Heat seeking missiles for the Ka-50

Hi all. Just have some questions about the possibility of using air to air missiles in DCS.

1. Does anyone know if heat seeking missiles for K-50 or eventually the apache (R-73, stinger, igla) will be included in future add ons?

2. If not (allthough its gonna be great if its official) can this stuff be modded? It doeasn`t seem very difficult to create such mod, not that i`m a modder myself, because we have helmet sight targeting in Lock on which should work identically in dcs.

To see the video of real kiowas firing stingers on a target and not to be able to do the same with Ka-50 makes me wanna blow my head with a shotgun :joystick: I think its gonna be a great addition to the allready amazing gameplay.

I got the impression that there won't be an A2A missile for the KA-50 in DCS. And the HMS is completly diffrent to the LockOn / Mig-29 HMS.

I don't realy know why I would need an A2A missle tbh, as it would block the ATGM (like when you carry the Kh-25). I think A2A is realy difficult / anoying anyway, as the field of view of the KA-50s cockpit is to limited to track fast moving aircraft.

1. The Ka-50 is not operationally equipped with AAM's (there was testing with R-73, but never introduced into production variants so far). Same for Apaches. In short, highly unlikely.

2. Also highly unlikely, but probably not impossible. You shouldn't even be dreaming of heli A2A anyway - your job is blowing up the opposition in support of your troops, not stuffing yourself up with AAMs instead. Leave that to the fighters.

If you want A2A, task an escort group of fixed wings or A2A capable chopper.

I guess in theory, it could be done, as the AH-64 have 4 stigners on board.

OMG, This kind of Topics are a true PITA. Would you do a air superiority mission with a B-52? nope? Ok, then why are you interested in AA combat with a slower, more vulnerable and less capable platform? If you want to do some Dogfighting, please, sit there and wait for DCS:F15 or similar (you can fly with Falcon or F18 Janes meanwhile), and let AG boys to have some fun!

Regards!!

I guess in theory, it could be done, as the AH-64 have 4 stigners on board.

They most certainly do NOT.

The only aircraft currently carrying ATAS is the OH-58D, and one version of the AH-1 carries the AIM-9 for some rather special missions.

OMG, This kind of Topics are a true PITA. Would you do a air superiority mission with a B-52? nope? Ok, then why are you interested in AA combat with a slower, more vulnerable and less capable platform? If you want to do some Dogfighting, please, sit there and wait for DCS:F15 or similar (you can fly with Falcon or F18 Janes meanwhile), and let AG boys to have some fun!

 

Regards!!

Plans are in the works to make the B1 a supercruse ATA support aircraft. It will hang in the back wile F22s or the JSFs go in first. If the lead plains are over whelmed buy too many enamy air craft (we all know this will never happen). The F22s will relay the targets to the B1 it will cruse in and launch its 12 AIM 120s and be gon befor the hit their targets. All the targeting will be dun by the F22s not the B1. So all it has to do is conferm that each missle has a lock on a target and fire when in range. And being that the B1 will be in supper cruse at the time of launch it extends the range of the AIM 120 (not buy much).

Now keep in mind this was dreamd up buy some egg head in the USAF.

The only aircraft currently carrying ATAS is the OH-58D...

Well...I guess, "If you ain't cav..."

Please don't use pie-in-the-sky, un-funded and more than likely never-to-be-funded projects as counter-examples ;)

Plans are in the works to make the B1 a supercruse ATA support aircraft.

Now keep in mind this was dreamd up buy some egg head in the USAF.

Also don´t use Discovery Channel Videos......XDDD

Interestingly, the Ka-50 was initially seen by the west as a helicopter hunter. Which is indeed an interesting concept, the anti-tank helicopter was the biggest threat to the WP forces in Germany and just like subs, an other helicopter seemed to be the best weapon to counter it. Did that mission play any significant role at any point in the development of the Ka-50 or was that simply the perception of western intelligence?

Well it AA missiles might not be operational for Ka-50 or the apache at the moment (dont know about ka-52 though as i`ve seen mounted r-73 in fotos and the details about it in different sites say they are part of its armament) but its pretty easy to make these choppers use them. I`ve seen OH-58D actually firing stingers, so there are attemps of arming an attack helicopter with AA missiles. I`ve never said they should be used for hunting and shooting down fighters :doh: or for escort missions. But they certainly need a proper anti air protection, that ATGM can`t provide. You can use them to attack air targets but they are pretty limited in case the target is moving fast and is maneuvering. To escort helicopters with fighters is the funniest thing ever if even possible :lol:

Kamov pitched it as some sort of helicopter interdictor - a fast heli that could get into position and aid their armored forces ... against enemy armor, not helicopters.

Interestingly, the Ka-50 was initially seen by the west as a helicopter hunter. Which is indeed an interesting concept, the anti-tank helicopter was the biggest threat to the WP forces in Germany and just like subs, an other helicopter seemed to be the best weapon to counter it. Did that mission play any significant role at any point in the development of the Ka-50 or was that simply the perception of western intelligence?

Well it AA missiles might not be operational for Ka-50 or the apache at the moment (dont know about ka-52 though as i`ve seen mounted r-73 in fotos and the details about it in different sites say they are part of its armament)

Mock-ups ;)

Again, a number of heaters have been tested on a number of helis. To this day, AAM carrying helis are the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

but its pretty easy to make these choppers use them. I`ve seen OH-58D actually firing stingers, so there are attemps of arming an attack helicopter with AA missiles. I`ve never said they should be used for hunting and shooting down fighters :doh: or for escort missions. But they certainly need a proper anti air protection, that ATGM can`t provide. You can use them to attack air targets but they are pretty limited in case the target is moving fast and is maneuvering. To escort helicopters with fighters is the funniest thing ever if even possible :lol:

Actually that's how its done. Just because you don't know how fighter sweeps work doesn't mean it isn't done ;)

Talk about the same topic goes over and over. Starforce-topics don't even come close to "A2A-missiles for the Ka-50"-topics these days.

As ED has said, choppers are not designed for A2A combat.

You may be right GGTharos but that doesn`t mean that you can`t get yourself in a situation where you won`t have support from fighters ( in a mountain relief zone with different long and medium range SAMs which you can traverse only with a helicopter flying 10 metres above the ground). You will be shot down even by some training fighter accidently emerging from "nowhere". This million dollar high tech flying cofin will be useless than, cause you`ve underestimated the use of 2 real AA missiles. How difficult can this be to understand that AA missiles are not just useless weight for a modern combat helicopter and can come in hand in certain unexpected occaisions. That doesn`t mean taking fighters role just means increasing the helicopter`s survivability. :pilotfly:

And how will those A2A missiles help you against a 'training fighter that came out of nowhere'?

I'll give you a hint; I personally ran a Ka-50 v A-10A test with Mustang back in the days of early beta testing.

The Ka-50 DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE. It doesn't matter WHAT you hang off of it, because it couldn't even see the A-10 coming - and when the Ka-50 came under attack, it still couldn't spot the A-10. Mustang is a heck of an A2A pilot, and he was the one flying the Ka-50.

How difficult can it be for you to understand that A2A missiles ARE a useless payload on a helicopter, since you're wasting pylons on weapons you're unlikely to use, and you need A2G armament instead?

Again, helis that in RL do operationally carry A2A weapons are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. Those pilots are also specifically trained in A2A with their helicopters - those missiles aren't an afterthought, and they're not there 'just in case they come in handy'. Vikhrs are already useful for taking out other helis, and if you run into a fighter, the chances that you'd hit him even if you have A2A weapons are SO small it's simply not worth equipping those helis with such.

And that's the Helicorps of various armed forces obvious opinion, not mine.

You may be right GGTharos but that doesn`t mean that you can`t get yourself in a situation where you won`t have support from fighters ( in a mountain relief zone with different long and medium range SAMs which you can traverse only with a helicopter flying 10 metres above the ground). You will be shot down even by some training fighter accidently emerging from "nowhere". This million dollar high tech flying cofin will be useless than, cause you`ve underestimated the use of 2 real AA missiles. How difficult can this be to understand that AA missiles are not just useless weight for a modern combat helicopter and can come in hand in certain unexpected occaisions. That doesn`t mean taking fighters role just means increasing the helicopter`s survivability. :pilotfly:

Also don´t use Discovery Channel Videos......XDDD

Why not? I'm a big fan of Brainiac and tend to use it a lot to prove things :D

[...] i`ve seen mounted r-73 in fotos and the details about it in different sites say they are part of its armament) [...]

Eeh Russians have tradition to expose their planes with even paylod which can't be used on something plane. Su-33 has been shown with Kh-41 Moskit... which can't be used by Su-33 :lol:

Various web sites, simple copy from one site or second and paste in own. This is why often we have simple bullshits or not true in 100%.

Why not? I'm a big fan of Brainiac and tend to use it a lot to prove things :D

Brainiac, yeah :D

There is reason in your words, and ill have to agree. Not having a radar detecting air targets will make very difficult to spot, track and attack effectively such targets. So to be effectively used against them the heli should be redesigned in several ways which is not done yet. And such redesign will probably mean reducing its AG capabilities. Now it looks to me not a possible (at least in the near future) turn in helicopters tactics.

It is possible (like I said, there are helis that do it - eg. Marine Cobra on special escort missions, and Kiowa, since it is more likely to encounter scout helis as well and blowing up armor is not its job) ... but again, the helis that do so are the exception and not the rule - and their primary task tends to be not CAS or anti-armor, but escort or scouting.

It is simply something that is not usually done or trained for in an attack helicopter.

Whoot no A2A in Ka-50 ( are you sure ) R-73 yep

you can also use PTUR Vihur for A2A (like Su-25T do)

if Ka-50 in DCS don't have the capability to use A2A weapons

that's mistake from my point

Why don't you tell Russian Army Aviation that they are making a mistake by not putting R-73's on the Ka-50 then ;)

Why don't you tell Russian Army Aviation that they are making a mistake by not putting R-73's on the Ka-50 then ;)

Russian Army have R-73 on the Ka-50 read more book's shily :book:

Russian Army have R-73 on the Ka-50 read more book's shily :book:

LOL :megalol:.