Creativ ALchemy and DCS BS

Few sound related questions:

1. Does installed Creative ALchemy (*) make a difference in DCS BS under Vista?
   
2. Does DCS BS take advantage of DirectSound 3D and/or EAX of any version?
   
3. If so - is there a way to configure these APIs settings? From what I've heard DCS BS sounds like it produces sound for 5.1 but on stereo speakers.
   

* ofcourse with the proper hardware ALchemy is designed for.

Edit:

Ok people, easy, easy! Phew, so much interest :)

I've got the recordings today and I've put them together in Audacity. It's synchronized quite well. Just choose the starting moment or selection and play muting one track to hear the other and so on.

First impressions - ALchemy:

• rattle sound more distinct and powerfull (more bass)
  
• some glitches, cracks...
  
• during fly-by views sounds are not cut-off so suddenly
  
• also during fly-by - nice "whistle" sound after heli pass; can bee checked on YT (Mi-24, german assesment or something)
  

EDIT:

"Side-by-side" comparison - Audacity 1.26 project - link updated

http://rs463l33.rapidshare.com/files/330065337/alchemyvsnoalchemy_vista_audacity_project.7z

Attention!

Open with Audacity 1.26 as 3.9 will delete data files!

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Nice work Bucic ;)

I'm interested...guess I'm the only person in the world with an X-fi card :D

I've just read up on ALchemy and it only makes a difference on Vista...is that correct?

I've just read up on ALchemy and it only makes a difference on Vista...is that correct?

ALchemy yes - Vista only, it replaces deleted DS3D/EAX with OpenAL

I'm building a system now for DCS, vista x64.

I'm wondering what to do about a sound card for it.

I was looking at x-fi options but hear mixed reviews

alot of people seem to like this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271001

any input apreciated.

TY sirs

Few sound related questions:

1. Does installed Creative ALchemy (*) make a difference in DCS BS under Vista?
   
2. Does DCS BS take advantage of DirectSound 3D and/or EAX of any version?
   
3. If so - is there a way to configure these APIs settings? From what I've heard DCS BS sounds like it produces sound for 5.1 but on stereo speakers.
   

* ofcourse with the proper hardware ALchemy is designed for.

 

Edit:

Ok people, easy, easy! Phew, so much interest :)

 

I've got the recordings today and I've put them together in Audacity. It's synchronized quite well. Just choose the starting moment or selection and play muting one track to hear the other and so on.

 

First impressions - ALchemy:

• rattle sound more distinct and powerfull (more bass)
  
• some glitches, cracks...
  
• during fly-by views sounds are not cut-off so suddenly
  
• also during fly-by - nice "whistle" sound after heli pass; can bee checked on YT (Mi-24, german assesment or something)
  

 

Audacity project

 

http://rapidshare.com/files/170449028/alchemyvsnoalchemy_vista.7z.html

10 downloads only so don't dl it if you won't/can't use Audacity.

Could you provide a guide to properly install and setup ALchemy for BS?

I'm building a system now for DCS, vista x64.

 

I'm wondering what to do about a sound card for it.

 

I was looking at x-fi options but hear mixed reviews

 

alot of people seem to like this card:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271001

 

any input apreciated.

 

TY sirs

AFAIK there is only 2 solutions solutions for vista.

It's ALchemy+X-Fi/Audigy2 and 3DSoundBack+RealtekHD.

So if you want correct 3D sound - you got limited choise :)

Nice work Bucic ;)

 

I'm interested...guess I'm the only person in the world with an X-fi card :D

I have an x-fi also. And, running Vista x64

Sooooo...did the copy of DCS BS for me hit the road already? :D

Could you provide a guide to properly install and setup ALchemy for BS?

Nothing more than what you can find on the internet.

• get Audigy/X-Fi :P and install:
  
• latest drivers
  
• OpenAL
  
• Creative Alchemy
  
• in Alchemy window choose the folder (not executable) with the black shark exe. Move created entry to the "supported side (right column)" and done.
  

Nothing fancy IMO. I told the black shark bloke to do it like this and appearently it worked.

Things to check in the future:

• Alchemy creates configuration file in the selected folder. There are few parameters to adjust but frankly I doubt it will make a difference. More likely it's for performance/compat. purposes.
  
• creative CMSS (option in the creative console) !
  
• those cracks are not ok!
  

Listening to those sounds makes me want to choke all those who were making Black Shark MUSIC videos before the release :doh: ;)

AFAIK there is only 2 solutions solutions for vista.

It's ALchemy+X-Fi/Audigy2 and 3DSoundBack+RealtekHD.

So if you want correct 3D sound - you got limited choise :)

Thank you for excellent input---I'm way behind the curve, this will be my first vista build.

I'll be using the asus P5E, with ADI AD1988B audio chipset on board.

for xfi the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional is 139.00 at newegg.

My highest priority is FPS, I'm sure the xfi will be better than onboard in sound quality---but would it also effect fps in DCS BS?

ty sirs

I haven't seen any information on what sound API DCS:BS is using unsure if the game is using OpenAL or DS3D.There seems to be some 3dsound without changing anything under Vista. In my experience with alchemy , even if a game isn't using ds3d and you install alchemy to it's program directory it will mirror the sound with a slight latency ...so it sounds like its doing something but it's autally not other than slight reverb. Alchemy is supposed to replace the directsound dll in the game directory but as far as I can see there isn't any such file in DCS:BS so I doubt Alchemy is doing anything...

DLL files are searched in particular order. At first program looks at current directory and then at system directories (like "C:\WINDOWS\system32") or directories in PATH environmental variables. Game doesn't need own DirectX DLL files if it works well with default ones, which reside in system directories. However, if DLL files are putted inside program directory, they will be used instead of default ones. Alchemy works that way by putting its own DirectSound3D dll file inside programs directory.

Vista has DirectSound3D support in very limited way to keep back compatability with older applications. It provides stereo software mixer only and no vendor specific extensions like EAX.

Alchemy "restores" 3D sound by putting its wrapper (DirectSound3D -> OpenAL) in programs directory, however it is just wrapper which as all wrappers increases latency. To get descent results it is needed to experiment with Alchemy settings, but there is good chance that some crackling and bad timing will still persist. That is the reason why I still don't use Windows Vista or Windows Server 2008.

Problem with 3D sound could be solved completely if application in question drops sound support via DirectX and begins to use OpenAL.

I haven't seen any information on what sound API DCS:BS is using unsure if the game is using OpenAL or DS3D.There seems to be some 3dsound without changing anything under Vista. In my experience with alchemy , even if a game isn't using ds3d and you install alchemy to it's program directory it will mirror the sound with a slight latency ...so it sounds like its doing something but it's autally not other than slight reverb. Alchemy is supposed to replace the directsound dll in the game directory but as far as I can see there isn't any such file in DCS:BS so I doubt Alchemy is doing anything...

I think my test is enough to prove you wrong. No reverb there. Also check my "first impressions" list. The difference is there. I can't check it in-game but the recordings are enough IMO.

The next thing:

Why there is so much of this weird sound effect, I don't know the name for it. It's similar to what we can hear in some old 70-80's movies near a waterfall. The sound should be constant and yet it sounds like it's floating around + it's too metallic. Do you know, what I mean. This effect is... aaaaaaaaa:doh: I forgot my recordings have it! Check out 4:02.

Edit:

Have you noticed that it's much less evident with ALchemy?

Edit2:

I bet there are errors in the DCS sound system but one can't say anymore that it's just .wav's...

My highest priority is FPS, I'm sure the xfi will be better than onboard in sound quality---but would it also effect fps in DCS BS?

ty sirs

The answer is YES with 0.9 probability.

http://ph.hardwarezone.com/news/view.php?cid=15&id=1946

Even when I switched from onboard audio to Audigy 1 the stuttering when I was passing a column of tanks at very low alt was not the case anymore.

However, games running on the OpenAL audio API will see the most significant improvement in audio quality and frame rate. At the Creative X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor’s launch, several top OpenAL-based PC titles will take full advantage of it, including Battlefield 2, Doom 3 (with patch 1.3), Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil (with patch 1.3), and Unreal Tournament 2004.

Microsoft introduced (in practice - it forced) Direct Sound 3D and then they cut it off! I'm not surprised - this is Microsoft. But what does suprise me is game developers actions. I mean why the hell a single direct sound 3D based game has been released after Microsoft came out with this crap (no direct sound 3d in Vista)?! Devs should all move to OpenAL. Why they didn't I won't probably understand in my life. I could understand devs of some cheap computer board games but nothing more.

Here's the list of native OpenAL games.

http://connect.creativelabs.com/alchemy/Lists/Games/AllItems.aspx?SortField=API&SortDir=Desc&View=%7b40CC74D5%2dA077%2d42C5%2dAFDB%2d1DCA3CE58BDE%7d

Why don't you join, ED? ED is a serious company on a position to say to anyone pulling (you know what) out to go (you know what) themself.

My highest priority is FPS, I'm sure the xfi will be better than onboard in sound quality---but would it also effect fps in DCS BS?

ty sirs

The answer is YES with 0.9 probability.

http://ph.hardwarezone.com/news/view.php?cid=15&id=1946

Even when I switched from onboard audio to Audigy 1 the stuttering when I was passing a column of tanks at very low alt was not the case anymore.

Two more interesting replies.

What is your OS Bucic?

I'm looking for the best solution in vista64.

TY sirs

What is your OS Bucic?

My system is XP SP3 (SP2, SP1 before...) but the guy's who recorded sounds for this comparison is Vista 32.

Edit:

Use ALchemy + CMSS (an option in Creative Console) - the difference is there! Even more distinctive rattle sound with more powerful base. I won't get the recordings this time though... I guess I tried the bloke's patience ;)

AFAIK there is only 2 solutions solutions for vista.

It's ALchemy+X-Fi/Audigy2 and 3DSoundBack+RealtekHD.

So if you want correct 3D sound - you got limited choise :)

Don't forget about ASUS new family of soundcards

http://www.asus.com/ProductGroup2.aspx?PG_ID=deBXUzMkKnQuGLGK

Don't forget about ASUS new family of soundcards

and don't forget to check the date of the post on which you reply ( 06.12.2008 ) :)

Gents, pardon the ignorance, I have an X-Fi, but know nothing of what you speak of. Care to elaborate?

Thanks,

I haven't seen any information on what sound API DCS:BS is using unsure if the game is using OpenAL or DS3D.There seems to be some 3dsound without changing anything under Vista. In my experience with alchemy , even if a game isn't using ds3d and you install alchemy to it's program directory it will mirror the sound with a slight latency ...so it sounds like its doing something but it's autally not other than slight reverb. Alchemy is supposed to replace the directsound dll in the game directory but as far as I can see there isn't any such file in DCS:BS so I doubt Alchemy is doing anything...

No, It's doing A LOT! Black Shark sounds much better with no need to open the door or switch views to kill that awful whine. Even better is LOMAC! No more afterburner sound in the pit of a cold airplane. Other fixes as well. It's brilliant. However, if you play IL2, I recommend not using Alchemy as it introduces some very wierd sounds that I wont begin to try to describe. Alchemy allows easy adjustment as to which programs get the fix and which don't. So it's easy to try and back out for each game.

and don't forget to check the date of the post on which you reply ( 06.12.2008 ) :)

What for? ;) I'm just tossing the info in. I'm not interested in reply that much.

Just a heads up for those who look for Vista/Win7+Creative+Alchemy alternative ASUS Xonar now has EAX 5.0 support

http://forums.techgage.com/showthread.php?t=3125

As far as I know ALchemy is a way to enable EAX in Vista.

FACTS :

1) EAX uses DirectSound3D.

2) DirectSound3D is removed from DirectX10. It was sudstituted by OpenAL.

3) Vista/Win7 can't use EAX directly cause they only support OpenAL.

4) Creative ALchemy is a way to interpret DirectSound3D commands(which are being used by EAX) to OpenAL thus allowing EAX to work fine with OpenAL.

QUESTION:

Do DCS:BS support EAX?

As far as I know it doesn't since I ve never saw an option enabling it(I may be wrong). In games that do support EAX(check ALchemy list) the option is activated once the games are ALchemy-Enabled(ALchemy puts two dll files in game directory if I remember right).

I do have an X-Fi and used ALchemy on games other than BS.

Isoul, I don't know if DCS BS >supports EAX<. All I know is Alchemy did make a difference during my trials and my guess is DCS does support EAX. I wrote quite a lot about it and provided a "side by side" recording. The recording may not be available for download anymore but you can read my impressions. Try it yourself. IMO it's worth it as enabling Alchemy for DCS is a piece of cake. The procedure is in this thread. If there will still be demand for the recording I can re-upload it later.

"Side-by-side" comparison - Audacity project - link updated

 

http://rs463l33.rapidshare.com/files/330065337/alchemyvsnoalchemy_vista_audacity_project.7z

 

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

.