tflash Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 I dont know if you've already experimented with the combination of EWR radars and heavy artillery, like the awesome SAU Msta's. The point is, that when an friendly EWR radar is near to them, the Msta's start shelling heavily at long range. So you can setup a tactical situation where e.g. a ship is nearing the coast, and gets in range of the Msta's. The Msta's will finish the ship in no time unlesss you manage to kill the EWR, which shuts down the Msta's! I made a similar mission with an armoured column that advances from one side of a hill. As long as the EWR is alive, the Msta's bombard the column heavily taking a heavy toll. Once you disable the EWR, the Msta's shut down, and the column can move on; once it reaches the hilltop the fight becomes more equal and the T-80's in the column can attack the Msta's. Anyway the game allows to do real coordinated air/ground missions with some clever setup. Once mission I did is with an unuspecting Albatros nearing the coast. If you dont kill the EWR in time the Msta's kill the Albatros guaranteed. Best tactics is to first kill the EWR, which gives you more time to eliminate the Msta's. By playing with the distance of the ship you can make the game as tricky as you want! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
christopher m Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 EWR missions I would like to try out thise missions you are talking about. could you post them or let me know where to DL them from ? I too have noticed the long range capalalities of the Mista but I did'nt think to link them with EWR..... Best Regards, [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Christopher M
warthogmadman987 Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 I like doing this, although this isnt something new. Always make the game more spy like.
Colt40Five Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 yeah tflash why don't you submit a mission or two to lockonfiles so we can try em out? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Shepski Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 Try it with the SAU Bereg coastal artillery system for a bigger punch and the Smerch also delivers good offshore bombardment. I also believe that if an AWACS is present you get the same results.
tflash Posted April 19, 2006 Author Posted April 19, 2006 I will post the missions this evening, so you can try out. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
dynamocl Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 Should EWR and AWACS really increase the ability of artillary? It is an interesting feature by all means (and I am not knocking it), but in real life does this increase in ability exist? I know spotters and artillary radar (locates where rounds land) exist and obviously will help, but I wouldnt have thought radar that tracks airborn targets would help. http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/cs/aad_mst.htm http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/cs/alr.htm
Brit_Radar_Dude Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 Yeah what Shepski said - SAU Bereg is perfect for engaging your ship as it is actually mobile coastal artillery. Be aware that you have to carefully set the direction that the Bereg is facing as it can affect whether the Bereg opens fire. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Sorry Death, you lose! It was Professor Plum....
aimmaverick Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 OMG, since when do EWR and Awacs detect surface targets? This game is getting more and more arcadic as time progresses. Its a joke for word "simulation" really, a shame. I wonder what devs have to say. Remember back the advertising of how hardcore this sim would be?
D-Scythe Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 OMG, since when do EWR and Awacs detect surface targets? This game is getting more and more arcadic as time progresses. Its a joke for word "simulation" really, a shame. I wonder what devs have to say. Remember back the advertising of how hardcore this sim would be? Um, AWAC/EWR can pass off information gathered by other sensors to any friendly units in the area properly equipped to recieve the information.
Trident Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 In the absence of JSTARS aircraft and proper arty spotters this arrangement is fine IMHO. Much better and more realistic than if it wasn't there at all, I would say.
upyr1 Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 Stuff likethis makes me wounder if it wouldn't be a good idea for ED to make a sim development kit, so they can foucus on battle field AI and campign? I know the typical screem of no, but if possible any SDK would be sold to developers with these licencing terms 1. it can only be used to develop add ons of ED-sims 2. realism must meet ED's standards in toehr words be on par with the blackshark. 3. ED will recive x ammount for each coppy sold with ex amount going to the developer who will be give the option of becoming part of the ED destrobution network.
tflash Posted April 20, 2006 Author Posted April 20, 2006 Hello Guys, as promised, I uploaded my demo missions to Lockonfiles. These are just meant to show the EWR/Artillery fusion, not full-blown missions. Any comments welcome, since I certainly will make a sequel with real, more challenging missions and I could use any advice! http://www.lockonfiles.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&cid=86&lid=480&ttitle=Demo_EWR_missions#dldetails [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Shepski Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 OMG, since when do EWR and Awacs detect surface targets? This game is getting more and more arcadic as time progresses. Its a joke for word "simulation" really, a shame. I wonder what devs have to say. Remember back the advertising of how hardcore this sim would be? Think about it... if Eagle didn't use any over the horizon logic for artillery and MLRS systems then using only line of sight would make them useless. Using EWR and or AWACS creates a scenario where the batteries would be firing on targets or areas where they have simulated spotters calling in coordinates, be it from air, ground, or sea.
tflash Posted April 20, 2006 Author Posted April 20, 2006 Indeed, it would be rather the other way around: it would be *less* realistic if artillery where not able to engage over the hill. I find this a good solution, since you really can work out a challenging environment. BTW, Shepski, thanks for the tip on the Awacs, i will try that also! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Ardillita Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I want discuss if an ewr station can or can´t detect gropunt-sea targets, BUT, I have downloaded the missions and watch them, in most of them there is something "strange": EWR acts exactly as you say BUT, haven´t anybody noticed that the targets being detected by the ewr stations shouldnñ´t be detected since they should be protected by terrain masking? in most of the missions, the "targets are behing a hill , the ewr or any other ground based radar should not detect them in that conditions, am I wrong?
Ian_cf-18 Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Thanks for these tips guys... A few questions: 1- How close does the EWR need to be to the artillery?? Does it need to be in the same group of ground object? 2- Where can we get the range of the artillery units included in the game? Doesn't seem to be in the encyclopedia.
christopher m Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 SAU_Bereg_Attack mission with EWR, "Save the Ships" I made a mission from one of the su-25 default missions into a SAU_Bereg Attack with EWR in the equation. There is also SAU_Msta and enemy air defence in the equation, NO fighters they got busy somewhere else. It's fun to go after the BIG GUNS on the coast and try to get them before they get your ships. su-25 is a natural born GUN destroyer. Try it and see if you like it. Best Regards, [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Christopher M
tflash Posted April 21, 2006 Author Posted April 21, 2006 I want discuss if an ewr station can or can´t detect gropunt-sea targets, BUT, I have downloaded the missions and watch them, in most of them there is something "strange": EWR acts exactly as you say BUT, haven´t anybody noticed that the targets being detected by the ewr stations shouldnñ´t be detected since they should be protected by terrain masking? in most of the missions, the "targets are behing a hill , the ewr or any other ground based radar should not detect them in that conditions, am I wrong? Well, I'm not sure about that either. It seems indeed the EWR can see more than it should. I now use it to my advantage to buold the missions, but of course it could be "fixed" in a next patch :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
tflash Posted April 21, 2006 Author Posted April 21, 2006 I made a mission from one of the su-25 default missions into a SAU_Bereg Attack with EWR in the equation. There is also SAU_Msta and enemy air defence in the equation, NO fighters they got busy somewhere else. It's fun to go after the BIG GUNS on the coast and try to get them before they get your ships. su-25 is a natural born GUN destroyer. Try it and see if you like it. Best Regards, Yes, this is a nice one, thanks! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
christopher m Posted April 22, 2006 Posted April 22, 2006 EWR and Artillery tflash, The Idea was your's, So the credit goes to you. I was wondering how this Idea would mix with LMR missions. I recently DL some missions from Ruggbutt in LO_ru Missions forum. They are LMR missions and they are great fun, all you have to do is insert Flights and Vehicles with specific start times and LMR randomizes them automaticly, "push of a button", Some Flights and Vehicles appear and some don't, and start times for specified Flights and Vehicles get randomized every time you recycle the missions. It's very cool.... Best Regards, [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Christopher M
tflash Posted April 22, 2006 Author Posted April 22, 2006 I will sure look into LMR, and I am now trying to assess Awacs - artillery coordination. In the meantime, I made a mission with christophers' suggestion to use big coastal artillery in mind: "The Guns of Balaklava". Try to disable as much of the artillery as possible, before it starts to engage the Kuznetsov. I'll upload it to Lockonfiles also.The_Guns_Of_Balaklava.zip [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Shepski Posted April 22, 2006 Posted April 22, 2006 Cool mission Chris! I tried it in Black Shark beta and added a helipad/FARP in the valley to the east by the big lake and did the mission in the Ka-50. I was able to knock out the Strela on the west hill and then the EWR with Vikhrs and then move in on the AAA and artillery. What you will find in Black Shark compared to Flaming Cliffs is the Msta's will engage you with their top mounted machine guns so you can't get too close. After killing everything I headed out to sea and landed on the Neustrashimy and shut down. Lots to look forward to in Black Shark guys!
tflash Posted April 23, 2006 Author Posted April 23, 2006 Cool mission Chris! I tried it in Black Shark beta and added a helipad/FARP in the valley to the east by the big lake and did the mission in the Ka-50. I was able to knock out the Strela on the west hill and then the EWR with Vikhrs and then move in on the AAA and artillery. What you will find in Black Shark compared to Flaming Cliffs is the Msta's will engage you with their top mounted machine guns so you can't get too close. After killing everything I headed out to sea and landed on the Neustrashimy and shut down. Lots to look forward to in Black Shark guys! Exactly what I was hoping for BS would bring to the game. Fantastic! This kind of integration will show the developers continuous efforts offer real rewards! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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