AN/APG-63v3 and JHMCS?

[Kev2go]

Whatever route ED goes, they should make sure to specify which block/flight/model/year for their aircraft (which they have been doing). Other than that, I do hope we get an F-15 from beyond the 70s.. Though I highly doubt we'll get an AESA radar anytime soon, I do think that ED can implement missing features into the current APG-63 (ECCM techniques, ECM Ranging, RF Sniffing, TWS angle on jam, Manual Gain Control, etc.)

 

Also, anyone worried about balancing in DCS should you should go fly an arcade game. The majority of us enjoy the simulation, and some of us are tired of the spoon feed "AAA" "games" on the market.

 

Some countries build better weapons/sensors/aircraft than others.. Deal with it. I hope ED brings all of the best systems from every nation around the world. Here's to hoping the R-27P/EP makes it someday.

 

perhaps not a AESA eagle but i dont see why we cant get a F15C MSIP 2 with Mid life update circa early 2000s which is what we basically have now in FC3, ( minus Link 16 capability, and some missing radar functions). wouldn't be much more to throw in JHMCS and aim9x as AFAIk these feature is not unique to the AESA eagles.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Kev2go

[The Black Swan]

"Sarcastic one line response to a sarcastic comment. Just saaaaaaaaayin'. :D"

 

I know, I just can't resist a good discussion about the F-18 :D

 

"Data link is definitely nice. It makes killing the 1v1 air to air mentality just that much easier for the uninitiated, which is just perfect. ATFLIR ought to be cool too, but I think that really comes down to what other ID capabilities we'll get in the Bug...Like, do I want that pod or do I want an AMRAAM?"

 

But we are initiated aren't we? :megalol:

In a 1v1 an ATFLIR could let you watch for an ET and thus save flares.

That's not even getting into stealthy tracking tactics.

 

"The radar, I'd imagine, is somewhat on par with what we currently have in the Eagle, probably with more functionality for certain things. The range and stuff is important though for the Bug because your acceleration sucks, so getting a clear picture and getting the commit started from early on is a priority."

 

Not sure about it being on par, the APG-73 is what was used on Super bugs.

One other thing (IIRC) the 73 has an extra 5 degrees for cranking.

 

"More missiles brings a bunch of other problems. Look, mach 1.4, 1.5, whatever, that's great - How long does it take you to reach that? That's the problem. And that's where the Eagle will dominate the Hornet. Another thing here: Can you afford to go over the Mach? Do you have the gas to do it? That might be an issue too."

 

- A quick glance at some charts shows at 30,000 ft with 2 aim-7 and 2 aim-9 takes 3 and a half to 4 mins to get to M1.5 From M.6 or M.7 That's without upgraded engines, which add 20% more thrust IIRC.

- Hornet fuel usage has been exaggerated IMO. At good altitude it won't be that bad.

 

Overall yes the eagle dominates here, but only if the hornets better SA fails to let the pilot plan ahead.

 

"Also, I'm typically operating under the assumption that the AIM-9X is completely unaffected by flares."

 

Now THAT would be overpowered! :D

 

You know what else would? If ED models the towable decoys. :matrix:

[Sweep]

On the ATFLIR, IDK about ETs...I mean, you should be eyes out and expecting the shot...But if you can zoom in enough it should give you an idea of the threat's configuration, which is helpful (I've done that pre-merge in the A-10, long time ago...). A/A TGPs for the win, though, no matter how ya use 'em. L16 track file-->Radar track-->ATLFIR handoff might be a fun thing to try, assuming you don't get masked in maneuvering and lose track!

 

The APG-73 is a development of the APG-65 is a development of......The APG-63. APG-70s came from the -63 as well, after all. The Eagle's gonna have the bigger radar, BUT, it doesn't perform up to the expectations of some. So it should be on par in range performance. As for functionality and other things , who knows. Stuff like TWS memory or various radar submodes are just gone in the Eagle, so the Bug should have some better stuff in that regard.

 

I'm looking at the App B stuff for the Eagle with -220s...Lol. Not to make it a complete urination contest, but the Eagle, at 40k, with 8 missiles and a bag (48,000lbs), goes Mach .8 to 1.5 in 180-190 seconds. That's standard day. Not sure where the Hornet is best at accelerating, though, in terms of altitude...The Eagle loves 36,000ft for that thing. :joystick:

 

A lot of the fun SA tools (datalink/HMD/TGP) are great, but the core ability of taking your radar and the radars of your wingmen and putting them into one big picture...That's something that no amount of fun SA tools will make up for. You and whoever else ya fly with probably do that just fine (you talk like you can, at least!). Dunno about some randoms off the street, though. That's why I hope this stuff forces people to learn how to build more SA to use offensively. We all get cool stuff, people learn more about fighting other simulated aircraft...Sounds like a win/win to me!

 

You want towed decoys? Go bark at Skate to make that Rhino flyable! Pretty sure they have ALE-50s...Don't think the Legacies do, though. :D

[GGTharos]

Not sure about it being on par, the APG-73 is what was used on Super bugs.

One other thing (IIRC) the 73 has an extra 5 degrees for cranking.

 

It isn't on par, but hard to say how it will be modeled. Eagle radar has far more range and ECCM vs the 65, the 73 probably closes the gap on ECCM a lot. But then again who knows :)

And no, it doesn't have any extra degrees for cranking...compared to an eagle anyway (not modeled in game though)

 

- A quick glance at some charts shows at 30,000 ft with 2 aim-7 and 2 aim-9 takes 3 and a half to 4 mins to get to M1.5 From M.6 or M.7 That's without upgraded engines, which add 20% more thrust IIRC.

- Hornet fuel usage has been exaggerated IMO. At good altitude it won't be that bad.

 

The problem is that it cannot easily fly at 'altitude' with a 'serious' payload. And at that altitude, an eagle is going to get to that same mach in less time - more than whole minute at 40000' so even better at 30000' - and with a lot more more payload. Specifically 0-4-4-1 at 46000lbs - almost fresh off the tanker. ;)

 

So yes, the hornet is 'that bad'.

 

Overall yes the eagle dominates here, but only if the hornets better SA fails to let the pilot plan ahead.

 

Huh? How's the eagle going to be behind in SA? :)

 

"Also, I'm typically operating under the assumption that the AIM-9X is completely unaffected by flares."

 

Now THAT would be overpowered! :D

 

There's nothing OP about reality. You'd need a pretty special flare to decoy a 9X.

[microvax]

Isnt a 73 just a 65 antenna with a 70 [strike eagle] transmitter receiver and electronics etc. ?

[OnlyforDCS]

I am suggesting just slapping the JHMCS (that are/did) make for the Hornet onto the F15C at or near the release of the Hornet for balance

 

 

Don't you find it kind of ironic that you are asking for an upgrade to what is arguably still the best air to air platform in the game (and probably will be even after the Hornet's arrival), while at the same time there is not a single 4th generation Soviet jet module on the development horizon, and that the reason for your ask is balance? :D

[frixon28]

Don't you find it kind of ironic that you are asking for an upgrade to what is arguably still the best air to air platform in the game (and probably will be even after the Hornet's arrival), while at the same time there is not a single 4th generation Soviet jet module on the development horizon, and that the reason for your ask is balance? :D

 

In the merge the Eagle is dead, and with the whole no 4th generation Russian thing, its been discussed hundreds of times. ED tried a Flanker and they couldnt do it, maybe an export early Fulcrum eventually, which will still be far inferior.

I brought this up because if the Hornet has JHMCS than so should the Eagle. Flankers and Fulcrums will still be great in the air to air world. So sorry I find no irony

[IASGATG]

In the merge the Eagle is dead, and with the whole no 4th generation Russian thing, its been discussed hundreds of times. ED tried a Flanker and they couldnt do it, maybe an export early Fulcrum eventually, which will still be far inferior.

I brought this up because if the Hornet has JHMCS than so should the Eagle. Flankers and Fulcrums will still be great in the air to air world. So sorry I find no irony

 

 

An F-18 with 9X modelled correctly will kill just about anything at close range, simply because the 9X cannot be spoofed by flares. However, in the merge without 9X, I'm confident the flanker and eagle will still spank the Bug. JHMCS is nice, but it isn't going to be such a game changer that the Eagle gets consistently wrecked.

[Sweep]

In the merge the Eagle is dead, and with the whole no 4th generation Russian thing, its been discussed hundreds of times. ED tried a Flanker and they couldnt do it, maybe an export early Fulcrum eventually, which will still be far inferior.

I brought this up because if the Hornet has JHMCS than so should the Eagle. Flankers and Fulcrums will still be great in the air to air world. So sorry I find no irony

 

Why is the Eagle dead?

 

I'll tell you why; because you aren't thinking about entering the merge the right way.

 

Watch and learn...Also this is 1v1, and you probably don't want that...

 

[GGTharos]

I wouldn't say 'just' :)

 

Isnt a 73 just a 65 antenna with a 70 [strike eagle] transmitter receiver and electronics etc. ?

[Pocket Sized]

I highly doubt we'll be getting upgrades that have only recently been put into service on the F-15.

 

Especially when you consider that our Eagle should have CCIP ground attack capabilities, but doesn't because it's not utilized by the USAF in real life. What I wouldn't give for a simple A/G gun pipper...

[microvax]

I wouldn't say 'just' :)

 

True ;D Radar parts aren't exactly uPnP. :D

 

Just was trying to get a grasp of if our bug is going to be limited by transmission power and antenna parameters or if we are more limited by processing power and thus return interpretation.

 

With afaik the interpreting parts comming from the strike eagle I would imagine we are limited by antenna and available transmission power.

[SkateZilla]

AN/APG-73 = AN/APG-65 w/ Upgraded Components w/ Parts Commonality and Programming Languages w/ F-15C/D's AN/APG-70

[The Black Swan]

 

You want towed decoys? Go bark at Skate to make that Rhino flyable! Pretty sure they have ALE-50s...Don't think the Legacies do, though. :D

 

Oops I got those mixed up with TALDs that I saw on the chart of stores for the legacy. :doh:

[SkateZilla]

 

You want towed decoys? Go bark at Skate to make that Rhino flyable! Pretty sure they have ALE-50s...Don't think the Legacies do, though. :D

 

 

Does DCS Support Towed DECOYS?

 

As for Rhino, when AI Pack is done, it will have countermeasures to prevent "Make Flyable" modifications from working.

 

Sorry.

[Sweep]

Does DCS Support Towed DECOYS?

 

As for Rhino, when AI Pack is done, it will have countermeasures to prevent "Make Flyable" modifications from working.

 

Sorry.

 

That's all good, dude. Protecting your work isn't a bad thing at all. :thumbup:

 

And as for decoys...VEAO might find out with the Typhoon? That thing has towed decoys IRL, don't it? No idea if the one we're getting had them or if they can even put them in (due to game or other reasons).

 

Oops I got those mixed up with TALDs that I saw on the chart of stores for the legacy. :doh:

 

Yeah I really want TALDs or ITALDs or MALDs.

[microvax]

AN/APG-73 = AN/APG-65 w/ Upgraded Components w/ Parts Commonality and Programming Languages w/ F-15C/D's AN/APG-70

 

Hmm, well the commonality to use jovial is not exactly indicating much in terms of computational power for return interpretation, the inline assembler makes it possible to squeeze quite a bit out of given hardware, but as long as we do not know what kind of hardware it is, its pretty much not indicating all that much.

Do we know how the computers used in the APG70 compare to the one used in the APG73 in terms of complex computations a second ?

 

Or some kind of performance metric, at least what is simulated in DCS if we do not have or will get hard data, which is probable I guess.

 

#gib_use_your_own_jovial_coded_radar_firmware_feature

[Kev2go]

In the merge the Eagle is dead, and with the whole no 4th generation Russian thing, its been discussed hundreds of times. ED tried a Flanker and they couldnt do it, maybe an export early Fulcrum eventually, which will still be far inferior.

I brought this up because if the Hornet has JHMCS than so should the Eagle. Flankers and Fulcrums will still be great in the air to air world. So sorry I find no irony

 

Fromwhat i heard its the Su27SM and Mig29SMT they tried to do but had to cancel ( not base model versions that we have in FC3) however those might as well be different beasts from the current vanilla cold war era FC3 Su27 and Mig29 versions , since they have actual have glass pits, newer radars, PGM's etc. a drastic modernization from the 2000s.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Kev2go

[frixon28]

I highly doubt we'll be getting upgrades that have only recently been put into service on the F-15..

 

Well its coming in the next year with the F/18C Lot 20 that can fire off JSOW's so were all good in that aspect fortunately :D

 

I am creating a poll on this subject right now

[SDsc0rch]

*cough*

 

 

*cough*

[frixon28]

*cough*

 

 

*cough*

 

No thats only in the Chit Chat and Military Aviation Sections... I kid I kid :D

[SkateZilla]

Well its coming in the next year with the F/18C Lot 20 that can fire off JSOW's so were all good in that aspect fortunately :D

 

I am creating a poll on this subject right now

 

Umm.. Lot 20 and OFP 13C is almost 20 years old (like 16ish)

[frixon28]

Umm.. Lot 20 and OFP 13C is almost 20 years old (like 16ish)

 

Yah I know that it is. I was talking about it coming into DCS within the next year.