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[CLOSED] wings break off at 4g


9.JG27 DavidRed
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Maybe it is just a manifestation of the sabotage that was rife in late war German equipment. Have you read the reports written by the ferry pilots?

 

Just a few missing rivets and bang, there goes a wing!

 

Seriously though, I can definitely confirm that for short durations, as high as 7G is possible in a similar aircraft - the Yak52. They're stressed to +9 and -3G as fas as I recall, and I have certainly pulled +7 and -3 without any blacking out. You sit in an upright posture in the Yak too, and as long as you strain, you can stand 7G for a few seconds, and lesser G loadings for longer.

 

That gives me the impression that WW2 aircrew would be able to hold fairly high G - unless of course the strain method was unknown to them? Without that, I dare say 4G would give them serious problems, and any higher they'd soon reach their limits.

 

So, do we know if WW2 pilots even knew about strain methods of keeping the blood high in their bodies?

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So, do we know if WW2 pilots even knew about strain methods of keeping the blood high in their bodies?

 

I think it was very early in this knowledge, but G-suits and seat position was starting to happen. On that note, I have also reported that we should be getting some more warning that we are pulling too many Gs, as in the tunnel vision or blacking out...

 

So I reported wing strength, pilot black out effects, and the weird flame when a wing tip is knocked off...

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So, do we know if WW2 pilots even knew about strain methods of keeping the blood high in their bodies?

 

I recall accounts of allied pilots saying that they were told to shout during high Gs. I don't know what the situation was for Germans though.

 

The most likely is that they did some maneuvers but didn't know how best to implement the combined Valsalva with leg squeeze and breathing, that is used today etc.

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I was practising the single mission against the P51.

About 4 times in a row in the initial head on pass (very close to each ither) the wing tips ripped off seconds after the P51 passed by. This was before I started to make the turn and load up any G's on the airframe.

At first I thought he must have fired and got lucky, but the debrief indicated a clean pass. On all occasions this was accompanied by a fuselage fire.

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I am sure that most of these underdeveloped areas of the aircraft the programmers know about. But thanks for taking the time to listen to us the users and being so patient while you are doing it.

So far every module that ED has had time with has turned out to be the best available of any made for my home computer.

Thanks for cruising the forums and helping us with questions and submissions.

The reality for me is I have more than enough aircraft here to play with while they are finishing it, I just have to fly within the constraints that are present at this time.

Thanks ED for letting us have it early.:drunk:

 

Well said.

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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Is Rolling G limit modelled in DCS ? The reason I ask is that in the limited K4 flying I have done I tend to loose a wingtip easier if Rolling and pulling. given IRL Rolling G limits are significantly lower than symmetrical G limits.

 

It seems like it, least to me.

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Now that you mention it, I believe that on most of the occasions I lost mine I was in some rolling process too :)

 

I've been able to get blackout without losing the wings too, just as you mentioned.

 

Trying to play a pair of missions starting airborne against 2 or 4 p51ds is useless becasue as soon as I get into dogfight my wing tips go away :-/

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For me the bigger problem was the lack of tunnel vision.

 

2w4jv4z.jpg

2md5fk1.jpg

 

In beta version i pulled 8.8 g b4 my wing broke.But no black vision at all.

In real life you feel the G force on your body but in game imho we need some kind of visual warning i guess.Or audio(metal stress sounds and what not).

 

Sith i know you already reported this but just wanted to express my opinion.

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No worries, internally I think it is working better, that said, be-careful you are pulling real manoeuvres and not something a pilot simple wouldn't do, I can pull so hard on the stick that I can snap a wing off before the blackout has a chance to start... but its not a real manoeuvre, would be suicide I think.

 

Example, I put the 109 in a steep dive, took it to the edge of max speed, and tried to recover/level out, but not overly aggressive, I started to see the tunnel, but never broke a wing.... but if I was overly aggressive, the wing would snap and the G's would subside before I had a chance to see the blackness creep in.... of course I would spiral to my death :)

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Example, I put the 109 in a steep dive, took it to the edge of max speed, and tried to recover/level out, but not overly aggressive, I started to see the tunnel, but never broke a wing.... but if I was overly aggressive, the wing would snap and the G's would subside before I had a chance to see the blackness creep in.... of course I would spiral to my death :)

 

I still think some form of fedback should be made available for users without FF controllers.

 

We should be able to "feel" the controls stifness as we aproach higher speeds / Gs...

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Welll, ELITE does it very plausibly, both in their "Pilot" versions and in the FNPT using or not hydarulically actuated controllers, but even MSFS is capable of doing the same. Aerowinx Ps1 was yet another good example...

 

In X-Plane there is also the chance to program this, when not using FF controllers, through a method called "Control Phase-Out", that is there in the first place for different reasons ( pertaining to the modeling of FBW systems... ) but can be used to recreate a sensation of running away of control auhtority / effectiveness at higher speeds and Gs...

 

This is one of the few negative aspects of DCS's FDM IMHO, and I am speaking from the perspective of someone who does not own a FF controller. The first time I felt it was when I started using the p51d.

 

Curiously, to mention yet another flight simulator where this is only modeled plausibly if you use a FF controller, but if you do then it is, as I was told by various credible sources, extremelly well modeled, is Rise of Flight. As a user of this sim, I can say that appart from entering accelerated stalls, I was at first negatively impressed by the way my ww1 machines responded to control inputs ( eventually breaking their wings ) without much hint of forces being required to operate them.... The truth is that the sim was programmed to be used preferably with a FF joystick, and then it is said that the results are indeed probably the best achieved in any PC-base flight simulation game so far.

 

How's DCS FF? Is it good as well?

 

Yes I know about all of the arguments regarding our sticks not being comparable to RW sticks, bla.. bla... and I agree with that, but even if we use real size / course sticks, the problems will be there because there's no plausible forme of force feedback...


Edited by jcomm

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No worries, internally I think it is working better, that said, be-careful you are pulling real manoeuvres and not something a pilot simple wouldn't do, I can pull so hard on the stick that I can snap a wing off before the blackout has a chance to start... but its not a real manoeuvre, would be suicide I think.

 

Example, I put the 109 in a steep dive, took it to the edge of max speed, and tried to recover/level out, but not overly aggressive, I started to see the tunnel, but never broke a wing.... but if I was overly aggressive, the wing would snap and the G's would subside before I had a chance to see the blackness creep in.... of course I would spiral to my death :)

 

 

I was doing a downward spiral.Something i would do in a fight. I had no idea i was pulling so much g.

K4-g.trk

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I was doing a downward spiral.Something i would do in a fight. I had no idea i was pulling so much g.

 

As I said, I believe its better internally, but thank you for the track, I can try to repeat in the sim and see how it is in the tester version.

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I believe what you state here would be faking effects in to compensate for what their (the other sims) FM isnt doing. ED, I dont think would do that, if you feel you are suffering from lack of feel, maybe a FF controller is something to look at. But ED isnt going to add stuff to their FM to fake in feeling.

 

Welll, ELITE does it very plausibly, both in their "Pilot" versions and in the FNPT using or not hydarulically actuated controllers, but even MSFS is capable of doing the same. Aerowinx Ps1 was yet another good example...

 

In X-Plane there is also the chance to program this, when not using FF controllers, through a method called "Control Phase-Out", that is there in the first place for different reasons ( pertaining to the modeling of FBW systems... ) but can be used to recreate a sensation of running away of control auhtority / effectiveness at higher speeds and Gs...

 

This is one of the few negative aspects of DCS's FDM IMHO, and I am speaking from the perspective of someone who does not own a FF controller. The first time I felt it was when I started using the p51d.

 

Curiously, to mention yet another flight simulator where this is only modeled plausibly if you use a FF controller, but if you do then it is, as I was told by various credible sources, extremelly well modeled, is Rise of Flight. As a user of this sim, I can say that appart from entering accelerated stalls, I was at first negatively impressed by the way my ww1 machines responded to control inputs ( eventually breaking their wings ) without much hint of forces being required to operate them.... The truth is that the sim was programmed to be used preferably with a FF joystick, and then it is said that the results are indeed probably the best achieved in any PC-base flight simulation game so far.

 

How's DCS FF? Is it good as well?

 

Yes I know about all of the arguments regarding our sticks not being comparable to RW sticks, bla.. bla... and I agree with that, but even if we use real size / course sticks, the problems will be there because there's no plausible forme of force feedback...

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