Bearcat Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) I think the $40 per plane will not go over well .. no matter how well t is modeled .. In this economy people just do not have that kind of bread... The RoF model would work though so t would be a 10+ sales @ $40 vs 40+ sales @ $10 type of scenario.. and I think the latter would fly better than the former because the final numbers would be much higher at $10 per than $40 per.. Especially for folks who have already dropped full price for their other offerings... To expect someone to drop $40 continually for one plane is counterproductive IMO.. They could market it as a "If you by BS2 or FC2 or the DCS P-51 at full price you can get any WWII add ons (or any other era as well for tat matter) for $10 a plane/chopper with the code for each model built into updates so that if someone who had a plane/chopper that you didn't came on your server you would at least be able to see it..but you would have to buy the flyable..... that way they would kind of force people to at least look at their more modern offerings .. and who knows .. something might click. If not then they (DCS) still got $40 and you won't feel ripped off because you got something for your $40. They should market DCS world on either BS2, FC2 or the P-51 @ $40 and from there on out ... $10-$15 a pop per plane. I think it would fly .. I'd buy it .. so you multiply that $10-$15 per plane by the number of WWII simmers just chomping at the friggin bit for something that is this good.. and mind you .. I use a MSFFB2 so I still have yet to experience this product right... because my FFB does not work and I can't really fly with absolutely no resistance and I will not be buying a spring stick just for this, but what I have done n free flight is very very impressive.. If DCS could duplicate this just in models alone.. (as in one maybe two models of each.. a P-51B and a P-51D.. a FW F-9 and an F-9, A 109 Gustav and a Kurfurst etc... more is always better of course but I am just being practical I fully understand thast the IL2 model will probably never ever be duplicated as far as variants of AC goes) .. If they did that and introduced the AI version of each new plane/chopper as a free update people would gobble it up like viagra at the Playboy mansion. Maybe as time goes by $5-$10 for maps as well.. but you would have to have DCS world (which you could only get by buying BS2.FC2 or the P-51 initially) .. folks would buy it ... I'd be willing to bet money.. because this DCS stuff is that good.. As I said .. I have LOMAC and BS .. but I just couldn't get into them so I never really got into a DCS product till this Pony.... and it is friggin great!! Carpe Diem ........ because believe me .. you can... Edited May 25, 2012 by Bearcat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] AMD Fx-8350 | ASUS M5A99X EVO | EVGA 1050G PS | Corsair Force 3 240GSSD Samsung 840 EVO 500G SSD | 32G Corsair Vengance DDR3 | Seagate 1TB 7200RPMHD WD 2TB 7200 RPMHD XFX DD FX-HD 7870 2GB DDR5 | SB Xi-Fi APU | W7 U | TIR3 MSFFB2 | Saitek X-52|SaitekPro Pedals | Logitech Z-640 5.1 | ASUS VE248 24" LCD
TurboHog Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Comparing Rof flight models with DCS models? Do you realise how much work goes into a DCS plane? Try to fly A10C and you will see what I mean. These planes require months of research, programming, testing etc etc. P51D is still beta and your force feedback is WIP. Welcome to the world of DCS, where high-fidelity planes come cheap at just $40!. Nice try! P.S. there are people around here that bought multiple licenses to support ED Edited May 25, 2012 by TurboHog 'Frett'
cichlidfan Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Expect to find this in Chit Chat sooner or later As much as I enjoy ROF's way of doing things, I really do not agree that a similar pricing structure will work for DCS. If DCS were putting out aircraft at the same pace, and numbers of man hours, as 777 then that might make sense but from where I am sitting it is not happening like that. Where did you get $5-10 per map from, even ROF charges $20, to pre-order, for a map that will be mostly water. EDIT: P.S. there are people around here that bought multiple licenses to support ED I do the same for 777, I have more than one ROF license as well as lots of aircraft that I really don't fly.;) Edited May 25, 2012 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
Bearcat Posted May 25, 2012 Author Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Comparing Rof flight models with DCS models? Do you realise how much work goes into a DCS plane? Try to fly A10C and you will see what I mean. These planes require months of research, programming, testing etc etc. P51D is still beta and your force feedback is WIP. Welcome to the world of DCS, where high-fidelity planes come cheap at just $40!. Nice try! P.S. there are people around here that bought multiple licenses to support ED Nice try? WTH is that supposed to mean.. ?:cry: You need to check yourself there my friend.. I am not trying anything.. I am just making a suggestion.. One that may not and very likely will not be followed through with by the developers.. but it is simply my opinion .. and I am voicing it.. Get off your horse there bubba and chill out. :huh: I am well aware of how good the DCS models are and what they entail.. I am not a novice at this flight sim thing .. by a long shot. I just don't like jets ... but that's me.. I am also well aware that this is a beta and that the FFB issue will be fixed.. As I said .... I am just making a suggestion.. The WWII market is huge and despite all the work that goes into making a DCS AC ... if each AC is marketed at $40 it will be a harder sell.. but if each new AC was marketed at the price I mentioned .... even up to $20 per.. considering the fidelity of the model..it would sell better than $40 per.. and that's all I am saying. I know hundreds of guys just like me.. who love simming.. are not crazy about the modern stuff.. and would wet their pants to get a broader offering of classic warbirds with the fidelity of this P-51.. and the volume would offset the cost. In my humble opinion. As for the map number .. that was kind off off the top of my head.. so OK granted.. even at $20 for a good map of the quality rendered in DCS works alone.. it would be worth it.. Edited May 25, 2012 by Bearcat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] AMD Fx-8350 | ASUS M5A99X EVO | EVGA 1050G PS | Corsair Force 3 240GSSD Samsung 840 EVO 500G SSD | 32G Corsair Vengance DDR3 | Seagate 1TB 7200RPMHD WD 2TB 7200 RPMHD XFX DD FX-HD 7870 2GB DDR5 | SB Xi-Fi APU | W7 U | TIR3 MSFFB2 | Saitek X-52|SaitekPro Pedals | Logitech Z-640 5.1 | ASUS VE248 24" LCD
-Rudel- Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 It's no doubt a study sim. You would only have to buy one and stick with it. At least from a virtual squadron stand point. Like IL-2, I just stuck with the A6Ms and had a blast. You don't have to buy every release they make. It's almost like Apple Inc in marketing. But I see where these modules are headed....a more realistic Battlefield type sim. DSC Modern Warfare Steel Beast Silent Hunter All rolled up into a single world engine, where you basically pay for a cockpit, LBVs, driver seat, or a bridge. https://magnitude-3.com/ https://www.facebook.com/magnitude3llc https://www.youtube.com/@magnitude_3 i9 13900K, 128GB RAM, RTX 4090, Win10Pro, 2 x 2TB SSD, 1 x 15TB SSD U.2 i9 10980XE, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090Ti, Win10 Pro, 2 x 256GB SSD, 4 x 512GB SSD RAID 0, 6 x 4TB HDD RAID 6, 9361-8i RAID Controller i7 4960X, 64GB RAM, GTX Titan X Black, Win10 Pro, 512GB PCIe SSD, 2 x 256GB SSD
TurboHog Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 sorry about the nice try thing. I misjudged you there. I absolutely don't agree however. I'm sure ED has made some profit models and used f'(x) = 0 to find the best price. I think your idea is not more profitable. What you get is a high fidelity airplane just as detailed as, say PMDG 747, which sold well for $75. In DCS you also get an entirely new sim world for free. ROF planes and the ROF marketing model cannot be compared with a DCS module that takes 2 years to develop. 'Frett'
EtherealN Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) but if each new AC was marketed at the price I mentioned .... even up to $20 per.. considering the fidelity of the model..it would sell better than $40 per.. and that's all I am saying. Will it sell twice as many copies just from the price change? I would like to have these things be as cheap as possible too, but remember that it's ED that's sitting on the sales figures, they have the data, and of course they are trying to set prices that will maximize revenue. It isn't about selling as many copies as possible, it's about making enough revenue to sustain the business model. That's a different thing. I know hundreds of guys just like me.. who love simming.. Unfortunately "hundreds" of people are a drop in the ocean. ED does not make sales figures public, but the one figure I know is for a country that none of us barely have ever heard of - and sales there were in multiple thousands. (I think that was for the Black Shark, long time ago, where Jim mentioned it in response to a similar discussion.) and the volume would offset the cost. This is just an assumption, and unfortunately one I would bet quite a lot of money that it's wrong. The P-51D is already cheaper than the A-10C was at launch, by a considerable margin. Also remember that A2A has made a good business charging quite well for it's planes, most of which are of lower fidelity than the DCS P-51D, and you can't even do the job the aircraft was originally built to do - fight! (Not to denigrate A2A - as I said, their business model appears successful since people do pay for it. It's nice planes.) Basically, if money is an object and a person does not want to pay 40 dollars, they are always free to wait with their purchase a while until there is a sale or the price is otherwise reduced. The A-10C launched at 60, is now 40, and has had several promotions that pushed the price down even further. But halving the price at launch day would most likely put a huge dent into ED's revenue stream - as I said, they have the numbers on this, you and I do not. Edited May 26, 2012 by EtherealN [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
Bearcat Posted May 26, 2012 Author Posted May 26, 2012 sorry about the nice try thing. I misjudged you there. I absolutely don't agree however. I'm sure ED has made some profit models and used f'(x) = 0 to find the best price. I think your idea is not more profitable. What you get is a high fidelity airplane just as detailed as, say PMDG 747, which sold well for $75. In DCS you also get an entirely new sim world for free. ROF planes and the ROF marketing model cannot be compared with a DCS module that takes 2 years to develop. Point taken.. and thank you. I still think however, that in the case of the WWII AC a not necessarily "new" but different paradigm must be embraced. If you factor in the fact that WWII AC need less work... even going as high as $25 a plane .. would work.. It would work.. As much as I love WWII AC I don't know if I could justify spending $40 per plane .. for my own personal fun.. considering.. but even at $25 a pop.. it is doable and potentially very profitable.. and IMO more profitable than the $40 a pop scenario .. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] AMD Fx-8350 | ASUS M5A99X EVO | EVGA 1050G PS | Corsair Force 3 240GSSD Samsung 840 EVO 500G SSD | 32G Corsair Vengance DDR3 | Seagate 1TB 7200RPMHD WD 2TB 7200 RPMHD XFX DD FX-HD 7870 2GB DDR5 | SB Xi-Fi APU | W7 U | TIR3 MSFFB2 | Saitek X-52|SaitekPro Pedals | Logitech Z-640 5.1 | ASUS VE248 24" LCD
cichlidfan Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 The problem, as has been mentioned, is that without actual numbers (which are naturally priviledged information) opinions are useless since they are based on conjecture. We are all entitled to opinions, surely, but in this case none of us has enough information to properly form one. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
Azazel Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 Paying $40 bucks every year or so for the next DCS aircraft is not hitting my wallet that hard to be honest (I'm a college student). If anything, I'd happily pay $40 bucks every month if ED could put out high quality modeled aircraft at such a rate. The cost really isn't that much in my mind. The costs I really don't like are for software like 3ds Max or having to replace computer components to keep up with the power curve. Just my two cents. My Rig: EVGA GTX 1070 x 2 | EVGA x58 SLI classified | i7 X 990 CPU | 24 GB RAM | Windows 10 Home 64 bit| Track IR Pro | CH Fighter Stick | CH Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Bearcat Posted May 26, 2012 Author Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) Paying $40 bucks every year or so for the next DCS aircraft is not hitting my wallet that hard to be honest (I'm a college student). If anything, I'd happily pay $40 bucks every month if ED could put out high quality modeled aircraft at such a rate. The cost really isn't that much in my mind. The costs I really don't like are for software like 3ds Max or having to replace computer components to keep up with the power curve. Just my two cents. I was not thinking one every year.. I was thinking if DCS got some 3rd party people to put out a batch of WWII stiff .. say something like 12 planes over 18 months or so... that would change the dynamic a bit and make $40 a plane over that period a bit problematic for some.. but at $15-$25 it would be more doable and if the model was inserted in the code as AI .. if you didn't want to buy the plane to activate the flyable for yourself someone on a server who did not have that particular plane would still be able to fly in a server that you were n.. Am I making sense? Again .. these are all just suggestions.. they are not things to be judged perse but more to be worked out through mutual deliberation, weighing the pros and cons among the potential buyers and fans of the product so that DCS won't have to do as much deliberation... I must admit though .. I do have an agenda .. and that is to see at the very least some variant of 190, 109,Spitfire,Zero,Tony,Hurricaine,Thunderbolt, Lavochkin,Mig,Macchi, Corsair & Hellcat rendered under the same fidelity as this P-51 because it is great and I can't wait for the finished product... I just think that lowering the price would result in more sales ... Where that sweet spot is I honesty cannot say I just came up with a number that was in line with what I would be willing to pay per aircraft, but the notion that selling new AC at even $15-$25 a plane would garnish more sales than pricing them at $40 per plane, which would result in a bigger bottom line is not just one that is solely based on my opinion but common sense. In the end I have no doubt that DCS will do the necessary research themselves and come up with a viable scenario.. if expanding farther into WWII AC is even on their radar, regardless to what they have said at this time on their website... it is all just ideas... Edited May 26, 2012 by Bearcat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] AMD Fx-8350 | ASUS M5A99X EVO | EVGA 1050G PS | Corsair Force 3 240GSSD Samsung 840 EVO 500G SSD | 32G Corsair Vengance DDR3 | Seagate 1TB 7200RPMHD WD 2TB 7200 RPMHD XFX DD FX-HD 7870 2GB DDR5 | SB Xi-Fi APU | W7 U | TIR3 MSFFB2 | Saitek X-52|SaitekPro Pedals | Logitech Z-640 5.1 | ASUS VE248 24" LCD
EtherealN Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 I was not thinking one every year.. I was thinking if DCS got some 3rd party people to put out a batch of WWII stiff .. say something like 12 planes over 18 months or so... that would changed the dynamic a bit and make $40 a plane over that period a bit problematic for some.. but at $15-$25 it would be more doable and if the model was inserted in the code as AI But 3rd party developers don't work for free any less than ED does. If you want DCS level work, you basically have to pay for it. If another company develops a plane to DCS standards, why would they have lower costs? I'd almost expect them to have higher costs since they would not have in-house access to the deep nuts and bolts and the coders that made the underlying tech. Remember that your argument could be applied equally to all games. Why did EA release ME3 at 60 dollars when they could have made so much more through setting the price at 30? Well, the answer is obvious. :) Do not underestimate how much it costs to develop these things. It's up in the tens of man-years minimum. (And for mainstream titles it's rediculously high - I saw the development costs of some mainstream titles quoted as 10-figure, in dollars, up-front... That's what it costs to have anywhere between 50 and a couple hundred people working fulltime on something for years.) Take all your salaries you'll earn throughout your entire working career, and add computers and software costs you use during this career, and you'll see that the numbers get pretty big pretty fast. And that'll only be something like 40 man-years. ...now add that you have to spend all of that money up front. You don't get a single dollar until it's all said and done. That's a pretty big risk that's being taken. Getting it wrong once can easily send a company to bankruptcy. .. if you didn't want to buy the plane to activate the flyable for yourself someone on a server who did not have that particular plane would still be able to fly in a server that you were n.. Am I making sense? Not sure. If you mean that you wouldn't need the plane yourself in order to have people on your server fly them - that's already the case in DCS. Has been for years. :) I just think that lowering the price would result in more sales ... Where that sweet spot is I honesty cannot say I just came up with a number that was in line with what I would be willing to pay per aircraft, but the notion that selling new AC at even $15-$25 a plane would garnish more sales than pricing them at $40 per plane, which would result in a bigger bottom line is not just one that is solely based on my opinion but common sense. That's your mistake. Yes it would mean more sales, quite likely. But it is not "common sense" that the bottom line would be adorned with bigger numbers. This is for many reasons, but one of them is quite simple: there's only so many people that are interested in the first place. Let's assume I am disinterested in strategy games. Would I be more likely to purchase Starcraft 2 if it was half price? Not really. If I have no interest in playing Starcraft 2, it could be 5 dollars and I wouldn't pick it up. But when you reduce the price, you also reduce the revenues from those that ARE interested. So let's play with some numbers: People interested: 500 000. People interested at 40 dollars: 300 000. People interested at 20 dollars: 500 000. So how do we get an optimal revenue stream from that? 300 000 * 40 = 12 million 500 000 * 20 = 10 million 300 000 * 40 + 200 000 * 20 = 16 million As indicated, games get their prices reduced when they are older, inviting people that were price sensitive to purchase. This is why DCS A-10C is cheaper now (40 dollars) than it was at release (60 dollars). This is why DCS BS is 10 dollars. This is why ED does promotions on both it's own site and steam where the prices are reduced temporarily. But in the example used above (which uses bogus numbers, I don't know the real numbers any better than you), we can easily see that your model could reduce total revenue quite substantially. Enough to make the difference between ED developing simulators, and ED going bust and us losing the one developer that seems interested in doing products like this at all... In the end I have no doubt that DCS will do the necessary research themselves and come up with a viable scenario.. if expanding farther into WWII AC is even on their radar, regardless to what they have said at this time on their website... it is all just ideas... Not "will do". The correct way to put it would be "already did". ;) You don't set a price without already having looked at your market research to inform you in that decision. As for what prices 3rd party developers will be setting - I imagine that's up to them. They'll look at their own numbers and their own costs and come to a conclusion about where they need to set their prices. Basic business. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
GGTharos Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 You don't need to buy every single plane. And if you want DCS quality, be prepared to pay for it, or wait for a sale/promo. That's it, period. I was not thinking one every year.. I was thinking if DCS got some 3rd party people to put out a batch of WWII stiff .. say something like 12 planes over 18 months or so... that would change the dynamic a bit and make $40 a plane over that period a bit problematic for some.. but at $15-$25 it would be more doable and if the model was inserted in the code as AI .. if you didn't want to buy the plane to activate the flyable for yourself someone on a server who did not have that particular plane would still be able to fly in a server that you were n.. Am I making sense? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
G-Lock91 Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 Boom!! And the Mod's come in and clean house :megalol: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If they can make penicillin out of moldy bread, they can certainly make something out of you" -Muhammad Ali WIN 7 64-bit SP1 | AMD Phenom II X4 955 | 8.0 GB RAM | NVidia GeForce GTX 550Ti | CH Pro Throttle | CH Fighterstick | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR5
Bearcat Posted May 26, 2012 Author Posted May 26, 2012 To EthearalN .. Good stuff .. thanks for the input .. as I said from the start ... it was just ideas and suggestions ... I am very pleased with this product and I will be so glad when they work out the FFB issue .. In the meantime I am just fiddling with it and the more I fiddle the sweeter the sound.. I mentioned the numbers I did because I spoke to a bunch of guys who are interested in this but they balked at the $40 per price tag when thinking "Well where is this going?" hence my less than $40 starting point.. I am not familiar with how DCS does business at all .. but I do like the product and do not plan on going anywhere any time soon GOD willing and the creek don't rise.. which is why I am posting here so I can find out .. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] AMD Fx-8350 | ASUS M5A99X EVO | EVGA 1050G PS | Corsair Force 3 240GSSD Samsung 840 EVO 500G SSD | 32G Corsair Vengance DDR3 | Seagate 1TB 7200RPMHD WD 2TB 7200 RPMHD XFX DD FX-HD 7870 2GB DDR5 | SB Xi-Fi APU | W7 U | TIR3 MSFFB2 | Saitek X-52|SaitekPro Pedals | Logitech Z-640 5.1 | ASUS VE248 24" LCD
WildBillKelsoe Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 I think the $40 per plane will not go over well .. no matter how well t is modeled .. In this economy people just do not have that kind of bread... The RoF model would work though so t would be a 10+ sales @ $40 vs 40+ sales @ $10 type of scenario.. and I think the latter would fly better than the former because the final numbers would be much higher at $10 per than $40 per.. Especially for folks who have already dropped full price for their other offerings... To expect someone to drop $40 continually for one plane is counterproductive IMO.. They could market it as a "If you by BS2 or FC2 or the DCS P-51 at full price you can get any WWII add ons (or any other era as well for tat matter) for $10 a plane/chopper with the code for each model built into updates so that if someone who had a plane/chopper that you didn't came on your server you would at least be able to see it..but you would have to buy the flyable..... that way they would kind of force people to at least look at their more modern offerings .. and who knows .. something might click. If not then they (DCS) still got $40 and you won't feel ripped off because you got something for your $40. They should market DCS world on either BS2, FC2 or the P-51 @ $40 and from there on out ... $10-$15 a pop per plane. I think it would fly .. I'd buy it .. so you multiply that $10-$15 per plane by the number of WWII simmers just chomping at the friggin bit for something that is this good.. and mind you .. I use a MSFFB2 so I still have yet to experience this product right... because my FFB does not work and I can't really fly with absolutely no resistance and I will not be buying a spring stick just for this, but what I have done n free flight is very very impressive.. If DCS could duplicate this just in models alone.. (as in one maybe two models of each.. a P-51B and a P-51D.. a FW F-9 and an F-9, A 109 Gustav and a Kurfurst etc... more is always better of course but I am just being practical I fully understand thast the IL2 model will probably never ever be duplicated as far as variants of AC goes) .. If they did that and introduced the AI version of each new plane/chopper as a free update people would gobble it up like viagra at the Playboy mansion. Maybe as time goes by $5-$10 for maps as well.. but you would have to have DCS world (which you could only get by buying BS2.FC2 or the P-51 initially) .. folks would buy it ... I'd be willing to bet money.. because this DCS stuff is that good.. As I said .. I have LOMAC and BS .. but I just couldn't get into them so I never really got into a DCS product till this Pony.... and it is friggin great!! Carpe Diem ........ because believe me .. you can... Quite a suggestion. Only problem is, the attitude is straightforward. ED ,de-nouveau, stated an Open simulation of sophistication, and no predilection to a period or a specific conflict. But it's good to check the pulse every once in a while. AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
Zolitnitsky Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 But 3rd party developers don't work for free any less than ED does. If you want DCS level work, you basically have to pay for it. If another company develops a plane to DCS standards, why would they have lower costs? I'd almost expect them to have higher costs since they would not have in-house access to the deep nuts and bolts and the coders that made the underlying tech. Trust me they'll get it if they think they need it - and they'll do so from the start. Do not underestimate how much it costs to develop these things.... Take all your salaries you'll earn throughout your entire working career, ...now add that you have to spend all of that money up front. That's a pretty big risk that's being taken.. And so is the reward, which I'm very convinced they know. I simply refuse to believe they're stupid. Let's assume I am disinterested in strategy games. Would I be more likely to purchase Starcraft 2 if it was half price? Not really. If I have no interest in playing Starcraft 2, it could be 5 dollars and I wouldn't pick it up. As Bearcat I more likely believe it's a question of marketing rather then interest. Though your exemplified figure have logic there are so much ells that comes down at the end of the day. And if you have too many side effects with the product that’s when people starts lose interest for real. As indicated, games get their prices reduced when they are older, inviting people that were price sensitive to purchase. This is why DCS A-10C is cheaper now (40 dollars) than it was at release (60 dollars). This is why DCS BS is 10 dollars. This is why ED does promotions on both its own site and steam where the prices are reduced temporarily. ..and they're all cracked we might add, by the more or less "price sensitive" community. Basic business. :smartass:
ALDEGA Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) Three DCS modules have been released up till now (including P-51D, which is still in beta). The first one (DCS:BS) was released in 2008 ... At the current rate ED is releasing modules, 40$ per module isn't a problem :D Unless multiple professional third party developers start creating modules, I don't think it will increase dramatically. Third party developers undoubtedly have to pay ED a commission on each sale (or something similar) since they're using ED's platform to generate profit. This makes it less likely that they'd sell it for a price lower than the one ED is charging at this point. Moreover ED needs to approve the third party projects as well. You'll be spending much more on hardware anyway (PC, HOTAS, TrackIR ...). Edited May 28, 2012 by ALDEGA
mmaruda Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Let's assume I am disinterested in strategy games. Would I be more likely to purchase Starcraft 2 if it was half price? Not really. If I have no interest in playing Starcraft 2, it could be 5 dollars and I wouldn't pick it up. Just like to comment on this one point. While you wouldn't pick it up, lots of people would just because it's a bargain. That is how Steam sales on weekends and holidays work. People buy games they have no interest in playing because they are cheap and maybe one day they will find an interest. I'm not saying this applies to all people, but some yes. Perhaps RoF would be better example - they have those sales and the effect is 90% of people who play the game (that I know of) have several planes they don't even fly - but they bought them, because the price was low. I don't think that $5 for a DCS plane will ever happen, but lowering prices from time to time might boost sales and attract more people to DCS - they may buy it because it's cheap, grow fond of it and buy the next plane at full price. This works in almost every business and is something worth considering. A huge problem is a lack of theatre for the P-51. Not everyone has to like this one particular plane and without a serious campaign the fun factor drops. I'd buy on the first day if it was the Focke-Wulf. Expanding the product line could help improve sales. That is the way with RoF again - people buy the plane they like and after some time start buying the planes they have no interest in, especially when they are at half-price. This is the part where a collectioner's approach kicks in.
SUBS17 Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 They may as well expand into WW2 stuff and hire more people it would earn them alot of money and their aircraft are awesome so people will buy it. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
Bearcat Posted May 29, 2012 Author Posted May 29, 2012 Not sure. If you mean that you wouldn't need the plane yourself in order to have people on your server fly them - that's already the case in DCS. Has been for years. Yes that is what I meant.. and actually that part of my statement was more of a question .. thanks to you and Tharos for cleaning that up.. Let's assume I am disinterested in strategy games. Would I be more likely to purchase Starcraft 2 if it was half price? Not really. If I have no interest in playing Starcraft 2, it could be 5 dollars and I wouldn't pick it up. Yes but the flight sim community is different anyway.. I don't think the folks who thought IL2 was a bit too challenging .. will have the stones for anything DCS.. I fully understand what you are saying .. I think the good thing about this whole DCS model is... you can buy what you want.. out of all the planes in IL2 I primarily fly allied AC .. I never fly axis AC.. so in this scenario I wouldn't buy them.. I'd buy what I liked to fly .. and for me personally .. I'd probably pay a few $$ more for certain AC ... but that's me.. I just think that overall $15-$25 ... even $30 will sell better as they add AC.. unless each new AC comes with some new content as well..There are some who will buy it regardless .. but for many no matter how much they want to $40 would be prohibitive several times a year.. (and that's assuming they released new stuff on some kind of regular schedule.. )Now if they only released one AC a year that would be different.. but then you'd be looking at what 3-5 years down the road just to get a reasonably accurate historical matchup in what is arguably the most accurate and detailed rendering of one particular WWII AC ever modeled.. and who knows what other stuff will be released by then by other folks.. DCS is gong to do what is best for their business and I understand that .. I am just curious to see how this will all pan out.. It is a great product though.. and in many ways it is it's own best salesman. ..and they're all cracked we might add, by the more or less "price sensitive" community. Basic business. Yes but on this I think that there are many who would just choose to not pay regardless of the price.. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] AMD Fx-8350 | ASUS M5A99X EVO | EVGA 1050G PS | Corsair Force 3 240GSSD Samsung 840 EVO 500G SSD | 32G Corsair Vengance DDR3 | Seagate 1TB 7200RPMHD WD 2TB 7200 RPMHD XFX DD FX-HD 7870 2GB DDR5 | SB Xi-Fi APU | W7 U | TIR3 MSFFB2 | Saitek X-52|SaitekPro Pedals | Logitech Z-640 5.1 | ASUS VE248 24" LCD
EtherealN Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 I don't think that $5 for a DCS plane will ever happen, but lowering prices from time to time might boost sales and attract more people to DCS That has never been under debate. As mentioned several times, ED already does have sales. ;) It's not long ago that DCS BS1 was 5 dollars. There was a sale where DCS A-10C was 20 dollars. All products have been discounted several times, at varying rates, throughout (AFAIK) all sales channels. The only exception is the P-51D; but that's of course because it is new. Hell, it isn't even actually released, still a beta product! :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
ED Team JimMack Posted May 29, 2012 ED Team Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) If it is of interest, my experience of Software Publishing started in 1982, when I set up Mirrorsoft. After the collapse of Mirrorsoft, when Maxwell went for a swim in the sea, I worked as the European CEO for Mindscape, SSI, Software Toolworks, The Learning Company and Mattel. The rule of thumb was to publish a title that gave 40 hours of satisfaction to the customer. It would be launched at full price, then after 6 months would be moved to mid price, then after 12 months moved into budget (called "value" in the USA), then would be de-listed. However, the flight sim market for TFC/ED seems to break the traditional "rule of thumb". It probably takes 40 hours to learn how to fly the aircraft! From feedback from the forums, many of our users still play after hundreds of hours. Our pricing is equivalent to taking your girlfriend/partner to a restaurant for 2 hours of pleasure! That is why FC2, Black Shark and A10C still hold their full price, both in retail and as downloads, years after their launch. Yes, we do have short term promotions at a reduced price, but our experience is that the products are not price sensitive, and have a very long shelf life. Before TFC/ED went into self publishing, we used Ubisoft as the publisher for Lock On (LOMAC). We are still getting royalty revenue for a title that was published in November 2003. Edited May 29, 2012 by JimMack Having problems? Visit http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Main_Page Dell Laptop M1730 -Vista- Intel Core 2 Duo T7500@2.2GHz, 4GB, Nvidia 8700MGT 767MB Intel i7 975 Extreme 3.2GHZ CPU, NVidia GTX 570 1.28Gb Pcie Graphics.
jctrnacty Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 40 dollars per plane is a good price perf.ratio if i realize the time i spend with the sim. No other genre offers as much as simulations.thanks ED for your work. [sigpic][/sigpic] MB MSI x570 Prestige Creation, RYzen 9 3900X, 32 Gb Ram 3333MHz, cooler Dark rock PRO 4, eVGA 1080Ti, 32 inch BenQ 32011pt, saitek X52Pro, HP Reverb, win 10 64bit
Bearcat Posted May 29, 2012 Author Posted May 29, 2012 If it is of interest, my experience of Software Publishing started in 1982, when I set up Mirrorsoft. After the collapse of Mirrorsoft, when Maxwell went for a swim in the sea, I worked as the European CEO for Mindscape, SSI, Software Toolworks, The Learning Company and Mattel. The rule of thumb was to publish a title that gave 40 hours of satisfaction to the customer. It would be launched at full price, then after 6 months would be moved to mid price, then after 12 months moved into budget (called "value" in the USA), then would be de-listed. However, the flight sim market for TFC/ED seems to break the traditional "rule of thumb". It probably takes 40 hours to learn how to fly the aircraft! From feedback from the forums, many of our users still play after hundreds of hours. Our pricing is equivalent to taking your girlfriend/partner to a restaurant for 2 hours of pleasure! That is why FC2, Black Shark and A10C still hold their full price, both in retail and as downloads, years after their launch. Yes, we do have short term promotions at a reduced price, but our experience is that the products are not price sensitive, and have a very long shelf life. Before TFC/ED went into self publishing, we used Ubisoft as the publisher for Lock On (LOMAC). We are still getting royalty revenue for a title that was published in November 2003. Thanks for the response... very helpful. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] AMD Fx-8350 | ASUS M5A99X EVO | EVGA 1050G PS | Corsair Force 3 240GSSD Samsung 840 EVO 500G SSD | 32G Corsair Vengance DDR3 | Seagate 1TB 7200RPMHD WD 2TB 7200 RPMHD XFX DD FX-HD 7870 2GB DDR5 | SB Xi-Fi APU | W7 U | TIR3 MSFFB2 | Saitek X-52|SaitekPro Pedals | Logitech Z-640 5.1 | ASUS VE248 24" LCD
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