Is it just me or is Dora's rudder now more effective?

[Pilum]

I have since I got the K4 of course been testing out it's characteristics and left the Dora in the hangar.

 

To me it seemed easier to do takeoff's in the K4 because it seemed more responsive to rudder input and there also there seemed to be less lag than with the Dora. No need to tap the brakes at all.

 

Then it struck me that we now have 1.2.12 and has this been tweaked in the Dora as well?

 

Before 1.2.12 I used to have to use the brakes to keep straight but now the rudder is all I need and taking off is a breeze :)

 

So is it just me or has this been adjusted? Anyone else notice any difference in Dora's response to rudder at takeoff?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Pilum
Mixed up rudder and brakes in third sentence ;-)

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Pilum,

 

I can't test with the Dora, because I no longer own it's license ( will buy it again probably on the next Promotional Sales... ) so I can't answer your question, but I did notice that the deflected propwash effects I once mentioned in another thread were fine tuned and now seem very plausibly modeled to me.

 

When I installed 1.2.12 I rushed testing the K4 on a circuit under a 10m/s x-wind, and it behaved perfect! Ten I tried the same on the p51d, and again all was good, so, I assume it got fixed :)

[Pilum]

Yep, either they tweaked this or I have made huge progress as a pilot. Unfortunately I don't think it's the latter :smilewink:

[Art-J]

Is seems adjustable horizontal stabilizer has been adjusted a bit as well :D. Makes final approach easier. You can dial out nose heaviness with gear and full flaps down more than you used to before.

[Pilum]

Correction: Now with the latest patch it seems like the Dora is back to what is was before (or close to) and that the K4 rudder authority has been similarly adjusted to be less responsive :(

[Yurgon]

Correction: Now with the latest patch it seems like the Dora is back to what is was before (or close to) and that the K4 rudder authority has been similarly adjusted to be less responsive :(

 

I was going to respond that the Dora does seem easier to take-off and land now - but I was referring to the latest 1.2.12.35194. :music_whistling:

 

Or maybe that's because I watched a couple of guys splatter their Messerschmitts all over the runway today while I did a couple of touch'n gos and ultimately had to land and refuel the Dora. :D

(I later decided to get the Bf 109 as well, currently planning to take the cockpit tour after reading a bit on the forum, so I know I'm in for a world of pain as well :D).

 

But kidding aside, the Dora's rudder response did feel pretty good to me in this latest version. Either it was tweaked a bit or muscle memory has caught up with take-offs and landings - not sure which.

[fastfreddie]

I was going to respond that the Dora does seem easier to take-off and land now - but I was referring to the latest 1.2.12.35194. :music_whistling:

 

Or maybe that's because I watched a couple of guys splatter their Messerschmitts all over the runway today while I did a couple of touch'n gos and ultimately had to land and refuel the Dora. :D

(I later decided to get the Bf 109 as well, currently planning to take the cockpit tour after reading a bit on the forum, so I know I'm in for a world of pain as well :D).

 

But kidding aside, the Dora's rudder response did feel pretty good to me in this latest version. Either it was tweaked a bit or muscle memory has caught up with take-offs and landings - not sure which.

 

If you can take off and land in the Dora you should be ok in the 109. Torque effects are similar just make sure to lift off with stick slightly forward and the K-4 doesn't bounce anywhere close to what the Dora did on landings.

[Art-J]

Rudder seems to be similar or a bit more responsive to me, judging form the input required for changing direction during taxing without brakes @ 1200 RPM. That's obviously subjective opinion. What is not subjective, however, is better elevator authority - previously, trimming out nose heaviness with gear lowered, full flaps and 1500 RPM was possible only down to ~280 km/h. Now it can be done down to ~230. So unless the elevator adjustment range was changed (the indicator gauge is not precise enough to tell), it would seem that prop slipstream is indeed a bit more effective now even below 2000 RPM.

[Yurgon]

If you can take off and land in the Dora you should be ok in the 109. Torque effects are similar just make sure to lift off with stick slightly forward and the K-4 doesn't bounce anywhere close to what the Dora did on landings.

 

So far I had a fatal crash on take-off and on my next attempt a very swirly take-off that finally saw me get airborne. I guess it's going to be reliably survivable with more practice. :)

 

But sorry for OT, I'll eventually follow that up over at the Kurfürst-Forum.

[71st_Mastiff]

So far I had a fatal crash on take-off and on my next attempt a very swirly take-off that finally saw me get airborne. I guess it's going to be reliably survivable with more practice. :)

 

But sorry for OT, I'll eventually follow that up over at the Kurfürst-Forum.

 

I DONT THINK SO I CANT TAKE OFF ANY LONGER I KEEP YAWING HARD LEFT AND FLIPPING OVER.

[Chappie]

So far I had a fatal crash on take-off and on my next attempt a very swirly take-off that finally saw me get airborne. I guess it's going to be reliably survivable with more practice. :)

 

 

 

But sorry for OT, I'll eventually follow that up over at the Kurfürst-Forum.

 

 

You just need a procedure and I have one for you to try. I struggled with Dora take offs until I was given this procedure:

 

- On the runway, align and roll forward to straighten the tail

wheel

 

- Stick back and to the right on hard stop to lock the tail

wheel

 

- Right full rudder and power full forward

 

- Adjust rudder on the roll and when airspeed is alive, begin

relaxing stick force but maintain a general rear and right

position

 

- Allow the Dora to cling out and raise the gear/flaps

 

- Open the cowl flaps completely and you can run the

engine full power until fuel runs out

[Derbysieger]

- Open the cowl flaps completely and you can run the

engine full power until fuel runs out

 

You will also be a bit slower with the cowl flaps open and use an excessive amount of fuel. If our engine is warmed up properly you won't need manual control at all unless you're putting the engine through extreme stress.

 

I ran some tests a few months back at various power settings up to 3000RPM around 20000-25000ft with the cowl flaps completely open, closed and some settings in between. The difference between completely open and closed was up to 40knots faster (ground speed) when they were closed IIRC.

 

I did not test emergency power (3250RPM) and MW-50 though.

 

There is no way the tests were completely accurate but they did show clear differences. I also had problems keeping the engine warm with the cowl flaps open so that might be another explanation for the differences (keep in mind I was at 6 to 8km ASL).

 

It's good practice to reduce power once your gear and flaps are up. I usually use 2800-3000RPM for the climb and throttle back to 2200-2400RPM at altitude. For dogfights I run between 2800-3000RPM. 3250RPM only if I need additional power (+MW50 to cool the engine and below 6000m even more power).

[Chappie]

You will also be a bit slower with the cowl flaps open and use an excessive amount of fuel. If our engine is warmed up properly you won't need manual control at all unless you're putting the engine through extreme stress.

 

I ran some tests a few months back at various power settings up to 3000RPM around 20000-25000ft with the cowl flaps completely open, closed and some settings in between. The difference between completely open and closed was up to 40knots faster (ground speed) when they were closed IIRC.

 

I did not test emergency power (3250RPM) and MW-50 though.

 

There is no way the tests were completely accurate but they did show clear differences. I also had problems keeping the engine warm with the cowl flaps open so that might be another explanation for the differences (keep in mind I was at 6 to 8km ASL).

 

It's good practice to reduce power once your gear and flaps are up. I usually use 2800-3000RPM for the climb and throttle back to 2200-2400RPM at altitude. For dogfights I run between 2800-3000RPM. 3250RPM only if I need additional power (+MW50 to cool the engine and below 6000m even more power).

 

 

I agree. I like knowing how to run the 190 and 109 engines at max so when in dog fight I have max power avail at all times without concerning myself with engine management during a dogfight.

 

In combat, I have had no problem with cowl flap application and reduced ground speed. I think it is to me more piece of mind that I can select full power and add emergency power without my engine overheating while offering me the speed I need to close distance on my target.

 

I agree this is not realistic but since there is no penalty except increased fuel burn whereas in reality I could throw a rod, but out a cylinder, or blow up my engine, I am willing to accept this.

[Yurgon]

I DONT THINK SO I CANT TAKE OFF ANY LONGER I KEEP YAWING HARD LEFT AND FLIPPING OVER.

 

See Chappie's post, that works for me as well (I've last flown yesterday in 1.2.12).

 

Also, make sure that "Auto Rudder" and "Take-off assistance" are set to Off and 0 in the Options under Special.

 

You just need a procedure and I have one for you to try. I struggled with Dora take offs until I was given this procedure: [...]

 

People are so helpful around here. I wasn't even asking for help with the Fw 190, just noting that I was still struggling with the Bf 109 (that was 2 days ago; by now I think I can reliably take off without killing anyone). :D

 

But yeah, the procedure you wrote is exactly the one that helped me with the Fw 190, hopefully it'll help Mastiff. :thumbup:

[Rabbit_]

Maybe it's just because You are skipping from Bf to Fw. And I don't mean it as a irony or something. Dora is fine. Difficult but ok. I still mess the landings as well from time to time, but when I'm not switching from UH to Ka and from A-10 to FW and focus on Dora (for example), it starts to feel comfortable.

[ctguy1955]

I DONT THINK SO I CANT TAKE OFF ANY LONGER I KEEP YAWING HARD LEFT AND FLIPPING OVER.

 

 

 

I did the flip over to the left about a hundred times and got pretty mad,

 

I had a guy sit on the runway to the side and watched me while we were

chatting on TS3 and He gave me hints as to what to do. I started getting

very good at take offs and then bought the Mig21. After 3 days of messing

with that, I came back to the Dora. Now Im learning that watching

the gages is more important then looking outside the plane. I used to

use the brakes a lot, now I dont touch them. I sit on runway and just

go full throttle and keep it straight with just the rudder. I count to ten

and allow my stick to go forward and just put a tiny bit of right aileron

and the plane lifts up on its own. If you try to pull back to much on the

stick, you stall and flip over the the left...every time.

 

Good luck and once you finally get the hang of it, You still have to

keep it in the back of your mind to pay attention to what you are doing.:pilotfly: