CH Fighterstick + X45 or TM Warthog + wait till sale

Hi guys,

Been in a dilemma in the last little while...been really tempted by the TM warthog...just such a quality product. I would buy it in a heartbeat if i could get it at 350$....but in Canada, the cheapest I can find it is 450$ and add taxes to that...thats over 500$ which is just crazy insane for a gaming accessory.

On the other hand, I could go 120$ and get myself a CH fighterstick which is in my budget right now. But, I really want the two stage trigger... I am using button 2 on my X45 to enable PAC and then trigger to shoot and its fine, and my X45 is still working fine...but I really want to upgrade to a better quality stick.

So suggest which is better...

1) Get CH fighterstick now and get warthog in a year or two when I can afford it

2) Wait for december sales on warthog and just get the warthog straight up if I can get it with taxes in for 400$ or so.

thanks,

V

I don't recommend CH Fighterstick. Had one for many years, and it was constantly wearing out inside (potentiometers coming loose, wiring coming loose, potentiometers dying, etc.), requiring expensive and time-consuming repairs. I wasn't beating it up, either, although I was using it a lot. No hard yanking or slamming on the gimbals or anything.

Besides this, it's made for people with giant hands, meaning that some of the buttons may not be usable, and it's hard on the wrist because of how much rotation there is; more throw is generally good for control, but when there's only a six-inch moment arm, too much throw can be awkward to utilize, especially if you rest your elbow on an armrest.

Also, the spring has a funny two-way action which is ... um, there's a sort of a "click" when you're trying to both roll and pitch at the same time. The stick doesn't like it when you're moving it diagonally, and it kinda fights you when you do so. This doesn't mean you can't fly effectively with it--you can. But it doesn't feel remotely like a real aircraft stick (I mean, even less than usual for a simming joystick).

Thanks very much for your feedback. I really want to get the warthog....if I can find it for somewhere in the 350$ range then with taxes I can get it for 400$ which is the most I can rationalize for it. Part of the reason is my X45 still works perfectly...so justifying the purchase of another hotas which is 5 times its price while the other one is still working is a bit hard.

But the fighterstick I read about the two springs issue and diagonal movement issue. But everywhere I read reviews people say its a very very reliable and long lasting stick.

I would recommend grabbing a Thrustmaster T.16000M while you save up for the Warthog. But my recommendation comes with a few warnings. The T-16000M is more precise in the center than the CH Fighterstick, although it has less throw (which, as explained before, is both good and bad). One major problem I've observed in the T.16000M is outside-edge dead zones. There's zero dead zone in the middle, but many of the individual sticks (4 out of the 8 I've examined either in person or over TS3) have large (~13%) dead zones at the edges. In my case, I have a 12.5% dead zone at the back, so when I'm pulling my joystick back 90% I.R.L., then my virtual stick in the sim is being pulled back 100%. This can really suck if I'm trying to save some E, or ride the edge of a stall, or something like that. I also have smaller dead zones on the other edges, but these don't bother me as much because getting 100% aileron when I meant to have 90% aileron doesn't significantly hamper me.

All that said, even with this problem and others--such as very small number of buttons, and plastic parts which wear out faster than CH's plastic parts (although, on the flip side, there being no pots to replace, no spiking or loss of sensor precision)--the T.16000M is still the best joystick I've used so far, and for only about $40 U.S. (it was $20 when I got it). Also, if you don't have rudder pedals, the T.16000M does have twist. Unfortunately, if you do have pedals, there's no lock on the twist. Of course, you can simply unbind it, and if it still bothers you to have your stick moving in a manner that it shouldn't, well, some of my buddies used duct tape on theirs (yes, seriously).

In the end, both CH Fighterstick and Thrustmaster T.16000M are well-above-average joysticks, and I've known top-scoring fliers who use both. But while the overall quality (subjective as that is) of the two is fairly equivalent, the T.16000M is about a third of the price of the Fighterstick. This, as well as because I find it more comfortable and less troublesome, is why I recommend the T.16000M over the Fighterstick, as long as you're okay with only having two buttons other than a trigger and a hat. Good luck, regardless of your decision.

I have CH pro fighterstick and pro throttle , pedals. no complaints from here and A-10C flies like butter, let alone mustang. really content.

CH Pedals aren't as bad as Logitech pedals, but still I find them very problematic. Aside from suffering the same internal durability problems I mentioned with the Fighterstick, the CH pedals have a hard "clicking" at the center. Whether due to a detent or the spring, the effect is that very fine motions are nigh-impossible because the "click" fights you until you push hard--then it suddenly gives way, so you get maybe a 2-millimeter motion instead of the 0.5 millimeter motion you wanted. Years of experience with these pedals didn't change this. But a worse problem still is the pedal distance--as I explained in this other thread, the CH pedals are set much too close together for a fighter, effectively reducing precision (it also exacerbates the click problem). Now, I'll grant, they're much better than no pedals at all, and you can still fly rather well with them. But they're not something I'd ever buy again, unless there were no other viable option.

I actually tried out the T16000. I hated it after getting used to the X45. I am used to the hats, the button layout of a hotas. The buttons on the base of the T16000 are so useless...no labels...hard to remember which button was mapped to which...and in terms of DCS A-10, the T16000 is so hard to map. The X45 atleast allows me to map the DMS hat, TMS hat. But I must agree..the stick was definitely good...the hall sensor based movement was distinctly diff from the X45 and so much nicer.

Personally, I am dead set on either sticking with the X45 or upgrading fighterstick and use X45 throttle or just go all out for warthog.

But based on what you have been recommending, I think its better just to wait and go all out for the warthog rather than spend 150$ in between. Just save that for the warthog.

Warthog ;) It's worth the wait!

Yeah, given those two choices, I'd definitely wait. Again, I'd not say that the CH is a bad stick, compared to what's generally available on the market, but it is not worth the price, I.M.O.

Wow, first I have heard about a CH product doing that Echo38. I had my first CH HOTAS for 7 seven and it worked perfectly the whole time. I traded a guy in these forums for a FCC modded cougar. After having the cougar for a short time I traded a guy on another forum for CH HOTAS again. I don't know how old or how he treated them but they work perfectly fine also. I do plan on buying a warthog or cougar, but this time I will be keeping my CH as a backup in case I decide to sale the other.

I had a X45 and loved it, but after 6 months of hard use it developed centering issues. If it was made more like the quality of CH, I'd still have it today!

I have also no probs with my fighterstick so far.

And I also use it with the x45 trhottle.

Together they work well for the Ka-50, no probs with the A-10 and work almost perfect for the F-16. ;)

I switched from the X45 to the Warthog more than one year ago and in my opinion it was definitely worth the upgrade. However, since the X45 is not a bad HOTAS (I still have mine lying around), I would not buy the Fighterstick, save the money and go for the Warthog as soon as you can afford it.

I should also mention that both of the two pairs of CH pedals I owned (the first gameport, the second USB) came defective; the second one had a toe brake not functional when it arrived. They had to be opened up and wiring replaced. The first one had the car/plane switch functioning backwards (so selecting plane went into automobile mode and vice versa), which wasn't worth fixing, but it still indicates that CH quality control isn't that good.

Oh! I nearly forgot--my CH Combat Stick (same as the Fighterstick, except fewer hat switches) also has the outer-edge dead-zone problem that the T.16000M; granted, because of the CH's greater throw, these dead zones comprise a smaller percentage of wasted range of motion, but it still was a problem.

While I replaced my ch with a warthog, I certainly have zero complaints about the fighterstick. Extremely durable and forever reliable..

Wow! Glad to hear hear from so many users who used the X45. Sorcer3r..... how do u use the throttle alone with the fighterstick? The throttle connects to stick of X45 using gameport which then connects to pc via USB. Do u have both connected and just use the fighterstick and X45 throttle while the X45 stick is lying aside?

But yeah....I think I'll wait as u guys say....I'll wait till december/january and hopefully I can find a sale for the thrustmaster warthog.

thanks everyone.

Good choice to wait. I liked my x45, its been years since I had it but I replaced it with the CH gear. The CH stuff was as good as new when I sold it for the warthog, it does last.

BTW, the warthog stick is the same size as the CH stick. They are both replicas so if your hands are too small for the fighterstick then they are too small for the hog. I manage and so does an awful lot of pilots so I reckon you will be OK :)

yeah! I think I have small hands...the X45 is fine...but I have been reading that its a stretch to reach the switches behind with the pointing finger. But I think I can make it work. Just need to find a good deal. :p

Wow Echo38, you've had your issues to be sure! Probably THE unluckiest CH Products user EVER! I've been using the same FighterStick for the past eleven years of daily use with out fail. Still works as it did as the day I brought it home from CH Products (yes, the factory). I've beta tested variations of the ProThrottle, and Throttle Quadrant so I can't say I have my original versions of those. My MFPs are still in use and are the older white labeled ones. One of them is my beta unit. My ProPedals admitidly have been repaired (left toe brake wire). All in all though build quality (for me) is still the best.

Do u have both connected and just use the fighterstick and X45 throttle while the X45 stick is lying aside?

Yep its somewhere below the desk... ;)

Maybe it could work with a gameport-usb adapter but I havent tested it yet.

Ah. makes sense. Thanks! Well... the wait begins. :p

Yep its somewhere below the desk... ;)

Maybe it could work with a gameport-usb adapter but I havent tested it yet.

Dont work - X-45 throttle have more buttons that gameport adapter handle. In this HOTAS the USB controller is inside joystick base - throttle is "brainless", what explain these ''mods'':

http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-45mod_0.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/848/x45t5.jpg/

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg860/scaled.php?server=860&filename=x45tqsmod3ks.jpg&res=landing

X-45 stick merged in X-45 throttle base. :smilewink:

Sokol1

server=860&filename=x45tqsmod3ks.jpg&res=landing

 

X-45 stick merged in X-45 throttle base. :smilewink:

 

Sokol1

:thumbup:

woah! Thats wicked throttle Sokol.

Awesome. Do you sell one? :)

Update: Had an old best buy gift card with credit from a defective Sony PS3 LCD 3d TV that I returned... My hotas warthog has been ordered. Arrival estimate: 1 week. :p Hope FC3 is out. ;)