fly it like you stole it - disable AP

After watching this acrobatic vid, i've decided to break the BS dogma of never flying without engaged AP channels. Result? Awesome!

I finally have a feeling i could really kick some arse in this thing. Stops, U turns, J turns, immelmann turn with a stop on top (vertical J turn), funnel, sideways, backward. Not a problem. With some practice.

Trim (i think) was always in the way of such moves, i could never do them because something kicked in and the helicopter just drifted into it's original position. It (ofcourse) takes some time getting used to the feel, but it's SOO worth it, once you tame it. It becomes very responsive and it goes where you want it. And that's what i need.

You should add a hall sensor effect stick on top of that to be valid.. A cheap stick wont cut it.. T-flight hotas X, my burden.. :(

Uhmmm... I can do most of these things with AP and FD on...

Stops, funnels, sideways, u-turns, J-turns etc.

Haven't done immelmans or loops yet...

I always have my autopilot and Flight director on (except altitude). The flight director disables the autopilot function but the dampening functions remain. I feel there is little difference between autopilot off and AP on + FD.

So what is the advantage in terms of aerobatic abilities when you have the AP off compared to AP/FD combi?

When you drift to the original position it means that you have the regular AP on... It remembers your attitude and tries to go back to it's original attitude after the turn. Not the case with FD on...

Can you do a precise landing without the AP buttons on? I thought so...

been reading these posts for three years now...

I skipped around in the video but every single damn time I just see two choppers flying in straight lines doing nothing. In fact, the bloopers at the end was the only interesting thing I saw.

No offense dude, but you need to edit your shit. There may be something nice in there, but I don't care about watching 7 minutes of straight and level flying waiting for you to do one maneuver.

Uhmmm... I can do most of these things with AP and FD on...

To support my last comment on flying without AP

Watch my track. AP on all the time! Did my first immelman and it works. As for the rest some U-turns, backwards flying (didn't go very well) and flying sideways with 100 km/u.

Can you do a precise landing without the AP buttons on? I thought so...

See end of track, landing on a building. AP on with FD so it's not an auto-landing.

Ap-Fd stunts.trk

What are you guys fighting about? The only one who advocated flying without the AP channels turned on was the OP, Plainsight.

What are you guys fighting about? The only one who advocated flying without the AP channels turned on was the OP, Plainsight.

You make it sound like a fight now... It is not...

PlainSight said that the AP would drift the heli to it's original position and I thought: Not if you have the Flight Director on! So I'm just saying that there is no need "to break the BS dogma of never flying without engaged AP channels", since you can achieve excactly the same results with AP channels turned on. I then support this 'tip' with a track.

A tip, sir. Not a fight.

You make it sound like a fight now... It is not...

 

PlainSight said that the AP would drift the heli to it's original position and I thought: Not if you have the Flight Director on! So I'm just saying that there is no need "to break the BS dogma of never flying without engaged AP channels", since you can achieve excactly the same results with AP channels turned on. I then support this 'tip' with a track.

 

A tip, sir. Not a fight.

Well, you responded to JG14_Smil who was advocating the same position as you like he was instead disagreeing. I was trying to point out that you both in fact agree. On a side note, let me point out that you can achieve the same results with AP buttons engaged (but NOT the flight director) by holding down the trimmer button :)

In combat I most of the time have some AP functions on but never the FD and when just flying around I like to feel the bird and put everything. I can fly way more precise like that I must say... Feels more like in real-life... knowing where the boundries of the bird are. You just have to fly coordinated, and that is what most people don't realize and thus don't do.

you can achieve the same results with AP buttons engaged (but NOT the flight director) by holding down the trimmer button

Holding down the Trimmer disengages the AP temporarily. Engages after release. It's not about the buttons but about the AP :smartass:

We can start a fight if you want :lol:

Holding down the Trimmer disengages the AP temporarily. Engages after release. It's not about the buttons but about the AP :smartass:

 

We can start a fight if you want :lol:

The trimmer button disengages the AP's 20% control authority but not the stabilization channels. The stabilization is what makes all the difference. Each AP channel button also engages the stabilization for that axis. However, the 20% control authority of the AP will actually fight you unless 1) You have the trimmer button held down, or 2) You have the FD turned on.

Ok so to clear things up:

- Holding down trimmer button and having your FD on does excactly the same

But one question then that has become the main subject in this thread (sorry! :music_whistling:):

Does flying with AP disengaged make any difference in aerobatic capabilities? Or not and are aerobatics w/o AP unnecessary difficult?

Ok so to clear things up:

 

- Holding down trimmer button and having your FD on does excactly the same

It is certainly true to say that they both do very similar things. I used to think it was identical, trimmer-held-down flying and FD flying, but in comparisons I made post BS2 release, there did appear to be a noticable bit of a difference in aircraft handling. I wish someone with more knowledge on the matter could chime in.

Maybe holding the trimmer button down DOES NOT disengage the altitude hold 20% control authority, while flight director does. If true, that could explain why trimmer-button-held-down felt different than flight director when I made my tests a few months back. Maybe I had the alt hold channel on. Anyway, this is just my first guess, and is quite likely wrong.

Does flying with AP disengaged make any difference in aerobatic capabilities? Or not and are aerobatics w/o AP unnecessary difficult?

I would think it just makes aerobatics unnecessarily difficult. You have to fight the instability of the helo AND try to do crazy maneuvers, not fun.

I wouldn't say it's unstable, it's just much more responsive. For stable hover and attack, it's better to leave AP on to focus on shkval, but for evasion, or just pure fun, i prefer no AP. It's like turning traction and stability control off in a ferrari.

But it is hard to stabilize it after coming to a 180degree turn/stop from a 200 kph. And keep it stable while looking at shkval and locking up targets. I'd need a gunner at that point...

I wouldn't say it's unstable, it's just much more responsive. For stable hover and attack, it's better to leave AP on to focus on shkval, but for evasion, or just pure fun, i prefer no AP. It's like turning traction and stability control off in a ferrari.

 

But it is hard to stabilize it after coming to a 180degree turn/stop from a 200 kph. And keep it stable while looking at shkval and locking up targets. I'd need a gunner at that point...

Have you tried with Flight Director and AP..? As Speed explained it makes no difference in responsiveness, only stability.

Look at my track a few posts ago... AP is on, doing crazy stuff you'll see what I mean.

After watching this acrobatic vid, i've decided to break the BS dogma of never flying without engaged AP channels. Result? Awesome!

+1 to you! Finally someone who understand, and is able to connect with his aircraft :thumbup:

If you ever do a TIF, you'll be extremely grateful for flying BS2 without Stability Augmentation. Just have fun and keep at it, and in the end you won't even need that gunner :smilewink:

I Didnt watch it all, and got no sound on this work PC, but I saw the start and the end and a few bits in the middle. (very little straight and level that I could see).

It is a relief to see a video without the overly dramatic scenes chopping from one to another every 1.5 seconds, and the bloopers at the end credits were excellent.

I am also a 3 channels on, FD on AP off guy - but not going to get embroiled in another one of those discussions...I hope...

funny thing is, the guy has ap on in the video. he's just using fd.

I used to have FD on almost all the time just because it's so fun to pilot it that way. But since I removed the spring from my pedals and detached them from the trim, I'm finding myself not needing to turn FD on almost never.

And the most important to keep in mind, forget about dogmas, it's just a sim, enjoy it the way you feel to.

...

+1

Very nice video, flying and video in general! Highly disagree with Frostiken, it was well made and entertaining.

Can you do a precise landing without the AP buttons on?

Yes we can :)

Steal it - Fly it - Crash it (or not). Hangar ship auto-rotation, -not pretty but survivable...

NoSAS_Fun.trk