Mission variety woes ;~;

[Serp Supreme]

So, as the release of the Fishbed draws near, one issue remains prevalent in my head:

 

There will probably be an unfortunate lack of variety in missions.

 

Don't take me wrong, I've got full faith that the community will chug out a plethora of missions. But the thing is, I don't know if there's going to be much variety in them. Most of the hype seems to revolve around low level GCI and A-10 hunting at the moment. Other than that, there's not much availability. The variety in air to air missions doesn't go very far, as far as I can think, especially in an outdated fighter like this. (I'm really having difficulty trying to convey my point with this, sorry if it's confusing)

 

Then there's ground pounding. I know she's no A-10, and that's really going to show. 4 hard points for weapons means that the Fishbed's options in AG are severely limited. Part of why the A-10 stayed popular and why there's such an abundance of missions for the Hog is because of the sheer number of weapons it can carry, how long it can stay in the air, and the variety of it's weapons. The Fishbed is nearly the complete opposite in my opinion.

 

So, I'm wondering if anythings going to be done about this (if anything even can be done) or maybe if I might just straight up be wrong about this.

[Home Fries]

Somewhat agree about Air to Air missions, but mission designers can offset the quality imbalance with quantity. This was an Eastern Block strategy anyway, so it might be fun to test.

 

Regarding ground pounding, don't confuse CAS with Strike. The MiG-21 may not have 10 hardpoints, but it's mud moving job won't be to loiter over the target. Rather, you could have MiG-21s loaded for strike, escorted by other 21's, and getting to the target to drop your bombs is the mission (as opposed to CAS, where staying over the target is where the action is). You don't need a single JDAM to take out a building when you have 4 fighter-bombers loaded with dumb bombs to put enough on target to give you good odds of a kill.

[Art-J]

Tigersden, I think You're right. After all we're talking about vintage point defence fighter, with some limited ground attack capabilities. But as we have lots of experience with modules not fitting the Georgia map reality very well, people will find something useful to do with it anyway. As far as I understand there's going to be plenty of interesting weapon variants available for this bird, so You can, errrr..... for example, attack the target, get back to base (waaaay faster than in A-10), rearm with some new fancy payload, refuel and get back to target zone again :D.

[Serp Supreme]

Tigersden, I think You're right. After all we're talking about vintage point defence fighter, with some limited ground attack capabilities. But as we have lots of experience with modules not fitting the Georgia map reality very well, people will find something useful to do with it anyway. As far as I understand there's going to be plenty of interesting weapon variants available for this bird, so You can, errrr..... for example, attack the target, get back to base (waaaay faster than in A-10), rearm with some new fancy payload, refuel and get back to target zone again :D.

 

Right, like I said I don't have the slightest doubt that the community will put out 100s of missions for this bird, easy. And while there may be a variety, their effectiveness is limited. We don't really have any serious anti-tank gear, so the MiG won't have much of a big role in some sort of heavy conventional conflict. Even if it's got a lot of different unguided weapons, if I remember correctly it's going to be terribly innacurate to use them on targets.

 

I feel like the Hawk module is going to be running into this problem as well, maybe on an even larger scale.

[lmp]

Well, first of all, unlike the purely air to ground A-10 and air to air F-15 - both very popular aircraft - the MiG-21 can do a little bit of both. That's already added variety. And I don't see why it couldn't do escorts, CAPs, CAS, interdictions... The real thing did all that, you just need to choose the goals and threats appropriately. F-5s may be boring if you fight them in a Flanker. ZSU trucks might feel like they're unworthy of a Maverick from your A-10. Both however will make challenging and interesting opponents for the MiG-21.

 

Also stuff that were non issues in more advanced aircraft suddenly matter and force you to think and learn new stuff. Consider navigation in the Ka-50 versus the Mi-8. In the Shark the PVI-800 and ABRIS provide you with tons of information. You just follow the line on the LCD. Or press "R" and the chopper will do even that for you. Pretty boring. In the Mi-8 however that won't do. You need to learn the flight plan, all the landmarks, headings, NDBs etc. And then you have to pay attention throughout the flight. Navigation becomes a big part of the game, not just something you do without a thought.

 

Heck, even the GCI interceptions can be interesting and varied. Picking out a low flying F-111 from ground clutter will be very different from executing a perfect climb to 15km to catch a B-52 before it launches its cruise missiles. Not having a perfect idea what's happening in a 50+km/120deg cone in front of you nor 4000km worth of fuel can actually make the whole experience more and not less interesting.

[Exorcet]

The variety in air to air missions doesn't go very far

Not at all, it's at least as deep as air to ground if not more so. There are some problems hurting air to air in the sim (one track mind rushdown AI/one dimensional wingmen and small map) but you still have CAP, Escort, Intercept, and Sweep to choose from in combination with tactics like decoy, hit and run, outnumber, stealth. You can also vary all that over eras and have different weapons and adversaries to encounter where the MiG goes from an apex predator to minor threat.

 

Then there's ground pounding. I know she's no A-10, and that's really going to show. 4 hard points for weapons means that the Fishbed's options in AG are severely limited. Part of why the A-10 stayed popular and why there's such an abundance of missions for the Hog is because of the sheer number of weapons it can carry, how long it can stay in the air, and the variety of it's weapons. The Fishbed is nearly the complete opposite in my opinion.

I think I'd rather ground attack in the MiG. I can find myself pretty bored in the A-10 because it can be a bit of a sitting duck and in single player you're basically a one pilot airforce. The MiG is quick enough to be put against comparatively higher threats so it's not all about just bringing 50 bombs and looping over targets over and over. If you really want to have more chances to strike you can always use the jump to aircraft option.

 

I've also been thinking of a campaign in Nevada with no combat at all, inspired by this:

 

[WinterH]

Well, I believe MiG-21 is the first aircraft in DCS with some semblance of a multirole fast mover. I believe, on the contrary of your fears, it will have most diverse option of missions so far. It can fly many air to air scenarios, single or multiplayer, some are more plausible for MiG, some are much more difficult, but options are there and will pretty much multiply in coming months with release of many new modules, which will be different levels of challenge each.

 

As for ground attack, again, we have many options, we'll just need to adapt to much less developed sensors & sights, and research / improvise specific tactics and adhere to them. Heck, although difficult to utilize, we'll even have an air to ground guided missile... kind of... :)

 

We'll even have option of load up some A-G ordnance, expend them, and provide cover for others with remaining A-A ordance, or use them against opposing strike aircraft / choppers.

 

Yeah, MiG has relatively few hardpoints. But being a fast short ranged aircraft, and our map not being particularly huge, I see we'll have to act the way MiG would : go in fast, expend your loadout, go back fast, re-arm & refuel as needed for another sortie ;)

 

My feeling is quite contrary to OP's. I think MiG may bring some much needed variety and options for missions in DCS. So far, it was either "pick MiG-29, Su-27 or F-15 and shoot down opposing aircraft" or "pick A-10C or Su-25 and hunt some tanks".

[Sceptre]

I thought the MiG-21 was a perfect addition to the Georgia map when they announced it, and still do. Missions can get around the older technology by using more MiG-21s versus fewer enemy planes (like F-4E). The ground attack should also be fun, and similar to doing it in the MiG-29 or Su-27.

[Serp Supreme]

Well, I believe MiG-21 is the first aircraft in DCS with some semblance of a multirole fast mover. I believe, on the contrary of your fears, it will have most diverse option of missions so far. It can fly many air to air scenarios, single or multiplayer, some are more plausible for MiG, some are much more difficult, but options are there and will pretty much multiply in coming months with release of many new modules, which will be different levels of challenge each.

 

As for ground attack, again, we have many options, we'll just need to adapt to much less developed sensors & sights, and research / improvise specific tactics and adhere to them. Heck, although difficult to utilize, we'll even have an air to ground guided missile... kind of... :)

 

We'll even have option of load up some A-G ordnance, expend them, and provide cover for others with remaining A-A ordance, or use them against opposing strike aircraft / choppers.

 

Yeah, MiG has relatively few hardpoints. But being a fast short ranged aircraft, and our map not being particularly huge, I see we'll have to act the way MiG would : go in fast, expend your loadout, go back fast, re-arm & refuel as needed for another sortie ;)

 

My feeling is quite contrary to OP's. I think MiG may bring some much needed variety and options for missions in DCS. So far, it was either "pick MiG-29, Su-27 or F-15 and shoot down opposing aircraft" or "pick A-10C or Su-25 and hunt some tanks".

 

This, I like this. You probably just convinced me that I'm wrong. Thanks brah :pilotfly:

[Vampyre]

Somewhat agree about Air to Air missions, but mission designers can offset the quality imbalance with quantity. This was an Eastern Block strategy anyway, so it might be fun to test.

 

Regarding ground pounding, don't confuse CAS with Strike. The MiG-21 may not have 10 hardpoints, but it's mud moving job won't be to loiter over the target. Rather, you could have MiG-21s loaded for strike, escorted by other 21's, and getting to the target to drop your bombs is the mission (as opposed to CAS, where staying over the target is where the action is). You don't need a single JDAM to take out a building when you have 4 fighter-bombers loaded with dumb bombs to put enough on target to give you good odds of a kill.

 

+1 :thumbup:

 

All of the aircraft most often flown for ground attack in DCS World are first and foremost CAS platforms. The Su-27, Su-33 and Mig-29 can be used as strike aircraft rather effectively. Can anyone say DCS: F-111F

[Exorcet]

So far, it was either "pick MiG-29, Su-27 or F-15 and shoot down opposing aircraft" or "pick A-10C or Su-25 and hunt some tanks".

Actually all the Russian fighters are pretty much multirole. At least as much as the Fishbed. But no one ever seems to care.

[LFCChameleon_Silk]

MiG-21 will fit in perfect with my AI F-4E and MiG-23MLD CAP (60's style low tech radar and IR missiles) in operation perched eagle

Edited July 5, 2014 by =LFC=Chameleon_Silk

[Cobra847]

I think we've already got a pretty good variety of missions going in the Campaign. Escort, CAP, Intercept, Ground Attack, Ship Attack, Recon, EW, etc.

With the talented mission creator userbase we have here I foresee some very interesting scenarios being created.

 

Don't forget that you really do have a very varied set of weaponry available to you as a MiG-21 driver.

Utilization of the KH-66 Grom beamrider is certainly significantly different than regular 500kg bombs.

[Stratos]

We can also simulate post soviet era republics fighting each other. Su-25, L-39 and Mig-21's will merge well together.

[JG-1_Vogel]

Looking forward to when the 159th can deploy the MiG alongside our Su-25A's. Will be awesome and a much needed change from the wide ranging capabilities of the A-10, Su-25T, Su-33 etc. Time to get up close and personal with the enemy in some good old fashioned dogfights!

 

I have to agree with what some have said about the A-10C. It's a pretty amazing aircraft and great to work with all the systems - but feels quite bland compared to a lot of the other aircraft. It's got so much standoff potential there is usually absolutely no need to get down low and use the main gun. Leaves it feeling a little stale next to the Su-25's that I've flown since the earliest days of LOMAC/FC.

 

All we need now is an F-4 or something else from the era to have some appropriate opposition in the air :)