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Mission editor features request


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Hi ED,

 

Probably you guys are being bored about improving the mission editor. Alas! I guess I have to touch up on this point as well.:: :icon_excl

 

- remember in flanker 2, when we place objects on the map, we can actually see the object sitting on the map.

- In lomac we get those freakin box icons which are soo unreliable that I got to enter and exit the mission 2 + times to sense the direction that they are freakin facing in. :mad:

 

So is it possible, that you can make a straight down view of objects that are really placed. Especially when u are trying to have a road block with busy buildings, base etc....its hard to sense the size of the object from the mission editor map. Place it, check in lomac that they are ....lol....stacked on one another :horseback ..loll.....

 

Hence I would atleast ask a better way to place objects on map...to be able to know the direction they are facing in etc...especially try the bunker....its messed up...the icon is useless. direction should be obtained by trail and error.

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I'd like to see dynamic threat zones implimented where the threat and detection zone would grow and shrink bassed on what the currently selected AC's type and altitude, this way we can have the flights thread the needle.

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Guest ThomasDWeiss

I it is useless to ask IMO - I gave up asking.

 

I've got some ideas for a F-15 mission pack - I am itching to do it, but just the thought of spending countless hours on a mission editor again is enough to cool my enthusiasm.

 

I'll wait a while now before starting mission packs again - maybe when BS comes out there will be some improvements.

 

(Hopefully ED will make all pre-1.2 missions compatible , from the BSO debacle, there is a chance that they will become incompatible - then I'll certainly will not buy 1.2)

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just the thought of spending countless hours on a mission editor again is enough to cool my enthusiasm.

 

I totally understand this sentiment!! Making huge mp missions for the 504 server is an excercise in frustration. Placing over a hundred units is quite a pain. You have to add a few groups at a time, load the mission, then check to see where the unit is. They will sometimes be sitting on the side of a cliff or if you have scenes on high in the middle of a forest.

 

The ME is in desperate need of some placement logic. Currently if you try to stick a ground vehicle in water it will "snap" to the closest land. Something like this is needed for terrain that is too steep. The patches of forest need to be visible in the satellite view so you can see that you are not placing a T-80 in the woods.

 

Ever noticed how if you have a vehicle travelling off-road and the path crosses a town? The vehicle will drive around any buildings instead of stopping. This needs to be implemented for ANY obstacle on the map, such as steep terrain, rivers (by way of bridges), and forests. It would be nice to see this in the ME with the waypoints, that they automatically curve around obstacles. Once in game, the AI should look for alternate routes if a bridge is taken out.

 

When setting a ground vehicle group to off-road, you have some formation options. It would be nice though to be able to drag them into a formation of your design and they would be able to maintain that. Another cool feature would be to have a button that would randomly "scatter" a stationary group into a shape other than a straight line (each vehicle following the placement logic mentioned above).

 

I have lots of ideas for the ME, but really we are waisting our breath. ED has not made any changes to the ME since 1.0, not even bug fixes (the one where a placed group returns to a straight line when clicking another group is my personal favorite :(). They haven't mentioned any plans for changes to the ME for 1.2, but I'm still holding my breath for Tank Killers.

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I I hate this feature/bug it needs to be refined just enough so that we amphibious landings. It stinks we can't have the jar head's landing on the Crimea

.:horseback

 

The ME is in desperate need of some placement logic. Currently if you try to stick a ground vehicle in water it will "snap" to the closest land.

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Honestly...ME is a major reason in my opinion why many people are loosing interest in lockon. The longeivity is just not being expressed.

 

The potential is there. But the implementation of necessary and basic features is not.

 

Trust me ED!! there have been sooo many times just like Thomas, I have tried to release a mission or campaign with a cinematic scenario but got annoyed after spending 6+ hrs working on it ..just ending up by scrapping the file.

 

Another concept that tracks are broken with every patch is also not reasonable. I understand that its easy to point but not to solve...but I guess its SAFE to say that ED is trying to look at the pretty side of lomac and building on it. I would suggest spend time with the functionality.

 

Improve the ME, give us the same FLANKER model for ka 50 with the features. A 2d cockpit, with good FM but good realistic , user friendly mission editor with events placement....and especially a COPY PASTE functionality. Trust me ...your sales will definately improve and community will grow.

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- remember in flanker 2, when we place objects on the map, we can actually see the object sitting on the map.

- In lomac we get those freakin box icons which are soo unreliable that I got to enter and exit the mission 2 + times to sense the direction that they are freakin facing in. :mad:

 

So is it possible, that you can make a straight down view of objects that are really placed.

 

The ME issues in this discussion are mere annoyances. They all have work-arounds, however inconvenient they may be. I wish it was all like that.

 

Try developing a dynamic campaign, when the debriefing results can't be saved.

Or, viewing the mission goals before the start of a multi-player mission.

Or, choosing to fly the client-skill lead jet from flight #2 of a group.

Or, telling from the mission debriefing, whether you destroyed a runway or not.

All - impossible.

 

Explore a little further, beyond the first annoyance you find! There are bigger problems here.

 

-SK

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I understand your concern swingkid, I know the ME is MESSED UP. But I am not asking for a drastic change or a new implementation.

 

I am merely asking the return step to an already well working concept in flanker 2 compared to the broken one in lock on.

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Guest ThomasDWeiss

I share your pain Vapor - placing units in some areas requires a lot of patience!

 

The ME is not only not a priority - it isn't even at the bottom of the list of priorities. It simply does not even get noticed any more.

 

There are about a dozen people making missions, maybe less, so why bother ?

 

The changes that are needed could be implemented and it would make the life of that dozen people much easier, after all - without missions to fly what is Lock On for?

 

I made about a hundred missions by now for every aircraft, by now I know how to sidestep the ME and find how to give the pace I want to a mission, what no to attempt because it is a waste of time, where to place what. The mission editor is now just a tool to place units, it is all done in game.

 

LO is over two years old, I earnestly urge ED to revamp its ME after BS is released - and improve it in a way that allows backward compatibility.

 

One of the great challenges BS will face, is that there are no Missions or Campaigns made for it (it was simple to adapt A-10 missions to the Su-25T) and without them it will be hard to keep people flying it.

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well said buddy. That is truely coming form all the people who care about the longeivity of lomac. :)

 

ED! If chizh or anyone is reading this, trust me, I am willing to pay a seperate 15-20$ just for a new mission editor that has new features, functionality and robust mission building nature.

WHISPR | Intel I7 5930K | Nvidia GTX980 4GB GDDR5 | 16GB DDR4 | Intel 730 series 512GB SSD | Thrustmaster WARTHOG | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR4 pro |

|A-10C|BS2 |CA|P-51 MUSTANG|UH-1H HUEY|MI-8 MTV2 |FC3|F5E|M2000C|AJS-37|FW190|BF 109K|Mig21|A-10:SSC,EWC|L-39|NEVADA|

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I totally understand this sentiment!! Making huge mp missions for the 504 server is an excercise in frustration. Placing over a hundred units is quite a pain. You have to add a few groups at a time, load the mission, then check to see where the unit is. They will sometimes be sitting on the side of a cliff or if you have scenes on high in the middle of a forest.

 

 

I've created a small proggy to help with mission creation, speicifically it can copy units so making a MP misison for 504 would become a matter of copy-paste. Problem is, my code in c# doesnt write the mission file back properly probably due to utf encoding issue. Havent figured it out yet. I posted the code in the forum too but no avail :rolleyes:. SUm1 help?

 

 

anyways mebbe i look at it again soon.

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Amen brothers, amen.

 

It would be great to have a improved ME released with BS. If they work on it while working on BS they can find bugs/glitches/probs that may come up with each beta version and then correct them before getting so far ahead in one area that it would be more costly to go back and do it all over again.

 

If they wait til after, what's the point? The sim plays and money is made, then ED is off to the next project. I'm not saying they won't fix bugs that affect playability (1.12a show that they will), but what would be the motivation to fix the ME at that point?

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I understand your concern swingkid, I know the ME is MESSED UP. But I am not asking for a drastic change or a new implementation.

 

I am merely asking the return step to an already well working concept in flanker 2 compared to the broken one in lock on.

 

The debriefings could also be saved in Flanker 2, so I'm not sure what this comment adds. Who is asking for a drastic change or new implementation?

 

I agree with your suggestion, I just think we can do a better job of prioritizing it in queue, considering other Mission Editor problems that do not yet have work-arounds.

 

-SK

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Guest ThomasDWeiss

I always wondered why it was so hard to implement changes in ME - one of the criticisms more often read in forums is how canned missions feel.

 

A simple RANDOM string in star-up time would solve that, we are down to basics now, we have a beautiful sim, realistic with great variety of weapons and rudimentary tools for what matters most.

 

I hope ED won't wait much longer - because we are really down to very few people creating missions and campaigns, people are losing interest in making anything more than single missions.

 

How I wish we had a powerful mission builder entry in Lock On 1.1.2a readme file.

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we have a beautiful sim, realistic with great variety of weapons and rudimentary tools for what matters most.

Yeah. That's the pain. It shouldn't be like this.

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amen to that thomas. :( Its sad that ppl are loosing interest because graphics cannot keep the interest up without the immersion which comes from a better ME.

 

Btw..Swingkid, yeah! I do definately agree. If only chizh posts asking us for a global priority list to be fixed in the ME without too many drastic changes..I bet lomac will be back on evryone's computers.

WHISPR | Intel I7 5930K | Nvidia GTX980 4GB GDDR5 | 16GB DDR4 | Intel 730 series 512GB SSD | Thrustmaster WARTHOG | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR4 pro |

|A-10C|BS2 |CA|P-51 MUSTANG|UH-1H HUEY|MI-8 MTV2 |FC3|F5E|M2000C|AJS-37|FW190|BF 109K|Mig21|A-10:SSC,EWC|L-39|NEVADA|

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Try developing a dynamic campaign, when the debriefing results can't be saved.

Or, viewing the mission goals before the start of a multi-player mission.

Or, choosing to fly the client-skill lead jet from flight #2 of a group.

Or, telling from the mission debriefing, whether you destroyed a runway or not.

All - impossible.

 

The lack of info in the mp_log is a huge roadblock, but mission goals can be put in the brief. But they will be visible for both sides. Choosing client for 2nd flight can be done for MP too. Only because humans will fly all the planes. Not much help for a SP campaign, I know. Which brings us to the destruction of a runway. I KNOW I saw achieved mission goals popping up in chat on one server, just like kill messages . I can't remember which server it was but it seems like it was a Russian server. Maybe Dreyou? And not only were they coming up in chat, they were numbered. It was for bridge bombing and as each bridge was destroyed, it was announced. From what I can tell, what goes into the mp_log is what comes up in chat. That would be the answer to some of your problems, but for the life of me, I can't replicate mission goals coming up in chat announcements. I made a post about it here, but got no answers. Maybe it worked with a previous version of the game or maybe it works with the Russian version.

 

What's the workaround for the ground units snapping back into a line?

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Choosing client for 2nd flight can be done for MP too. Only because humans will fly all the planes.

 

Hmm, how do you do that? If I assign "Client" skill to the lead of flight #2 within a group, that aircraft isn't listed from the aircraft-selection screen when players are choosing their aircraft.

 

What's the workaround for the ground units snapping back into a line?

 

Create the group and assign all their vehicle types before moving any of them into their individual positions. Then password-lock the mission after positioning.

 

-SK

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Guest ThomasDWeiss
amen to that thomas. :( Its sad that ppl are loosing interest because graphics cannot keep the interest up without the immersion which comes from a better ME.

 

Btw..Swingkid, yeah! I do definately agree. If only chizh posts asking us for a global priority list to be fixed in the ME without too many drastic changes..I bet lomac will be back on evryone's computers.

 

As I perceive it - sadly, that although Eagle Dynamics has a forum , it has its own set of priorities and as Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady said 'They listen very nicely, and do precisely as they want'.

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Hmm, how do you do that? If I assign "Client" skill to the lead of flight #2 within a group, that aircraft isn't listed from the aircraft-selection screen when players are choosing their aircraft.

 

Sorry, I meant that human pilots can actually fly that position on their own, not that it can be set that way in the ME.

 

Has anybody tested older versions of LOMAC for which events show up in the mp_log?

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As I perceive it - sadly, that although Eagle Dynamics has a forum , it has its own set of priorities and as Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady said 'They listen very nicely, and do precisely as they want'.

 

lol! :D ouch' ! :p

 

To be honest, I guess its kind of true. ED focus on the russian forum a lot more I guess, because they have a publisher in russia and a good sim base there.

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With regards to the placing of structures and such in the editor, I would think a simple solution could be to have a little arrow, which will point in a certain direction. This arrow will be displayed together with the structure both when you preview the structure, and when you are placing the "box" on the map. We doesn't need to see the structure if we can see the arrow.

 

Just my 2 cents.

I want to get away, I wanna fly away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

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I am a sim racer and i just recently started to spend more and more time flying. I got some of my racing mates to try/buy lock on and we all love this sim. We meet every day and fly coop missions and it didnt take long before i got my nose in ME and spend almost more time there than flying so i can make more missions for my mates and me. To be honest, i tought it is powerful and wonderful, but now when i read some posts here, i start to agree. Some of this people know more than me if ED has been neglecting ME when updating LO and if it is true, i'd say it is a mistake. I think it should be updated and improved where ever there is room to do so. It is important part of the game (especially for games lifetime), even for new comers like me.

cheers

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