Mouse control mod?

[Archer7]

It is my understanding that it is impossible to use your mouse as joystick in DCS.

Can’t anyone create a mod that allows this?!

I strongly insist that you shouldn’t have to buy equipment worth hundreds of dollars to enjoy a game, or simulator. I’ve played many, many other games where you fly aircraft with the mouse and never had any issues with it.

 

Currently players must play with very challenging keyboard controls or go buy a joystick despite there being a great alternative. Because of what… blatant elitism or an evil scheme to sell joysticks?

 

If DCS allowed mouse controls then it would instantly become that much more attractive to anyone who is new to flight sims and doesn’t already have a joystick they are happy with.

If you don’t want one, if you can’t afford one, while you’re saving for one, if yours breaks, if your desktop is small… and why the hell not? Implementation should be easy.

 

What do you say?

[HiJack]

If you like to go clicky clicky you select game mode :D

[cichlidfan]

I guess it depend on which aircraft you are flying and whether it has an SFM or AFM/EFM/PFM. If it's helo, I really think it would be impossible to fly successfully. I think that would also be true for the Mustang. The jets might be manageable.

 

In any case, I am not sure that anyone outside of ED could make such a mod, unless they create external code to make a mouse send output like a joystick.

[outlawal2]

It is my understanding that it is impossible to use your mouse as joystick in DCS.

Can’t anyone create a mod that allows this?!

I strongly insist that you shouldn’t have to buy equipment worth hundreds of dollars to enjoy a game, or simulator. I’ve played many, many other games where you fly aircraft with the mouse and never had any issues with it.

 

Currently players must play with very challenging keyboard controls or go buy a joystick despite there being a great alternative. Because of what… blatant elitism or an evil scheme to sell joysticks?

 

If DCS allowed mouse controls then it would instantly become that much more attractive to anyone who is new to flight sims and doesn’t already have a joystick they are happy with.

If you don’t want one, if you can’t afford one, while you’re saving for one, if yours breaks, if your desktop is small… and why the hell not? Implementation should be easy.

 

What do you say?

 

I say DCS is a SIMULATION, not a game... If you want to play games with your mouse, please do so... (There are plenty of flight games available that use the mouse as the main controller. Please pick one of those.)

 

ED should not spend valuable time programming mouse functionality for a SIMULATION that 99.9% of customers will never use...

 

DCS caters to a very niche audience of flight simulation aficianados, not gamers...

 

This is not "elitist" attitude it is reality and like so many things in life one must select the correct tool for a particular job... Looking for mouse control in DCS is NOT the correct tool for the job..

 

Sorry, but I completely disagree with your post and would fight this sentiment to the end...

[jay43]

There is already such a device that turns mouse input into joystick input but it will cost you money so you may as well buy the joystick.

[Archer7]

I say DCS is a SIMULATION, not a game... If you want to play games with your mouse, please do so... (There are plenty of flight games available that use the mouse as the main controller. Please pick one of those.)

 

ED should not spend valuable time programming mouse functionality for a SIMULATION that 99.9% of customers will never use...

 

DCS caters to a very niche audience of flight simulation aficianados, not gamers...

 

This is not "elitist" attitude it is reality and like so many things in life one must select the correct tool for a particular job... Looking for mouse control in DCS is NOT the correct tool for the job..

 

Sorry, but I completely disagree with your post and would fight this sentiment to the end...

 

Never use? How do you:

1) Know that 99.9% of DCS players currently use joysticks?

2) Know that statistic wouldn’t change if they had an accurate, free analogue alternative?

I bet you don’t.

 

DCS is a video game. Computer vehicle simulations were basically born in the early 90s as a central computer video game genre and they were sold to and bought by video gamers. During the 90s shooters and strategy games broke through and dominated the computer video gaming market and then computer gaming became more similar to and eventually completely dominated the console gaming market.

 

As such simulators have deep connections with video games and especially DCS which is sold and marketed as a video game and analysed by video game critics. It is also not obscure among the minority of video gamers interested in flight simulators which I can tell you is a lot more users than they who are willing to pay £400 for a quality joystick, pedals and head-tracking.

 

So any attempts to claim that any easily available ($20) computer “simulator” (especially one as visually appealing as DCS) is not being discovered by thousands of casual players by any means are useless.

 

Sure, equipment beats no equipment and I’m sure old pilots are having fun building entire cockpits but here we have an easy way to instantly make DCS more playable any day of the week you can’t be bothered to dig out your joystick.

 

I will add that official implementation of mouse control would take about one guy one hour and a dedicated modder should be able to un-darken that “AXIS ASSIGN” button in a lot less time than it takes to create a brand new aircraft module…

 

Mouse control in video games is not a difficult thing to achieve. It can been done.

 

Indeed denying someone else a completely acceptable means of analogue aircraft control is elitist, nothing else.

 

There is already such a device that turns mouse input into joystick input but it will cost you money so you may as well buy the joystick.

 

Can Xpadder do this?

[hazzer]

What's the point in having such detailed flight models if people are only going to use a mouse and keyboard. If people want to play a flight 'sim' with mouse and keyboard they will something like war thunder. You can buy a joystick fairly cheap anyway.

[rubblebeam]

Maybe the developers don't want to cheapen their product. They are selling their product as a simulation, the s in dcs. Why produce high quality flight models and try to simulate the real aircraft just to have them flown by a mouse? Doesn't make sense. I really don't think market saturation is in EDs roadmap. They strike me as very passionate about what they're trying to achieve and mouse control won't be part of that. Like the other guy said, if you've played other games using your mouse to fly airplanes play those.

[Archer7]

What's the point in having such detailed flight models if people are only going to use a mouse and keyboard. If people want to play a flight 'sim' with mouse and keyboard they will something like war thunder. You can buy a joystick fairly cheap anyway.

Maybe the developers don't want to cheapen their product. They are selling their product as a simulation, the s in dcs. Why produce high quality flight models and try to simulate the real aircraft just to have them flown by a mouse? Doesn't make sense. I really don't think market saturation is in EDs roadmap. They strike me as very passionate about what they're trying to achieve and mouse control won't be part of that. Like the other guy said, if you've played other games using your mouse to fly airplanes play those.

 

Why not? Exactly how would a mouse make the flight model any worse?

 

Maybe you should use arguments instead of excuses.

 

And if you’re going with some sort of elitist idiot argument such as that you should only be allowed to play DCS with authentic controls then I suggest that they cut out keyboard controls from the game immediately and block use of any joysticks other than the £300 Warthog HOTAS!

 

Besides how is flying with a KEYBOARD more authentic than flying with a mouse?

 

Because that’s where a lot of users will are in any of the situations I’ve mentioned.

 

Besides I don't believe the DCS devs can "cheapen" their product much more considering it's only $20 and slightly less during sales too I believe.

 

In my opinion a cheap £50 joystick just doesn't cut it and then there’s a big, empty void and then you’re up to £300.

The only HOTAS available in Sweden are the £300 Thrustmaster Warthog, the X52s and the cheap Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X.

Unfortunately I don’t enjoy the design of the X52s which means the only one I’m interested in is the Warthog and at £300 it’s a commitment and to exclude anyone who isn’t up to that sort of commitment is elitist.

 

My only economically viable option seems to be to wait for the Thrustmaster Warthog to pop up at around £200 (apparently they did sell new at £200 in Sweden a few summers ago, may happen again)…

Until that happens I’ll probably be using a mouse… which I’m not allowed to fly with.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Archer7

[rubblebeam]

Why not? Exactly how would a mouse make the flight model any worse?

 

And if you’re going with some sort of elitist idiot argument such as that you should only be allowed to play DCS with authentic controls then I suggest that they cut out keyboard controls from the game immediately and block use of any joysticks other than the £300 Warthog HOTAS!

 

Besides how is flying with a KEYBOARD more authentic than flying with a mouse?

 

Because that’s where a lot of users will are in any of the situations I’ve mentioned.

 

Besides I don't believe the DCS devs can "cheapen" their product much more considering it's only $20 and slightly less during sales too I believe.

 

Argue all you like, it won't happen. DCS is free btw. And what I mean by cheapen is to lower it to the same level as warthunder. I wasn't talking about price. If you can't understand where folk are coming from with their posts, you're in the wrong forum and playing the wrong sim. I'm done here.

[Slazi]

Use keys or get enough people to support this mouse idea. I doubt anyone cares.

[Archer7]

Argue all you like, it won't happen. DCS is free btw. And what I mean by cheapen is to lower it to the same level as warthunder. I wasn't talking about price. If you can't understand where folk are coming from with their posts, you're in the wrong forum and playing the wrong sim. I'm done here.

 

Well, d'oh. I meant DCS Black Shark/Warthog which are the modules I mainly use and basically the DCS flagships both cost $20...

 

I have no idea what Warthunder is but I doubt adding mouse support will turn DCS into it unless Warthunder is DCS with mouse support.

 

Use keys or get enough people to support this mouse idea. I doubt anyone cares.

 

I care, shitbrains.

[Home Fries]

Here's the big problem: you need to control the aircraft, and you need to look around. Using just the default forward view will not work simply because you need to look around to see what is going on (and pressing buttons in the ASM line like the Ka-50 and A-10C). The mouse is already used for looking and button clicking; this won't change.

 

You really need another controller for stick and rudder. This is the keyboard at minimum, but with the flight models in DCS the sim is really geared toward a joystick type controller. You don't need a TM Warthog to enjoy DCS (a $20 logitech stick will do to get you started), but you need something to enjoy it.

[cichlidfan]

The mouse is already used for looking and button clicking; this won't change.

 

I guess if you used a keyboard for switches, and perhaps throttle, along with TIR, then you could fly with a mouse I suppose. Even under those circumstances, I still feel that AFM/PFM aircraft control, with a mouse, would be difficult at best.

[Oesau]

I don't see why people are so hostile about this question - sure, I wouldn't fly with the mouse (though did back in the 90's) and yes, I would prefer that the devs spent the time on other things.

 

But I just sometimes don't get this hostile approach some people have.... it's a simple question - give a simple answer - no, there isn't one (mod) and DCS doesn't currently support it.

[Vedexent]

Frankly, we don't control planes with keyboards and mice; we don't control cars with keyboards and mice - there are reasons for that.

 

How do we know that 99.9% of people playing DCS use joysticks? Because you can't use anything else.

 

Not everything needs to be made 100% accessible; you can't democratize everything. The developers of DCS made their design decisions. They are not obligated to accommodate you - or me, or anyone else.

 

If we don't like that, we are perfectly free to go make our own flight simulator.

 

You personally want to use a mouse mod with DCS? Fine. Make one.

 

Don't know how? Learn. It took me about 5 minutes with Google to find some example source code in Python/Tkinter which is "mouse aware" and could probably be the basis for a mouse-position-to-keyboard-event translator.

 

Want someone to develop it for you? Well, then acting like you're the only one who "gets it", accusing everyone else of elitism, and calling people that don't agree with you "shitbrains", probably wasn't a bright move then, was it?

[Vedexent]

But I just sometimes don't get this hostile approach some people have.... it's a simple question - give a simple answer - no, there isn't one (mod) and DCS doesn't currently support it.

 

If the OP had asked it as a simple question, I'm sure a simple answer would have been given.

[outlawal2]

Why not? Exactly how would a mouse make the flight model any worse?

 

Maybe you should use arguments instead of excuses.

 

And if you’re going with some sort of elitist idiot argument such as that you should only be allowed to play DCS with authentic controls then I suggest that they cut out keyboard controls from the game immediately and block use of any joysticks other than the £300 Warthog HOTAS!

 

Besides how is flying with a KEYBOARD more authentic than flying with a mouse?

 

Because that’s where a lot of users will are in any of the situations I’ve mentioned.

 

Besides I don't believe the DCS devs can "cheapen" their product much more considering it's only $20 and slightly less during sales too I believe.

 

In my opinion a cheap £50 joystick just doesn't cut it and then there’s a big, empty void and then you’re up to £300.

The only HOTAS available in Sweden are the £300 Thrustmaster Warthog, the X52s and the cheap Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X.

Unfortunately I don’t enjoy the design of the X52s which means the only one I’m interested in is the Warthog and at £300 it’s a commitment and to exclude anyone who isn’t up to that sort of commitment is elitist.

 

My only economically viable option seems to be to wait for the Thrustmaster Warthog to pop up at around £200 (apparently they did sell new at £200 in Sweden a few summers ago, may happen again)…

Until that happens I’ll probably be using a mouse… which I’m not allowed to fly with.

 

You CLEARLY had your mind made up long before you posted your "question" so no amount of reasonable explanation is going to change your mind...

 

"In my opinion a cheap £50 joystick just doesn't cut it and then there’s a big, empty void and then you’re up to £300."

But a mouse controlling a helicopter DOES cut it? Give me a break...

 

I am not going to continue to waste my time with this as it is not a discussion at all..

 

You sir have a great day!

Edited August 21, 2014 by outlawal2

[outlawal2]

I don't see why people are so hostile about this question - sure, I wouldn't fly with the mouse (though did back in the 90's) and yes, I would prefer that the devs spent the time on other things.

 

But I just sometimes don't get this hostile approach some people have.... it's a simple question - give a simple answer - no, there isn't one (mod) and DCS doesn't currently support it.

 

Not sure what you mean by hostile, but you really should actually READ the OP's question before posting. He didn't ask IF there was mouse control, he asked WHY there wasn't... (Your "simple" answer therefore, was not relevant.) If he truly wants to know WHY it isn't provided, the answer will take a little more fleshing out... And that is what was provided

[cichlidfan]

I would be curious to see the OP compile a list of the flight sims/games that provide mouse support for flight control. Perhaps I am just unaware of that option in many of them but, aside from FSX/P3d (and the new Ilya Muromets), I did not think many did so.

 

You might be able to fly with a mouse but you surely aren't going to fly, and fight, the A-10, or Kamov, very well with a mouse.

 

Well, d'oh. I meant DCS Black Shark/Warthog which are the modules I mainly use...

 

EDIT: I have just become aware that there appear to be mouse flight controls available in the Mig-21. It may be interesting to see how that has been implemented.

Edited August 21, 2014 by cichlidfan

[T. Jacob]

It is my understanding that it is impossible to use your mouse as joystick in DCS.

 

Hi Archer7, I handle everything with keyboard and mouse, until you can buy a good Joy, so I modified some files to add controls that are not default. For example, I can control the power of the engines with the mouse wheel, right button to change weapons and shoot with primary button, and the mouse, I control the view. In my case I control the plane, with the keyboard, but if you can configure the mouse file to do directly with the mouse, and vision, need a modifier + mouse.

 

I had some problems on some aircraft, like the A-10C and TF-51D, in that case I control the power with the mouse buttons and a reformer. It's not easy, but I think you can do what you need. Let me do some tests and then you notice.

 

PS: I use Google Traslator

[T. Jacob]

Solution...

 

Hello again Archer7. I've done what you need, but I need you to know as the mod is done, because you must do this for each plane. This modification not guaranteed to work on all aircraft, but you can try.

 

I've done the modification to the Su-25T, which as we all know, is free.

 

Go to:

 

DCS World \ Mods \ aircraft \ Su-25T \ Input \ su-25T \ mouse

 

Open the file default.lua (uses SciTE.exe program (http://download.cnet.com/SciTE/3000-2247_4-202843.html))

 

You'll have something like this:

 

return {

 

keyCommands = {

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_BTN2'}}, down = iCommand_ExplorationStart, name = 'Enable visual recon mode', category = 'View Cockpit'},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_BTN3'}}, down = iCommandViewTransposeModeOn, up = iCommandViewTransposeModeOff, name = 'Camera transpose mode (press and hold)', category = 'View Cockpit'},

},

 

axisCommands = {

-- mouse axes

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_X'}}, action = iCommandPlaneViewHorizontal, name = 'Camera Horizontal View (mouse)'},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_Y'}}, action = iCommandPlaneViewVertical, name = 'Camera Vertical View (mouse)'},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_Z'}}, action = iCommandPlaneZoomView, name = 'Camera Zoom View (mouse)'},

 

{action = iCommandPlaneSelecterHorizontal , name = 'I-251 Slew Horizontal (mouse)'},

{action = iCommandPlaneSelecterVertical , name = 'I-251 Slew Vertical (mouse)'},

},

}

 

Blue lines, control the head, of the pilot

Ok. must add these lines.

 

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_X", filter ={saturationX = 0.1, saturationY = 0.1, deadzone = 0.0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {-0.9}}}}, action = iCommandPlaneRollDelta, name = 'Roll'},

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_Y", filter ={saturationX = 0.1, saturationY = 0.1, deadzone = 0.0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {-0.9}}}}, action = iCommandPlanePitchDelta, name = 'Pitch'},

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_Z", filter ={saturationX = 1.0, saturationY = 1.0, deadzone = 0.0, invert = false, slider = true, curvature = {0}}}}, action = iCommandPlaneThrustCommonDelta, name = 'Thrust'},

 

And add reformers to control the view, and disable the last lines. Finally you should have something like this: (The changes are in red)

 

return {

 

keyCommands = {

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_BTN2'}}, down = iCommand_ExplorationStart, name = 'Enable visual recon mode', category = 'View Cockpit'},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_BTN3'}}, down = iCommandViewTransposeModeOn, up = iCommandViewTransposeModeOff, name = 'Camera transpose mode (press and hold)', category = 'View Cockpit'},

},

 

axisCommands = {

-- mouse axes

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_X", filter ={saturationX = 0.1, saturationY = 0.1, deadzone = 0.0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {-0.9}}}}, action = iCommandPlaneRollDelta, name = 'Roll'},

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_Y", filter ={saturationX = 0.1, saturationY = 0.1, deadzone = 0.0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {-0.9}}}}, action = iCommandPlanePitchDelta, name = 'Pitch'},

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_Z", filter ={saturationX = 1.0, saturationY = 1.0, deadzone = 0.0, invert = false, slider = true, curvature = {0}}}}, action = iCommandPlaneThrustCommonDelta, name = 'Thrust'},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_X', reformers ={"LShift"}}}, action = iCommandPlaneViewHorizontal, name = 'Camera Horizontal View (mouse)'},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_Y', reformers ={"LShift"}}}, action = iCommandPlaneViewVertical, name = 'Camera Vertical View (mouse)'},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_Z', reformers ={"LShift"}}}, action = iCommandPlaneZoomView, name = 'Camera Zoom View (mouse)'},

 

--{action = iCommandPlaneSelecterHorizontal , name = 'I-251 Slew Horizontal (mouse)'},

--{action = iCommandPlaneSelecterVertical , name = 'I-251 Slew Vertical (mouse)'},

},

}

 

Save the file, but remember to make a copy of the original. You can change the reformers in DCS control options.

 

Now you can control the Su-25T with the mouse and, press lshift to move the head. Use a mouse wheel for power.

 

You can also add features in the first part (above), for example, change weapons, right mouse button ... etc

 

An example would be:

 

return {

 

keyCommands = {

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_BTN3"}}, down = iCommandViewTransposeModeOn, up = iCommandViewTransposeModeOff, name = "Camera transpose mode on/off", category = "View Cockpit"},

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_BTN2", reformers = {"LShift"}}}, down = iCommand_ExplorationStart, name = "Enable exploration mode", category = "View Cockpit"},

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_BTN3", reformers = {"LShift"}}}, down = iCommandPlaneLaserRangerOnOff, name = "Laser Ranger On/Off", category = "Sensors"},

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_BTN2"}}, down = iCommandPlaneChangeWeapon, name = "Weapon Change", category = "Weapons"},

{combos = {{key = "MOUSE_BTN1"}}, down = iCommandPlaneFire, up = iCommandPlaneFireOff, name = "Weapon Fire", category = "Weapons"},

},

 

These changes are made in keyCommands (No axisCommands) Pay attention.

 

Hope this helps. Remember that not speak good English, I use Google Translator. Any questions, ask me.

 

Greetings. T. Jacob

[313_Nevo]

great post T. Jacob but I have some additional questions.

 

I was trying yesterday to make mouse wheel act like a thrust, but no luck.

 

this is the default.lua in DCS World \ Mods \ aircraft \ F86F \ Input \ F86F \ mouse

return {

 

keyCommands = {

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_BTN2'}}, down = iCommand_ExplorationStart, name = _('Enable visual recon mode'), category = _('View Cockpit')},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_BTN3'}}, down = iCommandViewTransposeModeOn, up = iCommandViewTransposeModeOff, name = _('Camera transpose mode (press and hold)'), category = _('View Cockpit')},

},

 

axisCommands = {

-- mouse axes

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_X'}}, action = iCommandPlaneViewHorizontal, name = _('Camera Horizontal View (mouse)')},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_Y'}}, action = iCommandPlaneViewVertical, name = _('Camera Vertical View (mouse)')},

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_Z'}}, action = iCommandPlaneZoomView, name = _('Camera Zoom View (mouse)')},

},

}

(hopefully I remember it correctly with the '_(' infront and ')' inbehind names and categories)

 

 

I updated the MOUSE_Z to following

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_Z'}}, action = iCommandPlaneThrustCommon, name = _('Thrust')},

 

but this have no effect. Am I missing something?

Anyway I am wondering what effect should it have because it is like default settings and even when there is Camera Zoom View it has no effect while I have it unmapped ingame.

[kolga]

Wow, this thread escalated quickly. I think you will be fine controlling FC3 planes with the mouse but if you get a plane with a clickable cockpit you will not be able to fly it unless you have a full scale home cockpit :) . I would recommend using the keyboard or geting a fairly cheap joystick. I use a CH combatstick and I really like it, but it is probably out of you price range ($100).

 

 

By the way some of you are not complying to the forum rules:

 

1.14 It’s forbidden to create threads/topics containing in their title/body:

- rude or strong language, also partially or completelly masked by other symbols like: @#$%^, etc;

[313_Nevo]

back to 'Thrust control with mouse wheel'

 

actually with this in mouse / default.lua..

{combos = {{key = 'MOUSE_Z'}}, action = iCommandPlaneThrustCommon, name = _('Thrust')},

..I realized that there is possibility to assign MOUSE_Z to Thrust in axis controls ingame now (the void field become available). Anyway with this mapping done rolling the mouse wheel make the throttle just to jump from 0 to 50% or from 100 to 50%. And then only some micro movement around the 50%. No full and smooth movement of the throttle.

 

Does anyone know what is missing in that script?