Bug Reports / Testing Process / Updates?

[NineLine]

Look at ATC. They have sent it out to us not working correctly. That is that is the way they do it. What would be nice is something that would say ( This.......is not working 100% because we are........) But lets hope that this limited resourced company can deal with having two sim engines to work on.

 

 

They said that an ATC revamp was in the works, but it was hindered by changes in the team, as far as I know this is still in the plans, but I have a feeling right now the focus is on getting the new engine in place.

 

This to me is acknowledging an issue with it, but you need the resources to make these changes. So right now its down the list compared to other things. It doesnt cause a block, it works ok till they can make improvements.

[Snoopy]

Thanks Paul. It must be extremely frustrating for the testers who test the crap out of this stuff and not have ED worry whether things get released broken or not. :(

 

To be clear that's not what I said.

[Rider1]

To be clear that's not what I said.

 

Noted and redacted. My apologies.

[kazereal]

Is it possible for the community to get updates on bugs reports being worked like a bug tracker with a possible ECD?

 

Looking back at various other promising projects the communications have often been the cornerstone of how long-lived a project is. Not just flight simulations but other software projects, especially in Linux-world, are easily forked/branched or redone when communication fails between developers anyway. Some examples are XFree86 -> X.org, OpenOffice.org -> LibreOffice and so on.

 

Now, this is of course different than commercial software with obvious interest in keep the source code only between developers etc. But the root cause to start competing products is often the same that involved parties don't work together well. This is known to happen.

 

Opening list of "known bugs" (maybe just public-reported and not internally discovered bugs?) would at least communicate the status a bit more that problems are known and being looked into instead of just ignored?

 

Anyway, that's my view on this.

[Rider1]

So it seems like it is mosty human resources problem then?

[NineLine]

Opening list of "known bugs" (maybe just public-reported and not internally discovered bugs?) would at least communicate the status a bit more that problems are known and being looked into instead of just ignored?

 

An open list of bugs could also cause issues like this where people feel their bug of choice isnt getting the attention it deserves, really it would do nothing more than what the forums do now. It wont make things move faster or cause people from being upset about this bug or that bug.

[Ranger79]

Probably best just to wait it out at this stage of proceedings.

 

EDGE is being integrated into the entire code-base and until that is complete and there exists a single, unified platform with which to move forward with any attempt at contemplating any type of 'public' bug-reporting system is not even worth contemplating.

 

In any event, sitting on this side of the fence (tester) I am firmly of the opinion that any type of public reporting system will be a disaster. Forum reports, as currently in use, are just about the best for this (ED's) particular set of circumstances.

 

I disagree, we need info, that's the problem. So we just try to work with broken patches until EDGE? Not acceptable.

[NineLine]

I disagree, we need info, that's the problem. So we just try to work with broken patches until EDGE? Not acceptable.

 

What info are you not getting that you think you need?

[Ranger79]

What info are you not getting that you think you need?

 

Simple, like the forum topic originally asked status of bug fixes. It is not only me who wants this info it's most of the community.

[NineLine]

I am note sure what you are expecting, they cant update the status of bugs on a daily or weekly basis, it doesnt work like that, you get a status update when they are reported, a number of times we have posted in the forums that the issue has been found and fixed, and of course in the patch notes you see issues that are fixed.

 

All it would take is for you to get a bug update to early saying it was fixed, then it doesnt make it into the next patch for whatever reason, and everyone is upset again. Its a lose/lose situation. The communication they have right now is the best they can do with how DCS World is developed.

 

ATC is a prefect example, they announced that revamp early, issues happened on their end, and now everyone goes on about it with silly comments like ED doesnt care about ATC or they like putting out broken things... in fact ATC is the prefect reason behind the communication levels you see now.

Edited May 26, 2014 by NineLine

[159th_Viper]

Simple, like the forum topic originally asked status of bug fixes. It is not only me who wants this info it's most of the community.

 

Status: Bug fixes are ongoing.

 

To demand status reports on said fixes over and above what is already provided for in the relevant dedicated forums/subforums is asking a wee bitty much. It's simple: Report the bug in the relevant forum and exercise the necessary patience while you wait for it to be fixed. No amount of secondary access to the internal bug database is going to speed up the process. If anything, it will hinder it - too many Indians etc etc.

[Ranger79]

Status: Bug fixes are ongoing.

 

To demand status reports on said fixes over and above what is already provided for in the relevant dedicated forums/subforums is asking a wee bitty much. It's simple: Report the bug in the relevant forum and exercise the necessary patience while you wait for it to be fixed. No amount of secondary access to the internal bug database is going to speed up the process. If anything, it will hinder it - too many Indians etc etc.

 

You have your opinion I have mine. The info provided is not relevant, hurry up and wait and hope a fix happens in a few months is pretty unacceptable.

[NineLine]

You have your opinion I have mine. The info provided is not relevant, hurry up and wait and hope a fix happens in a few months is pretty unacceptable.

 

Its not clear on how you would improve communications.

[Ranger79]

Its not clear on how you would improve communications.

 

First post:

 

Is it possible for the community to get updates on bugs reports being worked like a bug tracker with a possible ECD? From the interaction so far not going to happen

 

What is the Quality Control process for a release candidate (update) to the community? Not answered

 

Who decides which bugs are priority and which are not? Not answered

 

How does the process involving the ED Test team work? Partially answered

[NineLine]

I am not sure what your hopes are with any of these answers. Are you hoping bugs wont happen anymore? All the answers are right there in front of you, ED does the best they can with resources they have, is it perfect? No. Do they enjoy when something is broken, or slips through to a release broken? No.

 

Can there be improvements? Sure. Is this thread going to bring them about or reveal something they hadnt thought about and discussed... highly doubtful.

 

First post:

 

Is it possible for the community to get updates on bugs reports being worked like a bug tracker with a possible ECD? From the interaction so far not going to happen

 

What is the Quality Control process for a release candidate (update) to the community? Not answered

 

Who decides which bugs are priority and which are not? Not answered

 

How does the process involving the ED Test team work? Partially answered

Edited May 26, 2014 by NineLine

[Rider1]

Here is my wild ass theory that I came up with while cleaning my house. :) May be way off base, but it is probable.

 

ED has been, and is a developer for military grade training aids and simulators. These government contracts are very lucrative and may be EDs bread and butter. ED cannot afford to have bugs and issues in the software deliverable to defense agencies.

 

I can't really see some student on an AC130 trainer saying to his superior, "I have tried everything by procedure and the gun ready light just will not light up. The contractor keeps telling us that they are aware of the issue and will release a patch to fix it "When It Is Done."

 

Beings that ED has a good working relationship and reputation with the US military and others, I would suspect that these contracts would require a nearly perfect deliverable, if not, ED might find themselves not winning bids for new lucrative government contracts..

 

So, it is my personal opinion, from various postings here and other websites, the developers that work on these government projects also work on the video game DCS world.

 

We have also heard time and again that ED is a small company with a small group of developers.. The obvious solution is to ramp up production by adding more qualified developers to the team..

 

However, it may be tough to find and hire qualified developers in Russia that could obtain whatever security clearances are required by the US and others. Some things may be classified, and even though Russia is no longer our enemy, they are not our buddies. Security would be a concern for sure.

 

So ED gets a defense contract and it is all hands on deck, with DCSW on the back burner, until time allows for bug fixes and new features to continue. (Lets get it out there while we have the time. We broke some things, but we will have to revisit these issues as time permits.)

 

So, do you think it would be a true statement to say that ED is/has become a government defense contractor first, and a video game developer as time permits?

Edited May 26, 2014 by Rider1

[cichlidfan]

So, we know the developers that work on these government projects also work on the video game DCS world.

 

Unless you have a source for this, the rest is meaningless.

[Silver_Dragon]

Unless you have a source for this, the rest is meaningless.

 

The "old" Battle Simulator page.... show military projects by ED

 

http://www.thebattlesim.com/

 

The "old" Jim video on ITEC 2010

 

 

Project 9 and others EDGE military / AVIA / Concord XXI / Dinamika, etc and search deep on the Russian forum to found some interesting "Russian military projects" with ED collaborate (some Sukhoi examples).

Edited May 26, 2014 by Silver_Dragon

[cichlidfan]

The "old" Battle Simulator page.... show military projects by ED

 

http://www.thebattlesim.com/

 

The "old" Jim video on ITEC, Project 9 and others EDGE military / AVIA / Concord XXI, etc and search deep on the Russian forum to found some interesting "Russian military projects" with ED collaborate (some Sukhoi examples).

 

The same company does not mean the same workers/coders.

[Rider1]

The same company does not mean the same workers/coders.

 

Unless you have source for this, it is meaningless too. :)

Edited May 26, 2014 by Rider1

[NineLine]

Got source? :)

 

 

He did state it as a fact, but that it was possible.

[SkateZilla]

How'd we go from Bug Reports/Testing to Government Contracts and Such?

[NineLine]

How'd we go from Bug Reports/Testing to Government Contracts and Such?

 

It happened while Rider1 was cleaning his house I think....

[Ranger79]

It happened while Rider1 was cleaning his house I think....

 

Lol

[SkateZilla]

Unless you have a source for this, the rest is meaningless.

 

DCS A-10C is the consumer version of the A-10C Training Platform developed for USAF and/or ANG.

 

As for testing/bug reporting.

 

I Dont test for ED, but I have beta tested for other flight sims, as well as Other gaming platforms, and they were all pretty much the same way,

 

There was never any Publicly Available Bug Database in any of them, and I'm talkin at least 30 Games 8 Operating Systems, and Several Game Systems/Platforms,

 

With about 9 being PC Flight Sims.

 

Any Bugs reported after the Software went public were entered by someone on the Dev Team and acknowledged.

 

Public Bug Databases are RARE. For the simple reason that when you have a million people submitting the same bug under different numbers, it gets overly repetitive and cluttered.

 

Restricting users to posting on a Bulletin Board/Forum and having Devs filter through them, removes 1000 people posting duplicate bugs into the database.

Edited May 26, 2014 by SkateZilla
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