rrohde Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Just wondering if there's a Topgun type of mod that allows dogfighting online while avoiding the frustration of getting shut down. The idea is to do mock-combat that focuses on tactics and engagement, rather than falling out of the sky - just like Topgun training would. For that to work, a mod has to exist that replaces the bullets and missiles with sensors that would tell the shooter and the "victim" whether the simulated shot was a hit or miss. Needless to say, all cockpit indications for the shooter would have to work (e.g. "got tone"), and all the warnings for the "victim" as well. So, is there anything out there like this for DCS? 1 PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com
Flagrum Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 You could enable the "immortal" option under Options->Gameplay ...
smnwrx Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) A simulated dogfight in a simulation! Haha. The better idea would be to create a server with air starts near the action. In reality top gun style dog fights are usually pre set up with the objective to teach rather then to see "who's better". After a few "knock it offs" and resets everyone would get together a debrief shots, weapon peramiters and proper defensive actions. While this sounds like a blast in real life, i don't think it would be much fun in a simulator. Edited February 8, 2015 by smnwrx
Slippery Pete Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Look for the key command for respawning or resurrection, which ever it's called, this with a mission with air starts, would allow you and someone else to continually dogfight over and over again.
SDsc0rch Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 immortal and unlimited weps i7-4790K | Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkI | 16Gb DDR3 | EVGA GTX 980 | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswind | Panasonic TC-58AX800U [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Mr_Burns Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Top Gun.....get your homoerotic thrills elsewhere buddy!! (I am being facetious, I love that film and I wish I was a fast jet jockey, as I am not, I stimulate, or should than be, simulate).
PFunk1606688187 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 While this sounds like a blast in real life, i don't think it would be much fun in a simulator. I think thats all down to who we're talking about. Some people enjoy practicing to get better at things and frankly learning with others in a very productive way, especially if you know each other, is a helluva lot more entertaining and gratifying to me than your typical online server environment where teamwork can be frustratingly elusive. I mean really, we're talking about the equivalent to thrashing around by yourself in a big room on an electric guitar with a dozen other people thrashing away to different tunes versus sitting in a room with 2 or 3 other people and learning to jam together. For some reason in gaming, even serious simming, the notion of focused and objective based practice is often viewed as undesirable while in almost anything else, even recreational activities like sports, its automatically viewed as, if not personally gratifying, at least legitimate. I find that interesting. Note this is not a commentary on how everyone is a nub and should lrn2play. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.
Dauntless Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Taka, Taka, Taka, Taka... :pilotfly: Edited February 8, 2015 by Dauntless
Exorcet Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I've thought the same, I think this idea has actually been suggested a few times before. It would be nice to see it implemented. Military aviation isn't limited to blowing things up. An option like this would also give the training weapons (currently only on the A-10C) more use. It will definitely fit well with Nevada. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files
Bimbac Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Well, this is exactly what we do. http://youtu.be/sWlA_AqxfxM Sorry, the text in the clip is in Czech language, because I was too lazy to translate it.
GGTharos Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Works quite well for proper training. While this sounds like a blast in real life, i don't think it would be much fun in a simulator. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 You can set up immortal and unlimited weapons to do as many set-ups as you like. You can use the weapons and see if they hit. If not, you can use the A-10C's training weapons, and then review the tacview to see if you were in parameters. I've thought the same, I think this idea has actually been suggested a few times before. It would be nice to see it implemented. Military aviation isn't limited to blowing things up. An option like this would also give the training weapons (currently only on the A-10C) more use. It will definitely fit well with Nevada. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Bimbac Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 You can set up immortal and unlimited weapons to do as many set-ups as you like. You can use the weapons and see if they hit. If not, you can use the A-10C's training weapons, and then review the tacview to see if you were in parameters. Or, you can combine the immortality and live weapons with Tacview. It's the way we train - very useful for BVR training.
Frostie Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Or, you can combine the immortality and live weapons with Tacview. It's the way we train - very useful for BVR training. I'd rather get shot down in training, not only do you learn faster but it also expands the training to practicing unbalanced situations, pretty much how it pans out when not training. This way you're also learning how to use the advantages given to you effectively or you're learning how to turn the tables on a bad situation. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
Bimbac Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Indeed, but unless you start in the air, doing as you suggested would waste a lot of time, not mentioning testing nothing else but the damage model and effectiveness of the missiles' warheads. We usually combine both approaches, but being immortal with a thorough debriefing could be better sometimes. Anyway, I don't dismiss your opinion.
rrohde Posted February 10, 2015 Author Posted February 10, 2015 Top Gun.....get your homoerotic thrills elsewhere buddy!! (I am being facetious, I love that film and I wish I was a fast jet jockey, as I am not, I stimulate, or should than be, simulate). That's why I spelled it "Topgun" -- like the real Fighter Weapons School, and not "Top Gun", like the movie. :) PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com
rrohde Posted February 10, 2015 Author Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Thanks for all your thoughtful input on this. I would definitely frequent a server that would allow such "Topgun-style" training, including air starts. I just wish that there was a mod out there that would allow for "laser-tag" type of engagements to take the guesswork out of "have it hit" or "have I been hit", once again without having to restart after being shot down. I can imagine endless CCM engagements with real human players refining, learning, and teaching BFM. :) Edited February 10, 2015 by rrohde PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com
rrohde Posted February 10, 2015 Author Posted February 10, 2015 Well, this is exactly what we do. http://youtu.be/sWlA_AqxfxM Sorry, the text in the clip is in Czech language, because I was too lazy to translate it. Could you elaborate a bit on how this is all set up when you guys train? PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com
GGTharos Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 It's called immortal and unlimited weapons. :) I just wish that there was a mod out there that would allow for "laser-tag" type of engagements to take the guesswork out of "have it hit" or "have I been hit", once again without having to restart after being shot down. I can imagine endless CCM engagements with real human players refining, learning, and teaching BFM. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
rrohde Posted February 10, 2015 Author Posted February 10, 2015 It's called immortal and unlimited weapons. :) Never seen that on any online DCS server, though. :) PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com
GGTharos Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 And you're not going to. Run your own server if you want that :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Buckeye Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Never seen that on any online DCS server, though. :) Just fly in the Gun N Roses server...it has in air spawns. If you get gunned down, you're right back in the action right away. Rig: SimLab P1X Chassis | Tianhang Base PRO + Tianhang F-16 Grip w/ OTTO Buttons | Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + OTTO switches and buttons | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper Tactile: G-Belt | 2x BK LFE + 1x BK Concert | 2x TST-429 | 1x BST-300EX | 2x BST-1 | 6x 40W Exciters | 2x NX3000D | 2x EPQ304 PC/VR: Somnium VR1 Visionary | 4090 | 12700K
rrohde Posted February 10, 2015 Author Posted February 10, 2015 Just fly in the Gun N Roses server...it has in air spawns. If you get gunned down, you're right back in the action right away. Going to check that one out... thanks. PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com
Bimbac Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Could you elaborate a bit on how this is all set up when you guys train? The information about our ways of training is on the "need-to-know" basis, which means that you would have to train with us. I can say that we have some ex-military fighter pilots and some active duty personnel among us, therefore we use some real Air Force know-how. Despite some real problems and limitations, DCS World can be used as a very efficient training tool, combined with some key add-ons, like TacView and LotATC. We usually start our training fights in the air, because it saves a lot of time and when the engagement is over, we can start a fresh without any delays. In basic BVR training, it's better to use (as GGTharos said) Immortal and Unlimited Weapons, just to understand the tactics and mechanisms involved, hits are evaluated later. When our trainees go past this, we always use live ammo and "one life" to implement the psychological stress from "real" combat. If you like to elaborate this a little further, please let me know.
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