debolestis Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Hello from Croatia! This is my first post on this forum. Recently I bought Talon stick and SFS throttle on eBay and I want to restore and mod them. I don't know if anybody is still using this HOTAS, but it is my favorite. I saw it 20 years ago in a PC magazine and I had wanted it since then. I could buy warthog but I just don't want to. Anyway, my plan is to post everything that I do with this HOTAS here on forum. If you have any suggestions, please don't hesitate to tell. Thank you! :joystick: - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted February 9, 2015 Author Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) My idea was to use BU0836A-NC 12-Bit Joystick Controller with no connectors. It is cheaper and I wanted it without USB connector, I wanted to use pins. Also my idea was to use dupont connectors when possible, because joystick would be disassembled many times before finished. It makes things easier. Then I rewired pcb in stick, diodes everywhere, painful process. I used 3 bottom rows in matrix, total of 9 wires. There is possibility to add 5 more switches in future if necessary. Then I put everything together again. 4 holes were drilled, I want to use 4 toggle (on-off-on) switches that will be paired with 4 dual color LEDs. I'll reuse bottom PCB, I need it for original switches. Edited July 10, 2017 by debolestis - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted February 9, 2015 Author Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Now I have a few questions. 1 - Castle Switch 2 - Trim Switch 3 - Auto Acquisition Switch 4 - Paddle Switch 5 - Nose wheel Steering Button 6 - Gun Trigger 7 - Weapon Release Button Real castle (1) and trim (2) switch can be pressed down as well. I cannot do it on original PCB. I found these switches on eBay: Are these any good? Did anybody try them? Auto acquisition switch (3) can be tipped forward and aft, at the moment it only can be pressed down. Is there such a 3 way switch? I haven't found it on eBay. I could maybe use an encoder with integrated push button. Gun Trigger is two stage, any ideas how to mod it? Edited July 10, 2017 by debolestis - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
Sokol1_br Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Auto acquisition switch (3) can be tipped forward and aft, at the moment it only can be pressed down. I modify one these adding two small micro-switch: Mini-joystick + button (PS3 style) replace HAT. Gun Trigger is two stage, any ideas how to mod it? Just add one more switch inside the trigger, see this example: http://snomhf.exofire.net/dualTrigger.html Cougar/Warthog, X-52 work in the same way. Edited July 12, 2019 by Sokol1_br
Beerhunter Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Not the cheapest way for a second life of your Suncom SFS hotas, but definitively the easiest! http://realsimulator.com/html/fusba.html Cheers Beer [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:drink:: A barrel roll is unloading the beer for a hangar party! :beer::
debolestis Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I didn't have much time last two days but I made a few changes. Talon is again dissasembled. I add 4 toggle switches, but I could only buy on-on, so I ordered on-off-on toggles on line, but I can work with what I have for now. Also, only problem that I have with this stick is a stiff spring, it takes to much force to move the stick. It takes about 4kg of force to flatten it, wire is 3mm tick. I'll ask arround and try to make a few new springs. Did anybody try this? And one more thing. The SFS trottle that I have has broken pinky switch. If anybody has a spare one and is willing to sell it to me, please send me a message. Thank you! Edited July 10, 2017 by debolestis - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 I modify one these adding two small micro-switch: http://postimg.org/image/tpwqhkmuz/ Thank you for reply. I understand, but what I want to know: is there a 3 way switch that has integrated momentary toggle and push switch? All in one solution. 1 - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 Not the cheapest way for a second life of your Suncom SFS hotas, but definitively the easiest! http://realsimulator.com/html/fusba.html Cheers Beer I saw this solution and it is great but honestly I don't understang how original electronics work. Leo Bodnar's boards I understand perfectly and I want to be able to mod throttle and stick, not just restore it. - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
Deadman Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Check Sim HQ if you have not all ready there are several Suncom rebuild there https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Sokol1_br Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Thank you for reply. I understand, but what I want to know: is there a 3 way switch that has integrated momentary toggle and push switch? All in one solution. If has space to fit you can use one of these directional (4 way) with press button that you linked above, wiring only 2 directions and the press button, or removing the other two micro switchs. Or even wiring the 4 directions "quod abundat non nocere". :thumbup: http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/debolestis/alps2_zps80af88ec.jpg This one is minimalist, has 4 directions and central push: http://www.rlx.sk/en/joystick-keyboard-switch/3031-alps-skqu-4-direction-joystick-w-switch-ef-07025-skqucaa010.html Look at DoCFlyer pot to HALL sensor conversion - the "swinging" gimbal used in Suncom stick requires unconventional solutions. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3108311/Suncom_F_15_100_SOLUTION_Hall_.html Notice the trick to reassembly the coil - tied then down. IMO - You are on the right way, in the end can have a joystick better than the original plus USB adapter. ;) Edited February 12, 2015 by Sokol1_br
debolestis Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) I continued work on switches. It is a mess inside, but I'll make proper PCBs in future, this i just for testing. I also started to convert pots to hall sensors. I didn't make metal parts yet. Edited July 10, 2017 by debolestis - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 If has space to fit you can use one of these directional (4 way) with press button that you linked above, wiring only 2 directions and the press button, or removing the other two micro switchs. Or even wiring the 4 directions "quod abundat non nocere". :thumbup: http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/debolestis/alps2_zps80af88ec.jpg I also thought same thing, I don't know if it's going to fit, we'll see. - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
Postal2 Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Hello nice work !!!! i have already change 2 Grip and throttle !!! One with Bu ,and one with BUX and my last mod (the most realistic) with the electronic's of warthog and hall effet 3D not gimbal or mod ! I have a lot of pics if you want ! Great mod ! good job ! . [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] == http://www.3rd-wing.net == Extremmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
debolestis Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 Look at DoCFlyer pot to HALL sensor conversion - the "swinging" gimbal used in Suncom stick requires unconventional solutions. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3108311/Suncom_F_15_100_SOLUTION_Hall_.html It is not said which sensor to use. I have A1302, is it OK? - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 Hello nice work !!!! i have already change 2 Grip and throttle !!! One with Bu ,and one with BUX and my last mod (the most realistic) with the electronic's of warthog and hall effet 3D not gimbal or mod ! I have a lot of pics if you want ! Great mod ! good job ! . Can you tell me more about "hall effet 3D not gimbal or mod", and many pictures please. Thank you! - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
hannibal Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 i have done this mod. this joystick is not the most ergonomic.. hopefully you wont have wrist strain using this controller for extended periods of time. i used a circuit board from a ch yoke and retained most of the switches and pots of the original sun com find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
Sokol1_br Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 It is not said which sensor to use. I have A1302, is it OK? DocFlyer use the Alegro 1321-EUA-T. I use the Honeywell SS495A1. The above models are more sensitive (than A1302), what make more easy to use. A1302 - 1,3 mV/G A1301 - 2,5 mV/G A1322 - 3,125 mV/G A1321 - 5,0 mV/G SS495A1 - 3.125mV/G But since is easy replace the sensor, test with 1302. Notice the big angle movement that A1302 need for varies from 0 to 5 v: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3226896/1
Sokol1_br Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Can you tell me more about "hall effet 3D not gimbal or mod", and many pictures please. Thank you! Yes, pictures, many pictures (I have 4 or 5 these sticks laying around). :thumbup:
debolestis Posted February 15, 2015 Author Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) I ordered new sensors, SS495A, basically same as SS495A1, just a little less sensitive, but half the price. It is such a shame that this joystick isn't produced any more, so simple design. Maybe we should start open source project to revive it. Maybe 3D printed or CNC metal parts, new PCB design etc. Just an a idea, what do you think? I can use Sketchup and Blender, so I started to work on gimbal. I tried to copy it as precise as possible, maybe it will be useful one day. Edited July 10, 2017 by debolestis - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted March 17, 2015 Author Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Hello again. I didn't work on this lately, it was a flu season and I was very busy. I was waiting for parts to arrive. I am still waiting for 5way switches. I started to work on sensors. It works but it's not the best solution, it still needs some tweaking. I tried to find sliding hall sensors and I found only THIS, but I don't know where to buy them. I also found a company here in Croatia that makes springs. Original spring wire is 3mm thick and very stiff, and I ordered 1,5mm springs, but those are to weak. When I put together 2 or 3 springs that feels better. This also need more tweaking. Edited July 10, 2017 by debolestis - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted March 21, 2015 Author Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I started to make new PCBs for switches. I changed toggle switches they are now on-ff-on Edited July 10, 2017 by debolestis - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
debolestis Posted March 26, 2015 Author Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) I continued work on toggle switches but I think it was a bad idea. It just makes things too complicated, too many wires everywhere, and there is limited space inside. I'll leave it for now and decide later. Also 5way switches arrived, but they are so tiny, I have no idea what to do with them. I think these are same switches that Leo Bodnar uses on this: I'll probably do something similar, Any Ideas? Edited July 10, 2017 by debolestis - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
Sierra99 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Sway switches Also 5way switches arrived, but they are so tiny, I have no idea what to do with them. i could see those being used 3 places.. Trim switch... Castle switch... Thumb switch on side of stick. All three need a "Z" axis (press in) will they fit the space allowed for the thumb switch? I know there is plenty of room in the head of the stick. Where did you get them if you don't mind me asking? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.
debolestis Posted March 26, 2015 Author Posted March 26, 2015 i could see those being used 3 places.. Trim switch... Castle switch... Thumb switch on side of stick. All three need a "Z" axis (press in) will they fit the space allowed for the thumb switch? I know there is plenty of room in the head of the stick. Where did you get them if you don't mind me asking? That is my plan, all have "Z" press. They will fit, but are very small. I bought them on eBay. Link There is similar model that will also fit but is a little bigger Link - Debolestis' Shapeways store - Debolestis' Facebook page - Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods - Cougar replacement gimbal
LtFransky Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 so tiny, I have no idea what to do Any Ideas? That's what she said :) Ours is not to reason why, but rather to do and die. A man walks into a zoo. The only animal in the entire zoo is a dog. It's a shitzu
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