Trim problem on Su27

[=Thrust=]

Hi there.

 

Two update of 1.2.11 and always problem with trim never appeared before .

Are you planing to improve that ?

Thanks

 

The problem is when i enter on game game is in strong nose up, as i said never appeared before on all update, and when i put trim nose down it seems to be ok but in external view elevators stay in zero degrees.

Thank u in advance engineers :thumbup:

 

:smartass:

Edited November 15, 2014 by =THRUST=

[YoYo]

Trim the aircraft. Always.

[Ironhand]

YoYo, I think he's referring to the same thing that happened to me yesterday. No problem with starting on the ground but, with an air start, the aircraft pitched severely nose up as soon as the sim was un-paused. I didn't think too much about it at the time because I had converted runway start to an air start and figured it had something to do with that. But perhaps not. I haven't had an opportunity yet to get back into the sim with a fresh mission.

[=Thrust=]

I know we have to trim but not every time, each second ....

Not from down to the top or opposite, and surely when we dont want. trim once and then fly, "dont trim to fly" = thats the difference. :pilotfly:

Thats not funny, aircraft is not build to trim like this on real life :smartass:

 

Before this update you saw trim elevator moving around indications but now you cannot see that.

Edited November 15, 2014 by =THRUST=

[159th_Viper]

You trim for airspeed. If your airspeed changes then you're gonna have to trim. When your airspeed changes is up to you so you can be trimming all the time or you can be trimming once every couple of minutes - all depends on how you fly.

[=Thrust=]

You trim for airspeed. If your airspeed changes then you're gonna have to trim. When your airspeed changes is up to you so you can be trimming all the time or you can be trimming once every couple of minutes - all depends on how you fly.

 

Thats appear even the speed dont change....

 

Thé flight model have tout ne improved a little.

Looking forward.

I Know progrmmers are working on it. Thanks :thumbup:

[Scoll]

Hi,

Is it normal for trim lights go out after 15 clicks?

there is a trim monitor on the dashboard and if so where?

[Ironhand]

Hi,

Is it normal for trim lights go out after 15 clicks?

there is a trim monitor on the dashboard and if so where?

Hidden behind the joystick. Defect it right or left and you'll see them. Mine go out after 3 clicks in either direction to let me know that I am well out of neutral trim.

[kdubz]

The discussions above don't fix the issue. Trimming for airspeed is standard and hardly addresses this issue of the basic FC3 Flanker intercept mission starting with that amount of nose down trim required. It should be set by default since the mission starts at the same alt / airspeed every time. Also, has anyone else experienced the negative G Out of controlled flight and immediate blackout issue?

[joey45]

Also, has anyone else experienced the negative G Out of controlled flight and immediate blackout issue?

 

Only when the AoA switch is flicked...:joystick:

[OnlyforDCS]

Dont want to start a new thread so Ill just ask here. I too noticed that the Su27 needs a lot of trim (never flown her before the new FM but it behaves a lot like an old prop plane in that regard) and I dont mind that.

 

Im having trouble trimming her using just the stick and the trim button. Does anyone else trim like this? As far as I figured it out you push trim button, move the stick in the desired direction, release trim. Just like in the russian helos. However its a bit of hit and miss doing it this way.

 

Am I doing it wrong? Should I just use 'hat' trimming like in the western jets?

[esb77]

Dont want to start a new thread so Ill just ask here. I too noticed that the Su27 needs a lot of trim (never flown her before the new FM but it behaves a lot like an old prop plane in that regard) and I dont mind that.

 

Im having trouble trimming her using just the stick and the trim button. Does anyone else trim like this? As far as I figured it out you push trim button, move the stick in the desired direction, release trim. Just like in the russian helos. However its a bit of hit and miss doing it this way.

 

Am I doing it wrong? Should I just use 'hat' trimming like in the western jets?

 

I haven't checked a manual recently, but if I'm not being misled by my memory I believe that on the shared HOTAS design for the real Su-27, Su-25, and Mig--29 one of the hat switches on the stick is for trim.

 

I believe that somewhere on the ED forums there's a thread with a diagram that has most or all of the Soviet HOTAS controls labelled.

[mondo]

As far as I figured it out you push trim button, move the stick in the desired direction, release trim. Just like in the russian helos. However its a bit of hit and miss doing it this way.

 

 

I'm also curious about how this is meant to work.

[esb77]

Ok, trim controls for the SU-27,

 

Basic design is tailored for a 4 way hat switch.

 

There's also a setting for separate rudder trim, that would probably be best suited for a rocker switch. (haven't tried the rudder trim, not sure if it works).

 

There's also trim reset, which would get a button of it's own, or could be assigned to the button press on a 5 way hat switch. (again, haven't tried it not sure if it works, I know it doesn't in the Su-25, but perhaps it does in the Su-27)

 

 

If you're trying to trim in the same way the helicopters do you're going to get weird results, they have very different trim system controls than the fixed wing aircraft do.

[mondo]

I meant the new trim button, trim to stick or something like that. An option that previously wasn't available on the old su27.

[OnlyforDCS]

I meant the new trim button, trim to stick or something like that. An option that previously wasn't available on the old su27.

 

Thats exactly what Im talking about. I assume its specific to the Su27 or the russian birds in general, as I havent seen anything like it in the western planes.

 

I have been using it like 'helicopter' trim, and it works although its not the same and as far as I can tell it lowers the 'sensitivity' of your joystick axes when depressed.

 

I would really like to hear from someone that's been using this system effectively beacuse I for one feel it has a lot of potential to be much more useful and intuitive than regular trim.

[mondo]

Yeah, I thought it might be that or alternatively similar to the system on the A10's gun trigger first stage which stabilises the aircraft prior to the second stage.

[Boberro]

Why is there no auto trim? In real plane I mean.

[OnlyforDCS]

I will test this out further when I get home today. I also suspect it could be hardware dependant which is why Ive been having mixed results with it. By that I mean that maybe a force feedback joystick might be required.

 

I suspect that maybe this is the correct operating procedure but Im probably wrong :smartass:

 

1. Put the stick in a position where the plane is flying stable

2. push trim to stick

3. release trim to stick, stick should remain in the same position.

 

Can anyone with Force Feedback try the above method and check whether it works like that?

[Fishbreath]

Also, has anyone else experienced the negative G Out of controlled flight and immediate blackout issue?

 

Negative Gs are a departure condition for the Flanker.

 

The immediate blackout thing seems to be a real issue, though. I was testing inverted engine performance, and my pilot blacked out instantly, from full conscious to full black screen, as I was gently rolling upside down.

[mvsgas]

Why is there no auto trim? In real plane I mean.

 

How many aircraft have that ( automatic trim)? I ask because is something that has been mention before. Not here specifically, but over the years in different occasions, about different aircraft. I know it was a common misconception that the F-16 ( and other FBW aircraft) didn't need trim, I tried many occasions to tell people that it need trim but I lack the technical know how to properly explain why. It wasn't until BMS came out and people saw that the aircraft needed trim, together with guys like Mav-jp ( and others) who was able to properly explain why that some of the automatic trim comments subsided.

[OnlyforDCS]

I will test this out further when I get home today. I also suspect it could be hardware dependant which is why Ive been having mixed results with it. By that I mean that maybe a force feedback joystick might be required.

 

I suspect that maybe this is the correct operating procedure but Im probably wrong :smartass:

 

1. Put the stick in a position where the plane is flying stable

2. push trim to stick

3. release trim to stick, stick should remain in the same position.

 

Can anyone with Force Feedback try the above method and check whether it works like that?

 

Ok tested it some more and found it to be, well sort of like using the regular trim method.

 

Basically you press trim-to-stick move the stick in the desired direction and it will trim the plane one 'tick' in the desired direction.

 

The only benefit I can see that this will give you is that it will allow you to bind the trim HAT buttons to something else that you require.

[Boberro]

How many aircraft have that ( automatic trim)? I ask because is something that has been mention before. Not here specifically, but over the years in different occasions, about different aircraft. I know it was a common misconception that the F-16 ( and other FBW aircraft) didn't need trim, I tried many occasions to tell people that it need trim but I lack the technical know how to properly explain why. It wasn't until BMS came out and people saw that the aircraft needed trim, together with guys like Mav-jp ( and others) who was able to properly explain why that some of the automatic trim comments subsided.

 

Does F-16 need as much trim as Su-27? In BMS I use trim quite rarely, not to say almost never.

[mvsgas]

Does F-16 need as much trim as Su-27? In BMS I use trim quite rarely, not to say almost never.

 

Real life? I have no idea how they compare to each other. I know the RL F-16 is trimmed and every aircraft need a different trim. How much and how often is it trim, I do not know. In BMS, I don't trim the F-16 to much, but it still requires for me to keep the nose where I want it. SU-27 in DCS is the same for me. I trim it to a point, and keep the nose where I need it. In either BMS or DCS I can't trim and walk away any aircraft unless I use Auto pilot. Is it accurate? I do not know. I like how both are modeled, but I could not tell the level of accuracy.

[mondo]

Ok tested it some more and found it to be, well sort of like using the regular trim method.

 

Basically you press trim-to-stick move the stick in the desired direction and it will trim the plane one 'tick' in the desired direction.

 

The only benefit I can see that this will give you is that it will allow you to bind the trim HAT buttons to something else that you require.

 

Thanks. I think the true benefit will be in a gun fight where quick trimming will make life easier.