Su-27 for DCS World

[GGTharos]

It just increases the force on the stick, so it's like a detent, AFAIK. Just pull the stick harder.

 

AFAIK... i remember hearing about it in a documentary.

[GGTharos]

The F-15C has no limiter. There is an emergency switch in case something goes bad with the pitch ratio, which sets the pitch ratio to a specific value. And of course, you can turn the entirety of the CAS off.

 

Nice! I never knew about this.

Do you know why F-15C does not have such a switch? Because one does not put steering wheel on a rock.

[Exorcet]

It would be pointless for such a thing, advantage of su-35 is in its avonics which you would be unable to make much use of with a simple systems unless one cares about simply carrying more powerful weapons rather than aircraft quality.

That's good enough for MP. I wouldn't mind seeing what would essentially amount to current Flankers with R-77. Not much different from fighting AI Su-30's with human pilots from my point of the view (which is in the F-15). I like flying with my 6 AIM-120 load out, but sometimes I wish it didn't completely out class the other side's weapons and no one seems to like MiG-29's.

[GGTharos]

It doesn't. It isn't anywhere near where it should be.

 

... but sometimes I wish it didn't completely out class the other side's weapons ...

[Witchking]

It just increases the force on the stick, so it's like a detent, AFAIK. Just pull the stick harder.

 

Its been a while, but I remember the pilot saying...you disable the AoA limiter and then yank the stick to pull off the cobra.

 

Yes, it has a switch to disable or enable the COC AoA and G limiter. See the little square in the pic.

 

If the SAS system on the DCS F-15C can be turned on and off i guess we could make the same in the future Su-27AFM.

 

More difficult could be to code the Proportional Control Unit on the bigger square.

 

 

That seems like it. Yeah...perhaps if they can give us a single value...limit the AoA to the normal levels (and normal G-loads) and then disable it to allow you to pull even more g when attempting a cobra.

 

Either way, I guess we won't know unless Dima clarifies it himself.

[ff4life4]

Side question... Is there any difference between AFM and PFM. In Belsimtek's website, they mentioned the F15 project and they called it AFM there... Is the difference in name only? Or is the f15 flight model more accurate than A10c, Su25 etc

[Esac_mirmidon]

I think, i´m not sure because i need to read again the manual, that it´s more like GG told before.

 

The AoA and G limiter works as a detend. You must push or pull harder on the stick to reach the limits. The near you are to the limit, the harder you must push or pull until you reach a point where the stick makes a bounce in the opposite direction to stop pilots control inputs, not allowing him to pull or push more.

 

If you disable the AoA and G limiter then this bounce against you reaching the limit don´t enter but you have to make A LOT of pressure over the stick over the limits and the manual says that turning off the limiter doesn´t help for better handling or extra maneouvering.

 

For me the most interesting thing about the Su-27 AFM code is: Could ED be able to reproduce the CDY functions like the Take Off and Landing CDY modes or Auto mode? And the proportional control for the CDY and the FBW system? Could be tunned up and down the FBY response? Could be possible to turn off the CDY channels?

 

This could be very interesting and a very hard system to code.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Esac_mirmidon

[Witchking]

Side question... Is there any difference between AFM and PFM. In Belsimtek's website, they mentioned the F15 project and they called it AFM there... Is the difference in name only? Or is the f15 flight model more accurate than A10c, Su25 etc

 

The F-15 model is more "detailed" than the A-10A, Su-25.... but not the A-10C. The A-10C has ASM which means more modelling incorporating things such as electrical systems and damage in a certain area of the aircraft might accordingly damage the corresponding system. More specifically, their example was that even the compression distance of the hydraulics in the landing gear is exactly modelled dynamically. This is probably modelled to a limited extent with the A-10A and Su-25, but the feel is still very similar.

 

All the DCS level modules are PFM and ASM, but the F-15 is PFM alone...(similar to what the Su-27 will be). The idea is these can be later developed into full fledged DCS level modules.

[Witchking]

I think, i´m not sure because i need to read again the manual, that it´s more like GG told before.

 

The AoA and G limiter works as a detend. You must push or pull harder on the stick to reach the limits. The near you are to the limit, the harder you must push or pull until you reach a point where the stick makes a bounce in the opposite direction to stop pilots control inputs, not allowing him to pull or push more.

 

If you disable the AoA and G limiter then this bounce against you reaching the limit don´t enter but you have to make A LOT of pressure over the stick over the limits and the manual says that turning off the limiter doesn´t help for better handling or extra maneouvering.

 

For me the most interesting thing about the Su-27 AFM code is: Could ED be able to reproduce the CDY functions like the Take Off and Landing CDY modes or Auto mode? And the proportional control for the CDY and the FBW system? Could be tunned up and down the FBY response? Could be possible to turn off the CDY channels?

 

This could be very interesting and a very hard system to code.

 

Good to know. I didn't know that detail about how it functions. I also think I read somewhere on these forums that most pilots in the russian knights fly with the AoA limiter turned off.

[GGTharos]

AFM simulates just the advanced flight model. PFM improves the FM a bit, and also simulates precisely the flight control systems, hydraulics, engines, etc.

 

Side question... Is there any difference between AFM and PFM. In Belsimtek's website, they mentioned the F15 project and they called it AFM there... Is the difference in name only? Or is the f15 flight model more accurate than A10c, Su25 etc

[ff4life4]

Thank you guys. That clears it up!

[OB1]

As we are dwelling on the Su's limiter, from memory and as said before the limiter can be turned off or pulled through. If someone can confirm but I believe its approximately 15kg force to pull through, and with the limiter it restricts the aircraft's AoA to 27.5 Degrees ? Possible departure/stall being approx 33 Deg ?

[Esac_mirmidon]

For lateral control the limiter cuts the stick movement to 1/3 with 7 kg resistance. For rudder pedals, the same 1/3 movement limitation and 17 Kg resistance.

[GGTharos]

It was a joke.

[GGTharos]

You can pull to 35-36-38deg AoA in F-15C, but the plane won't be happy. Probably very similar (but not the same) for Su-27.

 

You have different effects at different AoA numbers combined with AC weight AND altitude ... so saying x degrees = stall is not entirely correct.

 

As we are dwelling on the Su's limiter, from memory and as said before the limiter can be turned off or pulled through. If someone can confirm but I believe its approximately 15kg force to pull through, and with the limiter it restricts the aircraft's AoA to 27.5 Degrees ? Possible departure/stall being approx 33 Deg ?

[Kenan]

It was a joke.

 

It wasn't a joke. One of the ED guys posted in russian forums about possibility of Su-27 PFM being released in June. Of course, it wasn't official and it was not set in stone, but no, it certainly wasn't a joke.

 

You know I never joke, right? :D

[uboats]

It wasn't a joke. One of the ED guys posted in russian forums about possibility of Su-27 PFM being released in June. Of course, it wasn't official and it was not set in stone, but no, it certainly wasn't a joke.

 

You know I never joke, right? :D

 

Is that Yo-yo? Could you share the link?

[Witchking]

Man.. I can't wait for the flanker Pfm. It's going to be awesome.

After that... ED can work on the su-33 and mig-29. :p

[Kenan]

Is that Yo-yo? Could you share the link?

 

Someone posted the link in one of the threads here. Can't remember who but I know it was from russian forums and one of the ED staff posted about it.

 

He said something along the lines that SU27 PFM is being developed as planned and it might be released in June..but as I said, it wasn't an official statement so..

[*Rage*]

Over in the russian forums they said summer probably for beta release.

[Steph]

Video : Wip PFM SU27 ( December 2013 ).

 

[OB1]

You can pull to 35-36-38deg AoA in F-15C, but the plane won't be happy. Probably very similar (but not the same) for Su-27.

 

You have different effects at different AoA numbers combined with AC weight AND altitude ... so saying x degrees = stall is not entirely correct.

 

Yes indeed, cobra for example has the AoA in excess of 90deg but 33deg is floating around in my mind and not sure what it is, is why I ask. Could be its unsustainable limit ? But thats rather vuage too as you could say tha about all aircraft trying to sustain an AoA thats not sustainable.. I don't know but something about 33deg was associated with the su-27. But one thing im almost certain on is the 27.5 being the AoA limiter. I wish someone out there can tell me EVERYTHING ! :)

[BronzeBuddha]

Here's a video of an airshow by the old Su-35 with a weapons load. Seems quite impressive.

 

[uboats]

During the waiting, what I can do is to enjoy this video more than one time everyday before the release

 

Edited July 3, 2014 by uboats

[uboats]

Just learnt from Russian forum that Su27 pfm is moved to Fall, do not expect it during summer.

 

Срок Су-27 передвигается на осень.

В ближайшее время выйдет F-86F, а в августе Fw 190 D-9.

Trans:

Term of the Su-27 is moved in the fall.

In the near future there will F-86F, and in August the Fw 190 D-9.