range would never have hit the 16 anyways as he turns off immediately. They are able to fire their HARM rather safely at the site and destroy it.

Being able to turn on and off the sites in both of these scenarios would have saved the sites, or at least forced the adversary aircraft close enough for the site to have a chance to engage. Even if they are constantly suppressed by hostile airframes with PB HARMS, it forces one or two airframes out of the main fight trying to ensure the sites never go active.

The range of the HARM currently against SAM sites isn't the problem, the problem is currently the DCS AI do not do what was realistically done to counter this massive range advantage: by turning off their radars or even moving the entire site (albeit rarely in actual combat, more in the downtime). The worry about moving the sites closer is valid, I wouldn't want to fly against a team who rolled all their long rage sites right into the AO, however there are ways around this. 

I'd say that having them stationary to test first is a good starting point, then seeing whether PB makes that redundant still and thus some form of movement is realistically needed. I'm not sure what Alpen would want to start with but if left unchanged Red is going to get their ass handed to them where Blue can destroy all the red Air defences, and they are unable to respond against the patriots with aircraft due to lack of SEAD capable airframes and thus are left to play on a heavily asymmetric battle field..

14 minutes ago, P61 said:

So after that I spent some more time and saved track with simple mission. 

After I saved track F/A-18 rearming ability came back. I dunno WTF yet...

 

 

Unfathomably pog

15 hours ago, CAPT_Kirkpatrick said:

3 Things:

 

1. Thanks to Alpen for taking the time to do this incredibly short notice patching to the mission for tomorrow, I know a lot of people who would just delay a week rather than getting on with the fixes, Should be great to fly again RIP warehousing

 

2. Low hanging items while the mission is being altered: Can we get 2 more Tac commanders on Red? We were planning on fielding at least 3 of us in TAC slots for the mission

 

3.To those saying the controllable SAM's is unneeded: Two short caps from the tac view of the warm up:

https://gyazo.com/c0a37f4dff06116168564c5afccd5f4c

As you can see the 16 fired from far outside the range of  the SA-6, and unfortunately for them it was configured wrong and didn't track. However, by the time that SA-15 fired on the missile, it was already over the site and, if configured correctly, would have been a knockout for the entire site.

 

https://gyazo.com/29f273209a10ec89a71c6403ea672fe5

In this one he enters the stated RMAX for the SA-6 site. However firing at this range would never have hit the 16 anyways as he turns off immediately. They are able to fire their HARM rather safely at the site and destroy it.

 

Being able to turn on and off the sites in both of these scenarios would have saved the sites, or at least forced the adversary aircraft close enough for the site to have a chance to engage. Even if they are constantly suppressed by hostile airframes with PB HARMS, it forces one or two airframes out of the main fight trying to ensure the sites never go active.

 

The range of the HARM currently against SAM sites isn't the problem, the problem is currently the DCS AI do not do what was realistically done to counter this massive range advantage: by turning off their radars or even moving the entire site (albeit rarely in actual combat, more in the downtime). The worry about moving the sites closer is valid, I wouldn't want to fly against a team who rolled all their long rage sites right into the AO, however there are ways around this. 

I'd say that having them stationary to test first is a good starting point, then seeing whether PB makes that redundant still and thus some form of movement is realistically needed. I'm not sure what Alpen would want to start with but if left unchanged Red is going to get their ass handed to them where Blue can destroy all the red Air defences, and they are unable to respond against the patriots with aircraft due to lack of SEAD capable airframes and thus are left to play on a heavily asymmetric battle field..

 

So far we had 5 rounds and Red won 3 out of them. The two times Red lost (and it was very close) was due to incredible teamwork done by Blue, especially that one round with members of the 104th Phoenix occupying most Blue aircraft. It's not like we had a squadron ready to take on Blue yesterday nor one that is ready to do that today. It will be mostly solo fighters (unfortunately) and you can only hope they're on SRS and actually trying TOGETHER to figure out a way of winning the day. Making Red SAM sites even more difficult to destroy would only make it way easier for Red to break through with their tanks and capture the objective. I'm not basing this on assumptions but rather experience gathered from the 5 rounds. It's been months since the last round so before making any considerable changes like that I'd rather launch the mission as it is. Not saying implementing the idea of making SAM's controllable is not an option. Quite the opposite actually. However, only if the above mentioned conditions are met.

Again, it doesn't have to be a squadron. If a bunch of solo fighters who know each other from all the nights on the Cold War server or any other server decide to take on Blue (14 aircraft + cmdr slots), then by all means. Get the names of those players together and share them here in a quick post and the Blue coalition is entirely or partially yours, obviously depending on how many players sign up for the task. It's more crucial for Blue to have that high level of teamwork than it is for Red. Not saying it's not the case with Red.

I'll add more cmdr slots, no problem.

12 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

So far we had 5 rounds and Red won 3 out of them. The two times Red lost (and it was very close) was due to incredible teamwork done by Blue, especially that one round with members of the 104th Phoenix occupying most Blue aircraft. It's not like we had a squadron ready to take on Blue yesterday nor one that is ready to do that today. It will be mostly solo fighters (unfortunately) and you can only hope they're on SRS and actually trying TOGETHER to figure out a way of winning the day. Making Red SAM sites even more difficult to destroy would only make it way easier for Red to break through with their tanks and capture the objective. I'm not basing this on assumptions but rather experience gathered from the 5 rounds. It's been months since the last round so before making any considerable changes like that I'd rather launch the mission as it is. Not saying implementing the idea of making SAM's controllable is not an option. Quite the opposite actually. However, only if the above mentioned conditions are met.

 

Again, it doesn't have to be a squadron. If a bunch of solo fighters who know each other from all the nights on the Cold War server or any other server decide to take on Blue (14 aircraft + cmdr slots), then by all means. Get the names of those players together and share them here in a quick post and the Blue coalition is entirely or partially yours, obviously depending on how many players sign up for the task. It's more crucial for Blue to have that high level of teamwork than it is for Red. Not saying it's not the case with Red.

 

I'll add more cmdr slots, no problem.

 

Thanks for the explanation; I agree with going on this time without changes, I'm basing my thoughts off my experience on Blue flag and other servers. Granted here maybe the normal player base isn't as skilled with the modern stuff as they've proved to be with the cold war jets. But as you say, Lets wait and see what goes on next round and then I can ask about possible changes again afterwards.

So just for clarity: are we going to attempt it again today, or is it still postponed?

Enjoy your burger, Lazzy

I'll give it a shot tonight around 1730 zulu. Either it runs smoothly or not. If it's the latter, then I'll rotate the server and some other mission goes online.

Sorry I couldn't be available, Lazzy. Family time is above all.

Unfortunately no AIM7 sparrow for F14 loadout in Damascus, even though they are in inventory...