R-27 ET "Anomalies"

[D-Scythe]

I guess we don't.

I guess that as beta-tester you keep playing diffrent builds then I do.

 

Show me how you avoid AMRAAMs by flying straight and doing nothing but just few chaff drops.

Or better, a few AMRAAMS flying one after another.

Though any clinically conducted test or rather I should call laboratory enviroment test is does not resemble any complex situation that we meet on truly PvP servers.

 

Here's your proof. Head on, look up, the best type of shot you can make with a radar missile. You see that all 5 AMRAAMs miss with a 15 chaff bundle (not a lot considering that you evade 5 AMRAAMs). The next track is of the target on the beam, the worst shot you can make with radar missiles, again with 15 chaff or so released. You see 4 out of 5 AMRAAMs track and hit.

 

Problem with this overperformance in the beam is that if the target pulled any evasive maneuvers on the beam (target in this case is flying straight and level), all 4 of the AMRAAMs would've likely been kinematically defeated. Thus if chaff and evasive maneuvers are combined, the AMRAAM's net PK in LOMAC is zero.

 

Ten to fifteen chaff would likely allow you to dodge any radar missile without evasive maneuvering. Both the F-15 and Su-27 have over a 100 chaff rounds. You do the math on how many missiles can be dodged without going defensive.

 

This is V1.12a. The AMRAAM is porked and the R-27ET is overmodelled - get used to the facts. BVR in LOMAC is unrealistic as it is currently. Hopefully this will get fixed in LOBS.

 

You also have yet to provide proof of the AMRAAM's "horrible" combat record.

head on vs. beam.zip

[Galaad]

IRL the r-27T/ET has an IR sensor range of 8mn, the r-73 IR sensor range is 16mn.

It is a known fact that the T/ET have a better range than the r-73.

Why?

Because his guidance system is different, if it was only Ir, his absolute launch range was 8mn, but the r-27T/ET use inertial guidance with data link commands from the lanching aircraft in the firt phase of the flight, and have a kill range of 20/35 mn

In fact the T/ET in LOMAC are downgraded.

 

Pilotasso, if the r-27T/ET would be correctly implemented in LOMAC, they would be far more deadly.Bad news :)

[Shaman]

This game slowly become what I've seen in others.

Where fan boys on one said scream and yell and devs to nerf their enemys capabilities.

I can imagine the flame wars F-15C fanboys vs Russian fighter fanboys if T/ET would be actually correctly implemented in LOMAC. Together with the correct datalink on russian planes and HDD.

 

D-Scythe give me time, and will do.

I've watched your track. And don't see them as any proof of nothing. Then again it just good display how to avoid Amraam, what I do in MP flights.

Check the alt diffrence. 5km. Also the amraams have been lanuched by an AI, and not in sequential order what I always see in the game (so on RWR you don't see the following Amraam).

At the end as I said. Any clinically set up scenario won't prove anything.

It seems that F-15C pilots want their missiles to blow the enemies of the sky even if bandit applies evasive manuvers correctly plus deploying countermeassuers, because they think their missiles should hit in all those conditions (to much amraam propaganda has been read so far I guess) which is untrue.

Last track, you own 5-6 AI planes with own Amraams, without even being hit and still complain about missile effectiveness. That proves how much this community is simmilar to all other stupid mmorpg games where f.e. elves love trolls and build potions. (uu!) and complain about trolls having axes. And trolls complaing about elves having homing arrows.

[Kaya]

There is nothing strange that F-15 boys are worried and complaining about ET's effectivness and are expressing that, because they really should worry.

 

There is nothing starnge that they are completely blind to that "AMRAAM being UBER missile" issue.

 

I guess these two lines reflect the nature of the man pretty well.

 

BTW, you can see that I'm prone to act in a same fashion - I'm a MiG boy and I'm telling that - AMRAAMs are UBER and ETs on the other hand are just good.

 

You can never come up to a single and foremost truth unless it is backed up and implied by the direct usage of force.

[tflash]

I have to disagree, shamandgg. Since this software is a sim and is marketed as such it is only normal that players find the slightest missile performance differences very big issues. After all, this is where this software is all about. Ed has to be credited with the fact that they attract such a discerning crowd. This is no troll discussion and also not some whining competition.

 

Just like IL-2 forums go into lengthy details about engine performance, prop settings and fuel mixture of WWII aircraft, I would expect the forum discussions heer to go just about that: how is a missile modelled and what is its performance.

 

This is no criticism of the developers, but quite on the contrary true respect for and interest in their work.

[Pilotasso]

Here's your proof. Head on, look up, the best type of shot you can make with a radar missile. You see that all 5 AMRAAMs miss with a 15 chaff bundle (not a lot considering that you evade 5 AMRAAMs). The next track is of the target on the beam, the worst shot you can make with radar missiles, again with 15 chaff or so released. You see 4 out of 5 AMRAAMs track and hit.

 

Problem with this overperformance in the beam is that if the target pulled any evasive maneuvers on the beam (target in this case is flying straight and level), all 4 of the AMRAAMs would've likely been kinematically defeated. Thus if chaff and evasive maneuvers are combined, the AMRAAM's net PK in LOMAC is zero.

 

Ten to fifteen chaff would likely allow you to dodge any radar missile without evasive maneuvering. Both the F-15 and Su-27 have over a 100 chaff rounds. You do the math on how many missiles can be dodged without going defensive.

 

This is V1.12a. The AMRAAM is porked and the R-27ET is overmodelled - get used to the facts. BVR in LOMAC is unrealistic as it is currently. Hopefully this will get fixed in LOBS.

 

You also have yet to provide proof of the AMRAAM's "horrible" combat record.

 

 

My sincere congrats for this, couldnt have put it better myself.

 

People had confused lame tactics for unsrealistic obvious exploits of the games flaws that dont require much skill to do (just enough time to figure it out) would get them killed for sure in any credible fasion otherwise.

 

Ice: downloadin you track and analysing it: I bet it will look like as I was asleep when I got hit lol.

[Kenan]

I think they are spoiled crybabies whos ego is so high that they can't come in terms with the fact that they're now regullary blown off the skies, so are now almost demanding and threatining with ED changing the missile behaviour.

 

During my online years I was smacked down by Amraams like, hundreds of times, never bothered about how realistic it is modelled in the game and never had any thoughts about whining on the forums about it. I just kept playing the game and tried to get the best out of my plane/package.

 

Now, when I and my other online friends, found the way to legally put the crybabies ashame, we have a situations like these, armchair 'experts' teaching us we're being exploiters, loopholers etc.

 

Well, let them whine. I'm sure ED will listen to their 'advices' the same way he's been listening to them all this time regarding a "underpowered" Amraam..ROFL...

[Kaya]

It's not very good, that you quoted only the half of my post - this post should be seen as a whole, because the essence of the post lies in the last lines, not in the first ones.

[Pilotasso]

LOL I guess some people just refuse to see the facts when they are in front of their eyes. Just loved if ED borked the R-27's the way the AMRAAM D-Scythe shows and then we would see who are the fanbois or who is biased.

 

It seems to me that you want the AMRAAM to suck at any cost so you can be convinced that you marvelous anti-AMRAAM tactics such as these are fruit of your "endless talent". Comon get real.

 

There is so much time you can be in denial untill everything you say just starts not to be taken seriously .

 

Kenan, the difference between you and me is that Im not stuck to russian birds only out of personal ideologies and convictions. Your letting it dictate what you think it should be like and not what it it realy is. You never even bothered to use any western aircraft. Probably because in your evaluation they just suck no matter what.

[Kenan]

It's not very good, that you quoted only the half of my post - this post should be seen as a whole, because the essence of the post lies in the last lines, not in the first ones.

 

I apologize Kaya. It was not my intention to abuse your post. I will edit my reply right away.

[Breakshot]

The Inertial Guidance is infact present in the ETs first stage of flight (not modelled in Lockon 1.1 although was in the 1.02 days, so the ET has been already nerfed). In fact from what I gather it is a standart tactic for russian pilots to launch an ET straight after an ER shot at long range, thats how they are being trained. So I totaly agree that this post was made simply because someone was looking for a reason to use when it comes to beign shot down.

 

To be honest this whole post is going nowhere apart from an endless argument by both the F15 & Russian plane drivers. Lets face it, each plane has an edge in some respect, in the game anyway, so instead of complaining just work it out. By the way since 1.11 the f15 has got double more flares on board than before, so use them!

 

About the chaff thing, I think that it is equally or even easier to spoof an 77 or ER with that as well, so the Amraam is not underpowered. Missiles are prone to misses, and I doubt that in real life u can score 1 kill per shot with an Amraam. The standart tactic of US fighter pilots is to Ripple as many amramms as required to take down the targets. I heard that only 1 out of 3 or 4 actually hits (although dont know exact stats on that, I could be wrong) But lets just look at it, 1/3 is actually an exellent rate for a missile. Just think of some of the Sparrow or 27R stats where the hit rate is very low. I doubt that the Amraam, no matter how good the technological advancement made could increase the PK by more than say 50 odd percent. I also agree with Ice on the actual effectiveness of the ET, getting a kill with it at more than 15km is extremely improbable, and I would rather have an Amraam that could be launched in TWS (without trails by the way) instead.

 

Also in my honest opinion the Amraam is nasty when u are in WVR and about to merge. Because u just dont see the bugger being launched! (well if u are lucky, u can catch the initial ignition but even that is hard to spot)

 

Anyway here is what I think about all this. This discussion is pretty much pointless as both sides would always find reasons to complain, disprove/prove a theory that suits them better.

[Pilotasso]

To be honest this whole post is going nowhere apart from an endless argument by both the F15 & Russian plane drivers.

 

Let me repeat it:

 

I fly all fighters.

 

From the moment the games code is exploited like this it sorta becomes like an X-wing space SIM.This is the nucleous of the question.

I wish to be able to use realistic tactics and capabilities on each plane. Right now I cant, not by a long shot. Its simple as that.

 

Breakshot, I would very much like to read some more info on the R-27ET, I would apreciate that you linked me to a reliable source. Or recommended me some books. I know about the doctrine of firing SARH and IR missiles silmultanously, now, you dont specify if thats a true BVR shot or a simple rear hemisphere shot on a strategical nuclear bomber, wich was the philosofy that first made tactics such as these emerge during the cold war.

[D-Scythe]

This game slowly become what I've seen in others.

Where fan boys on one said scream and yell and devs to nerf their enemys capabilities.

I can imagine the flame wars F-15C fanboys vs Russian fighter fanboys if T/ET would be actually correctly implemented in LOMAC. Together with the correct datalink on russian planes and HDD.

 

D-Scythe give me time, and will do.

I've watched your track. And don't see them as any proof of nothing. Then again it just good display how to avoid Amraam, what I do in MP flights.

Check the alt diffrence. 5km. Also the amraams have been lanuched by an AI, and not in sequential order what I always see in the game (so on RWR you don't see the following Amraam).

At the end as I said. Any clinically set up scenario won't prove anything.

It seems that F-15C pilots want their missiles to blow the enemies of the sky even if bandit applies evasive manuvers correctly plus deploying countermeassuers, because they think their missiles should hit in all those conditions (to much amraam propaganda has been read so far I guess) which is untrue.

 

It's proof of nothing? Right. The tracks obviously show that a head on target can evade 5 AMRAAMs (and there is no difference between AI launched AMRAAMs and player launched AMRAAMs) in level flight. I, the target, did NOTHING at all. There were NO evasive maneuvers.

 

D-Scythe give me time, and will do.

I've watched your track. And don't see them as any proof of nothing. Then again it just good display how to avoid Amraam, what I do in MP flights.

Check the alt diffrence. 5km. Also the amraams have been lanuched by an AI, and not in sequential order what I always see in the game (so on RWR you don't see the following Amraam).

 

5 km alt difference? What are you smoking? This is a look up, head on situation. It is the best shot you can make with a radar missile. And there is no difference between missiles launched by AI and by the player. And there were no evasive maneuvers. If this isn't proof, I don't know what is.

 

Last track, you own 5-6 AI planes with own Amraams, without even being hit and still complain about missile effectiveness. That proves how much this community is simmilar to all other stupid mmorpg games where f.e. elves love trolls and build potions. (uu!) and complain about trolls having axes. And trolls complaing about elves having homing arrows.[/

 

First, it was 4 MiG-29s. And secondly, these tracks prove how INEFFECTIVE missiles are. That last track is further proof that if you know what you are doing, you CANNOT be hit except if you don't know where the missile is coming from. Those 4 MIG-29S should've killed me right when I stepped into the no-escape zone of their R-77s, yet evasive maneuvers plus smart use of chaff allowed me to dodge the BEST radar missile in the game.

 

Yes, the R-77 is even better than the AIM-120, and I danced around them without feeling threatened - at all. That last track was at 100% missile slider, btw.

 

Further proof that evasive maneuvering + smart chaff use = ZERO PK for radar missiles. You think that's realistic?

 

And Breakshot, the whole point is to increase the effectiveness of AMRAAM and other radar missiles in the no-escape zone. Targets in the no-escape zone should die. Furthermore, the AMRAAM's PK IRL is over 60%. In LOMAC, you'd be lucky to get half that, and that's only if you're a good pilot.

 

The Inertial Guidance is infact present in the ETs first stage of flight (not modelled in Lockon 1.1 although was in the 1.02 days, so the ET has been already nerfed). In fact from what I gather it is a standart tactic for russian pilots to launch an ET straight after an ER shot at long range, thats how they are being trained. So I totaly agree that this post was made simply because someone was looking for a reason to use when it comes to beign shot down.

 

See, this is already proof that you don't know what you're talking about. IR missiles are usually launched BEFORE the radar missile because having the radar missile launched first might confuse the IR missile because it's rocket motor is in its seeker FOV.

 

It's funny, because when ED tries to implement some realistic limitations on a Russian weapon, like the R-27ET, based on very good information (official Russian documentation) they are accused of nerfing the weapon.

 

Haha. Talk about biased.

 

I think they are spoiled crybabies whos ego is so high that they can't come in terms with the fact that they're now regullary blown off the skies, so are now almost demanding and threatining with ED changing the missile behaviour.

 

Spoiled crybabies? Nice. So lemme see the score: F-15 "fanbois" provide proof that AMRAAM is porked, proof that the Russian fanbois cannot dispute, so they resort to name-calling and generally overall bad behaviour.

 

Well, besides "Oh, I get shot down all the time by AMRAAMs, so it must not be porked." Yeah, that's great.

[51GRIZZLY]

So let me try to sum this discussion up so far:

 

 

F-15 jocks are upset ( to put it mildly ) because they more and more often get shot down by 27ETs and so far they dont have any idea how to deal with it.

And suddently they find out that the ET is WAAAAY overmodelled and should be banned for lifetime ( or something like that ) :D .

On the other side the guys flying the russian byrds say whats the fuzz ??:confused:

The ET is as it allways has been !!The only thing that has changed is the way the ET is beeing used now because someone found out that it can be used in a more creative way then just to be smacked up the tailpipe of someone you are lucky enough to have on your 12 oclock.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Pilotasso:

 

It seems to me that you want the AMRAAM to suck at any cost so you can be convinced that you marvelous anti-AMRAAM tactics such as these are fruit of your "endless talent". Comon get real.

 

 

I think noone wants the AMRAAM to suck because then the F-15 would be no serious adversary in fact i want the AMRAAM just the way it is right now.

I allso think the 27ET is just like it should be ATM because it has allways been this way ... nothing has changed since 1.12 came out in that direction i guess.

 

This new ET approach now forces the AMRAAM jockeys to rethink the tactics they have used for a loooong period of time and that seems to really pi## them off big time.:mad:

[Pilotasso]

And Breakshot, the whole point is to increase the effectiveness of AMRAAM and other radar missiles in the no-escape zone. Targets in the no-escape zone should die. Furthermore, the AMRAAM's PK IRL is over 60%. In LOMAC, you'd be lucky to get half that, and that's only if you're a good pilot.

 

The way the game models missiles it will be extremely unlikly to get sure kills in the no escape zone, and to be honest I want a good pilot to still be able to dodge missiles.

 

I think we can make a good balance between fun and realistic real world tactics. This is the most important thing.

 

If ED tries to model NEZ 100% kill effecteviness it will still bork things up but to the reverse problem we have right now. And I dont think real missiles are 100% efective even in the NEZ. I recall that there are proximity kill envelopes and specific problems for the fuse to work in certain intercepet trajectories. Without WAFM I dont think we can count on this to be taken realisticaly donne, hence the balance I mentioned.

[Breakshot]

Breakshot, I would very much like to read some more info on the R-27ET, I would apreciate that you linked me to a reliable source

 

Allright here are 2 slides of actual Su-27 manual regarding missile emplyment.

 

Basically it states the Guidelines and parameters at which the missile is launched. ET is number 4 in the table and in forward aspect has a maximum emplyment range of 53km!(perfect conditions offcorse) The missile is inertial guided at first stage of flight. There are disclamers however that weather/sun etc can affect the effectiveness. But not drive the missile blind like some might think! Also the plane can do up to 6gs when launching, when the seeker is out of limits!(The R73 up to 8gs) So the AC actually downloads the coordinates of the target upon launch...

 

 

I also fly ALL fighters, and to be honest I find the F15 lot more superior in BVR and it is definately the best AC in that respect to get the kills. And Yes i flew in it since 1.12a and have gotten better K/D ratios than in any Russian bird. A combo of Aim7 + 120 is very hard to beat!

[Pilotasso]

Country:

 

Oh boy, did you even looked at the tracks?

 

Let me remind you:

 

A)180º Off boresight capability and viewcone (yeah right!!)

B)Maddog ET capability (wich is only possible on ARH otherwise youll hit a greenhose or a barbecue)

C)The stupendous AMRAAM dodging technique: Fly straight and dump 15 chaff cartriges very fast. WHY NOT MODEL THIS FOR THE R-27's? ;)

 

Lets see whos biased now.

 

So let me try to sum this discussion up so far:

 

F-15 jocks are upset ( to put it mildly ) because they more and more often get shot down by 27ETs and so far they dont have any idea how to deal with it.

And suddently they find out that the ET is WAAAAY overmodelled and should be banned for lifetime ( or something like that ) :D .

 

The apreciation of the matter on the part of, and I emphatize this, RUSSIAN AIRCRAFT EXLUSIVE pilots is rather fantastic. I want you to point me someone who flies all aircraft that thinks the ET is realistic and the AMRAAM should be as it is now.

 

The Point of this thread is to detect the issues A) B) and C) and solve them, PERIOD.

Believe me I tried to be objective and all I get from some russian type flyers is flak and demagogy.

 

The ET is as it allways has been !!The only thing that has changed is the way the ET is beeing used now because someone found out that it can be used in a more creative way then just to be smacked up the tailpipe of someone you are lucky enough to have on your 12 oclock.

 

In your view Unrealistic is spelled "creative"?

Craetive indeed, I dont know how on earth the russians are the only ones on earth who came up with an IR AMRRAAM equivalent that doesnt give any warning and can be maddoged up to 30 KM!! And thats with 15 year old technology with no upgrades.

 

Creative as in "star wars" thats more like it.

 

And the ET hasnt been what it always been. In 1,02 it had linked mid course guidance just like the AMRAAM has. It wasnt been further adjusted probably with comercial concerns since the main market is the CIS.

 

 

I think noone wants the AMRAAM to suck because then the F-15 would be no serious adversary in fact i want the AMRAAM just the way it is right now.

I allso think the 27ET is just like it should be ATM because it has allways been this way ... nothing has changed since 1.12 came out in that direction i guess.

 

This new ET approach now forces the AMRAAM jockeys to rethink the tactics they have used for a loooong period of time and that seems to really pi## them off big time.:mad:

 

What you want or think is not always what you get in real life, get over it.

And the "tactics they have used for a loooong period of time " were far more credible than goin 1 on 1 with a mig under 3 miles to get 1 of the 8 missiles to hit while having to dodge all his missiles on the way in: Im sure your perfectly confortable with this idea but thats only possible in Alice's wonderland.

I wonder why didnt the Iraquis killed all the US fighters with their R-60s when the AMARRAM's couldnt guide frontaly. ;)

Maybe they didnt win the war and they just hypnotized us so.

[Breakshot]

See, this is already proof that you don't know what you're talking about. IR missiles are usually launched BEFORE the radar missile because having the radar missile launched first might confuse the IR missile because it's rocket motor is in its seeker FOV.

 

Wow nice D-Scythe I got a nice picture of how ur mind works, therefore I will hope that u will not reply to any of my opinions or anyone else that disagrees with u for that matter. Because u seem to "know it all" Congrats!

 

Bck to the point, the first stage of flight is Inertial guidance so the seeker does not look for targets at launch because it already has the data uploaded to the missile. And even if the target is very close the computer will probably filter out any IR signature that it recognises (such as other own missiles).

 

Your "expert" opinion is just a blatant guess! Also the missiles arent launched behind each other as there is no pylon positioning for that. Also the missiles are plrobably launched with some sort of gap in time say 3-4 sec is enough (Thats probably what they learn in training).

 

Anyway we are all posting here on this thread to voice our opinions on the topic to have a better understanding. And because it seems like some people have absolutely no respect for that, and since no sides seem to listen to each other anyway, I will exuse myself from posting any more on this thread......

[Pilotasso]

Break, I'll look into your documnets as soon as I have the reading time. I already passed working time here. Ill post something in the next 4 hours.

[D-Scythe]

The way the game models missiles it will be extremely unlikly to get sure kills in the no escape zone, and to be honest I want a good pilot to still be able to dodge missiles.

 

I think we can make a good balance between fun and realistic real world tactics. This is the most important thing.

 

If ED tries to model NEZ 100% kill effecteviness it will still bork things up but to the reverse problem we have right now. And I dont think real missiles are 100% efective even in the NEZ. I recall that there are proximity kill envelopes and specific problems for the fuse to work in certain intercepet trajectories. Without WAFM I dont think we can count on this to be taken realisticaly donne, hence the balance I mentioned.

 

I'm not asking for a 100% missile PK either. What I am advocating, though, is that the AMRAAM (and all other advanced missiles) be modelled better in their no-escape zone so that people would respect that specific portion of the weapon envelope.

 

The party going on there currently is ridiculous.

[D-Scythe]

Wow nice D-Scythe I got a nice picture of how ur mind works, therefore I will hope that u will not reply to any of my opinions or anyone else that disagrees with u for that matter. Because u seem to "know it all" Congrats!

 

Ok, my bad on the snapping part. It's just that some people are getting on my nerves and it's pretty early in the morning. So again, I apologize.

 

Bck to the point, the first stage of flight is Inertial guidance so the seeker does not look for targets at launch because it already has the data uploaded to the missile. And even if the target is very close the computer will probably filter out any IR signature that it recognises (such as other own missiles).

 

That's wrong. Even if initial guidance is turned off, the radar missile will still be in front of the ET in the end-game. And FYI, there is no way for the guidance computer to recognize a specific IR signature as a missile. Again, IR missiles do not have a doppler equivalent to tell apart what is from what. I can't emphasize this point enough.

 

IR missiles are stupid in this respect, compared to radar missiles. They need to be cued to which IR signature to hit, as they cannot tell if a specific IR signature is the ground, a cloud, a flare, the sun, etc. Radar missiles, on the other hand, have doppler to at least tell apart what is moving and what is not.

 

Your "expert" opinion is just a blatant guess!

 

No it's not. It's standard Soviet doctrine, for the reasons mentioned above.

 

Also the missiles arent launched behind each other as there is no pylon positioning for that. Also the missiles are plrobably launched with some sort of gap in time say 3-4 sec is enough (Thats probably what they learn in training).

 

It doesn't matter. Both radar and IR missiles use the same navigation algorithms, so it's almost gauranteed the radar missile will be inside the IR missiles FOV if it is launched first.

 

Anyway we are all posting here on this thread to voice our opinions on the topic to have a better understanding. And because it seems like some people have absolutely no respect for that, and since no sides seem to listen to each other anyway, I will exuse myself from posting any more on this thread......

 

Lock On is a sim. There are no places for opinions when discussing changes to be made to it.

 

Again, I apologize for snapping at you like that. But you are wrong.

[Breakshot]

Again, I apologize for snapping at you like that. But you are wrong.

 

Apology Accepted

I do have a tip for you though:

You are in no position to tell anyone that he/she is wrong, because this my opinion on the subject. I am by no means a "expert/scientist" whose formula could be proven/disproven by simple mathematical calculation. Unless you actually work/fly with this missiles, your opininon is no more "correct" than mine!

 

Also in the End-Game the missile motor is burned out (it only takes couple of seconds) and at that speed it will cool instantly, therefore the missile will have no heat signature what so ever, the missile will probably have ice forming on it! Also different types of missile use different type of navigation. Just compare ARH vs SARH, so I dont see your point there.

 

Anyway i just had to set that straight.... I am out for sure now

[Pilotasso]

Just (tried to) read your document. Since I do not know any russian and cant spell most words in cyrilic either, can you translate for me the table entries of:

 

-2./5 and 2./6 entries

-The entire 4. Line

 

Regarding the IR abilities in bad weather, bear in mind that it is very relative and it is very well known that water vapor works as a black body (a thermodynamic term) to these wave lenghts. While it will still guide through moist air it wont see past clouds. They are too dense to see through unless they are very, very faded as mere transparent haze.

 

Regarding both posts above you can always take in consideration the best fundamented opinion and not close your eyes to any that doesnt provide mathematical evidence because thats a trap. It only favors one side of the argument by default. And doesnt take you closer to the truth.

 

I dont buy "you are a whinner" ( ;) )argument as proof the ET should be maddoged and have 180º degrees viewcone either. Not by a longshot. I prefer well placed and fundamented opinions.

 

Breakshot if you show that the ET has mid course guidance it is ok. But thats still different from maddogging since you require to keep feeding the missile the targets position while what we see online is that by that time most MIG/SU drivers preferred not to be facing its target by the time it guides on its own. If the ET indeed has mid course guidance or any sytem of the sort, it would then be more correct that the russian aircraft must keep lock untill the seeker is ready to guide. And that will decrease its efecteviness dramaticaly since, then the launcher will be axposed all the way in untill the last 20 KM (11-12 miles) or so.

[D-Scythe]

Apology Accepted

I do have a tip for you though:

You are in no position to tell anyone that he/she is wrong, because this my opinion on the subject. I am by no means a "expert/scientist" whose formula could be proven/disproven by simple mathematical calculation. Unless you actually work/fly with this missiles, your opininon is no more "correct" than mine!

 

Well, if we're talking about changing Lock On, then opinions sorta don't count.

 

Also in the End-Game the missile motor is burned out (it only takes couple of seconds) and at that speed it will cool instantly, therefore the missile will have no heat signature what so ever, the missile will probably have ice forming on it!

 

You ever hear of something call air friction? You know, the kind that generates enough heat on the metal surface of a high speed object? The heat that allows IR missiles to lock onto in an all aspect engagement? ;)

 

Moreover, I doubt that the engine would cool in seconds. Maybe the exterior (although I'm pretty sure there may be a vacuum or something that prevents the exhaust of the engine from coming into contact with the air), but the interior of the engine would still retain most of its heat. This can pose unnecessary problems for the IR missile.

 

Also different types of missile use different type of navigation. Just compare ARH vs SARH, so I dont see your point there.

 

All missiles use proportional navigation (in some form or another) to fly the most optimal, energy conserving path to its target. This includes IR and radar missiles. Missile guidance really has nothing to do with how the missile navigates to the target. For example, the seeker, radar or IR, can track and hit the target without ever knowing the range of the target at any portion of the intercept.

 

Basically, the guidance just keeps the target centred, and since the missile is moving towards the target, it will eventually pass close enough to the target to activate its missile fuse to detonate the warhead. How the target is "centred" depends on whether its radar or IR guidance, but the path to intercept and the end result is the same.

[S77th-Paralyzer]

I think they are spoiled crybabies whos ego is so high that they can't come in terms with the fact that they're now regullary blown off the skies, so are now almost demanding and threatining with ED changing the missile behaviour.

 

During my online years I was smacked down by Amraams like, hundreds of times, never bothered about how realistic it is modelled in the game and never had any thoughts about whining on the forums about it. I just kept playing the game and tried to get the best out of my plane/package.

 

Now, when I and my other online friends, found the way to legally put the crybabies ashame, we have a situations like these, armchair 'experts' teaching us we're being exploiters, loopholers etc.

 

Well, let them whine. I'm sure ED will listen to their 'advices' the same way he's been listening to them all this time regarding a "underpowered" Amraam..ROFL...

 

Good point.