Pilotasso Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 I think the Su-30MKI would have a go at that. Not saying that it would be better but would give Raptor a run for it's money. In the close in slow speed BFM. Some of the things the MKI does, I don't think the Raptor can do. 2D v 3D vectoring? I think that kill record is 105+. The Su-30MKI, is an excelent fighter but remenber its still a 3rd generation aircraft with better avionics wich doesnt necessarily make it good enough to face the F-22 on the same level. The Su-30 was not designed to face fighters that are much newer and meant for the next 40 years. The Su-30 is a plane designed to be a credible fighter to gain export sales, and has not been envisaged to counter future threats per se. Much less the raptor. The SU recieved this version upgrade in a few years in an economicaly wornt out country while the raptor has been carefully polished for 20 years and made to last as the dominant bird that long. You cant improvise a half baked 3rd gen aircraft to be a match for a full blown 4rth gen aircraft. Further more all the Su-30's TVC and manuverability stunts are only usefull in a very narrow spectrum of air combat scenarios, untill then theres much room between BVR and a knife fight were the Raptor simply enjoys all the advantages. Imagine you want to fire a missile and cant keep a stable lock while you know he can already be locked on you without you knowing so because his AESA radar has low probability of intercet, furthermore you will only know you've been shot at when his AMRAAM's go active, too soon and at the same time too late to use TVC. .
Pilotasso Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 I think the Su-30MKI would have a go at that. Not saying that it would be better but would give Raptor a run for it's money. In the close in slow speed BFM. Some of the things the MKI does, I don't think the Raptor can do. 2D v 3D vectoring? I think that kill record is 105+. The Su-30MKI, is an excelent fighter but remenber its still a 3rd generation aircraft with better avionics wich doesnt necessarily make it good enough to face the F-22 on the same level. The Su-30 was not designed to face fighters that are much newer and meant for the next 40 years. The Su-30 is a plane designed to be a credible fighter to gain export sales, and has not been envisaged to counter future threats per se. Much less the raptor. The SU recieved this version upgrade in a few years in an economicaly wornt out country while the raptor has been carefully polished for 20 years and made to last as the dominant bird that long. You cant improvise a half baked 3rd gen aircraft to be a match for a full blown 4rth gen aircraft. Further more all the Su-30's TVC and manuverability stunts are only usefull in a very narrow spectrum of air combat scenarios, untill then theres much room between BVR and a knife fight where the Raptor simply enjoys all the advantages to rip the oponents guts apart. Imagine you want to fire a missile and cant keep a stable lock while you know he can already be locked on you without you knowing so because his AESA radar has low probability of intercept, furthermore you will only know you've been shot at when his AMRAAM's go active, too soon and at the same time too late to use TVC. .
hitman Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Just frustrated, is all. Some Hornet guy gets the pleasure of killing an F-22 in a mock gunfight, and all of a sudden Super Hornets are these super deadly slow speed dancers that people shouldn't mess with. Or even worse, people saying that the Raptor is not up to spec, the pilot sucks, etc. This is like the 4th thread in a week about this incident, and everytime I hear the same thing. At first, it was amusing to see people judge the Raptor and Hornet based on these two pics, but then it got repetitive. Like honestly, nobody knows the *real* capabilities of the Raptor, and now these two photos are being used as proof for these ridiculous notions and ideas all because of ONE Raptor under the piper and inside the ROE bubble of a Super Hornet. A Raptor wouldn't BE in this situation in real life. Cause that Hornet would be dead 30 miles before the merge. I know what it is...your aggrivated because the Tomcat was replaced by the Superbug...Iz coo', y0. We all feel that way. :horseback J/K btw...
Guest IguanaKing Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Just frustrated, is all. Some Hornet guy gets the pleasure of killing an F-22 in a mock gunfight, and all of a sudden Super Hornets are these super deadly slow speed dancers that people shouldn't mess with. Or even worse, people saying that the Raptor is not up to spec, the pilot sucks, etc. This is like the 4th thread in a week about this incident, and everytime I hear the same thing. At first, it was amusing to see people judge the Raptor and Hornet based on these two pics, but then it got repetitive. Like honestly, nobody knows the *real* capabilities of the Raptor, and now these two photos are being used as proof for these ridiculous notions and ideas all because of ONE Raptor under the piper and inside the ROE bubble of a Super Hornet. Roger...understand. Hell, you may have gotten frustrated by reading the discussion at that link. One of those guys over there was REALLY unprofessional...I like inter-service rivalry as much as the next guy...but screaming over and over about "incompetence" on the part of other pilots is a little excessive. I can see where constant discussion of a press article gets under your skin....I lost count of how many times I have looked at Cope India and Cobra threads and said "Oh, Christ...not this s**t again!" I guess we all have our hot buttons...wanna press mine?... just talk about A2G fratricide. I'm a little nutty about that. ;)
Pilotasso Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 This stunt on the hornets part has not changed my opinion about it. A well flown F-16 or a mig-29 could have make it as well in a scripted WVR drill such as this. Those who had changed their opionions about the bug in such manner were surely missinformed anyway. Thats what you get with biased views. Biased views are current trademarks of human behaviour. thats a fact. .
hitman Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Heres an OT question...on the super hornets, did they use existing airframes to modify or did they build new airframes?
Pilotasso Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 They built new ones. The airframe is too different to be modifyed from a legacy hornet. .
D-Scythe Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Roger...understand. Hell, you may have gotten frustrated by reading the discussion at that link. One of those guys over there was REALLY unprofessional...I like inter-service rivalry as much as the next guy...but screaming over and over about "incompetence" on the part of other pilots is a little excessive. I can see where constant discussion of a press article gets under your skin....I lost count of how many times I have looked at Cope India and Cobra threads and said "Oh, Christ...not this s**t again!" I guess we all have our hot buttons...wanna press mine?... just talk about A2G fratricide. I'm a little nutty about that. ;) Heh, it's not really the issue, but more the timing I think...guess it's that time of the month huh? :p
23rd_SATAN Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 You guys remember what the Red Baron said? "It is not the crate that counts, it is the man in it." it is NOT the F-22 that will dominate any future air battles, it will be the superior training of our pilots. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
23rd_SATAN Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 And, I think the PIC answers ALL questions. The F-22 pilot messed up. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
mikoriad Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Slightly OT...... Shame they can free up the f-16's FLCS a little. Seems that if it could have more AoA athority it would give more hell then it already does. Althlon X2 6400+ 3.2 ghz EVGA 8800GT SC - 512mb X-45 MOMO pedals
upyr1 Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Considering that bad pilots don’t ever have the chance to see an F-22 cockpit from the inside, I don’t buy your statement. Nice pic! You just made my day! (Ok I just love the classic fighter planes more) The other caption is Pappy was right I'd rather be lucky than good any day. :icon_supe :horseback
Pilotasso Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Slightly OT...... Shame they can free up the f-16's FLCS a little. Seems that if it could have more AoA athority it would give more hell then it already does. This is another misconception. You cant say nothing about an aircraft lift power basin gon max AOA it can do. You will find that 1 fighter does a turn at one AOA and another does the same turn with a different AOA. The AOA is there as a symptom of extra lift the pilot is demanding and in general the more wing area you have the more lift and the less AOA you need for a turn. The F-16's 30 degree limit is more tham emough to outurn most fighters out there. And it isnt a brick at low speeds either, I've seen one cirling around a tower behind me some clicks away at the edge of sustained flight, and it rocked my world. .
Kenan Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Hey Pilotasso, will u be flying tonight on 504th? I haven't kicked some Eagle asses for a long time. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Commanding Officer of: 2nd Company 1st financial guard battalion "Mrcine" See our squads here and our . Croatian radio chat for DCS World
Pilotasso Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Im finding the 504 mostly empty when I go to HL lately. So I have been on 169, you can find me there as well. youll also find out soon that in the 169 is not nearly as easy to get kills for either side. The situation of the red team has been particulary bleak in the last few days as well so better take some company with you. .
Crusty Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Force, If we come to blows with China, a 50+-year-old aircraft will do most of the fighting. China's fighters and bombers won't be much of a factor after that. ;) Hmm, imo no b52's would even make it to target, dunno.. anyone like to give what they think the battle plan would be for all out us v china? Sorry I know its a bit OT, but its an interesting point Ik made oo err...missus:animals_bunny: ** Anti-Pastie**
GGTharos Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 B-52's don't need to make it to the target ... they just need to spray ALCMs at the air defenses. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Crusty Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Good point..2000 mile range, ...any idea how many in inventory and how hard a target the missiles themselves are? p.s., does Strategic. Arms. Limitation. Treaty still exist in any form? oo err...missus:animals_bunny: ** Anti-Pastie**
phantom_fly85 Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Also, consider how much more airframe time the hornet pilot had in his/her machine verses the F-22 pilot. Imagine if the Hornet pilot was a woman! The jeers would never end!
Pilotasso Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Also, consider how much more airframe time the hornet pilot had in his/her machine verses the F-22 pilot. Imagine if the Hornet pilot was a woman! The jeers would never end! Sorry but this information does not compute! .
Force_Feedback Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Sorry but this information does not compute! I thought they flew the F-14 before they got teh super buggy with pink screens and handle bars to hold yourself because catshots are soo scary (for the tomcat pilot that is). Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
phantom_fly85 Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 I mean the F-22 is new and the pilots to fly it were selected about a year ago. The Super Hornet has flown longer, so the pilot for that airframe had more experience with their jet's qualities.
Cobra360 Posted April 17, 2006 Author Posted April 17, 2006 Current F-22 pilots are ex F-15 and 16 drivers, they already have lots of BFM training and experience. They will not let a new pilot fly the 22 for at least a year yet. There is a high chance that the Hornet pilot is an ex F-14 pilot. IIRC VF-11 converted to the Superhornet aound a year ago. Both pilots, I would say are experienced in BFM, but mybe not so in their current airframes.
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