Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods

[Brewnix]

Hey Sokol1 that is cool i have a Suncom grip i wanted rehab in to a USB.. That's a nice find thanks for sharing..EDIT- I found project link and PCB GBL file for download.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Brewnix

[Sokol1_br]

This PCB option is good if you want attach the grip in Warthog or VKB bases as use the same circuit (Shift Register) type.

[Postal2]

hello, just amazing !!!! very nice work !!!

 

My hotas mod with talon is not good setting (curves or else ) hard for formation !

 

talon on base to WARThog (with electronics to cougar^^ )

[debolestis]

BTW, Talon and Eagle version of F15 stick already have 16 bit shift register on original board. I am not sure if they are going to work with mmjoy2. I wrote something here and author confirmed that.

 

http://theseger.com/projects/2014/04/converting-old-joysticks/

 

My post is near the end of the page.

[Sokol1_br]

Mega-MOZG pick one these F-15 (above linked topic), maybe he "deciphers" the original Shift Register.

 

I have four Suncom, none have Shift Register but diode matrix, think that are from last batches, when they try all to lower production costs - eg. that big red "lamp" in place of HAT.

 

The Sergeype new PCB is good that add more buttons and replace the flimsy original HAT 's.

 

By lack of another option a local forum colleague will try make a new gimbal for his Suncom, based on MegaMOZG one - inspired by UberNXT springs arrangement.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/3690-mehanika-rus-ot-megamozg/page-1

 

If work well, a good candidate for 3D printed version. :)

Edited August 26, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Sergey_Pe]

Hello everyone,

Here is the final version of the PCB that Sokol1 has shared with you earlier in this thread. I've removed the diodes from the right hat ministick which will be used as a 4-way trim switch. This switch was also rotated clockwise to the angle of 15 degrees (as in the real plane). The ministick in the middle can still be configured as a traditional 8-direction hat with POV switch function. I've also done some cleanup of the diodes' and resistors' positions to make the soldering easier. After testing the prototype I'll inform you if any errors have found their way to the layout (hopefully not:)).

SuncomF15_ALPS_RKJXL.zip

Edited August 27, 2016 by Sergey_Pe

[uscstaylor]

I have both the stick and the throttle and Id love to have it converted to USB anybody do this on the side. I just don't have the time to do it, much to busy in real life stuff. Id gladly pay someone....

[Sokol1_br]

SFS throttle conversion is very easy, no work inside grips is need. Basically fit a new USB controller and add a 3rd wire for potentiometer's.

 

Stick require more work - and principally a new gimbal.

 

The Suncon "Saturn Ring" oscillatory gimbal kinematics prevents use HALL, magnet resistor sensors... at least without confection of new mechanics parts, maybe a "balance lever".

[debolestis]

Hello everybody! I am back to this, it was busy summer, but now it is over and I have more time to work on my projects.

 

I wanted to make a few modifications on my SFS throttle. I didn't like diode matrix and bunch of wires inside. I decided to switch to shift registers, it is more elegant solution. For that reason I made this shield.

 

 

It is modular design. On the left goes Leonardo ProMicro, i the middle amplifier for thumb-stick and on the right 8 bit shift register board that will be daisy chained with shift register from right grip.

 

First of all I wanted to see if amplifier is working. I made it in June but i tested it today. I didn't want to disassemble my throttle so I did it like this:

 

 

 

It is messy but it will be much cleaner soon.

 

Amplifier works!!! It is great news, because now PS3 thumbstick will be usable. Without amplifier it has very low resolution. On 10 bits maybe 17-18 points for each axis. It is a bit better when over sampled 14 bits but still not so good. I also don't have full range of mechanical motion due to construction right grip.

 

With amplifier I got around 100 points on 10 bits, and when over sampled it worked well. I will tweak it more, I made voltage measurements and I'll make a few simulations in LT Spice and try to get even better range.

 

You can see how it worked when calibrated in MMjoy2.

 

 

Here is schematics. If somebody has any better Idea please say it.

 

PCB can be bought HERE.

Edited July 13, 2017 by debolestis

[Sokol1_br]

Debolesis,

 

You can test a analog mini-stick, to see how look in Joytester?

[debolestis]

Yes

[debolestis]

I made a few modifications on amplifier board. I increased amplification by changing R4 and R7 from 220K to 1M. Now it works so much better. There is almost no difference between 10 and 14 bits, it looks identical in JoyTester.

 

 

I updated PCB design on OSH park, there were a few errors on previous design.

 

 

It can be bought HERE.

Save

Edited July 13, 2017 by debolestis

[Neurowork]

Hey,

I'm making a similar project to replace the Warthog TDC ministick. I got the PS3 stick but I wasn't able to find any datasheet.

I have made a small breakout board for the stick. I hope it turns out fine.

 

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/hn77gybC

 

What input voltage are you using ?

 

Thanks

Edited November 6, 2016 by Neurowork
fixed link

[debolestis]

Voltage is 5V from USB. There is no datasheet but it is connected same as potentiometer. Amplifier is necesary because resolution is very low without it.

[Sokol1_br]

How ab out this "guy" - see the video:

 

https://www.adafruit.com/products/2765

[hydrawind]

great！that was incredible

[debolestis]

I made new modifications on my throttle.

 

I decided to switch to shift registers instead of button matrix. In the end it works the same but now wiring is much cleaner. It is also joy to work with shift registers, it is straight forward, I simply wired switches to appropriate pads on PCB, no more diodes and having that crazy schematics in my head all the time. There are much less wires that are going from grips to base. Before there were 13 wires from right grip to base, now it is 7, 5 for SR and 2 for axes for thumbstick.

 

This is the end result:

 

 

 

I designed shield for Leonardo pro micro, amplifier and one Shift register. I can explain how it works if somebody is interested, but I think most of people will figure it out on their own. It can be ordered HERE.

 

 

I removed Dowty locking switches and replaced them with Honeywell's momentary toggles.

 

There is one new problem now. There is not enough space inside grips and SR PCBs take space. I had to remove a lock from right grip. Now I need to figure out how to 3D print a new one that will fit. I also replaced 4way switch with new 3D printed. It has spring like in Warthog and now it feels much better.

 

Now I have to explore beautiful world of super tiny SMD components that I'll use in my new SR designs. SMD components are smaller and PCBs will also be smaller. That will be handy for future projects as well.

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by debolestis

[Sergey_Pe]

I've finally got some update on Talon grip mod. The main board (2x CD4021 shift registers) was assembled as well as the thumbsick 3-way hat board (ALPS 4-way switch wired to register fore-aft and down movements only). Then I've mounted the thumbstick using some hot-melt glue. The original Suncom thumbstick shaft is made of a very good plastic which is unlikely to crack so I've just shortened it and made a 2 mm hole to press-fit it on ALPS shaft. I've also used a small file to extend the holes in the grip body halves to restrict the thumbstick shaft movement to fore-aft directions only. As it turned out with a relatively long shaft the hat movement is a bit "light", so I've made a kind of gasket out of a piece of rubber foam and placed it around the shaft to add some resistance. Here is the result so far; the top hats will follow.

[debolestis]

Great work Sergey, I love how PCB is integrated into grip design. Minimal wiring, very clean. Too bad I made modifications inside grip, now I cannot do the same as you.

[BusterBust]

Awesome job Sergey, im very interested on what you have going on there as i have a Suncom Eagle Talon stick that i would like to update and convert to usb. Any chance you could share the PCB design for any of us that may want to get it made for our sticks?

 

I also have the SFS and was wanting to also update and convert to usb as as well....so debolestis, i will be asking for some help as i am a caveman when it comes this kind of electronics...after reading all the different ways people have moded their stick and throttle im totally confused as to what wire connects where and so on.

[debolestis]

Awesome job Sergey, im very interested on what you have going on there as i have a Suncom Eagle Talon stick that i would like to update and convert to usb. Any chance you could share the PCB design for any of us that may want to get it made for our sticks?

 

I also have the SFS and was wanting to also update and convert to usb as as well....so debolestis, i will be asking for some help as i am a caveman when it comes this kind of electronics...after reading all the different ways people have moded their stick and throttle im totally confused as to what wire connects where and so on.

 

We'll help, don't worry.

[Haukka81]

I have eagle talon also, im not very good to soldering small componets so i would like to pay to get ready made pcb for inside stick. I have arduino pro Micro board and mmjoy installed in it but now i just like to get all done without diodes etc :)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sergey_Pe]

Here is the layout file made in Sprint Layout format. It includes the main board, two boards for the top hat switches and another one for the thumbstick hat switch.

ALPS 8-way RKJXL switches are used for the hats with fore-aft-up-down-top press directions wired. 8 additional diodes on the circular boards are needed if you want to wire one of the top switches (or both) to work as a traditional hat (to register up-left, up-right, down-left and double-right movements). Shift registers are CD4021 in SOIC package, all the resistors are 10 kOhm, capacitors are 0.1 mF, connectors are JST PH (2 mm pitch). All passive SMD components are in 1206 packages.

Thumbstick hat board needs to be trimmed a bit as well as the grip halves to fit properly; it can be done with a small file.

Top hat switches will be mounted on the top cover separately from the main board as they have to be as close to the hat caps as possible to provide realistic travel. I'll provide the pictures as soon as the hats are mounted (hopefully next weekend).

SuncomF15_V2.zip

Edited November 16, 2016 by Sergey_Pe

[Sokol1_br]

I also have the SFS and was wanting to also update and convert to usb as as well....so debolestis, i will be asking for some help as i am a caveman when it comes this kind of electronics...after reading all the different ways people have moded their stick and throttle im totally confused as to what wire connects where and so on.

 

Suncom SFS throttle can be "USB'erised" without any modify in grips wiring, since the plugs coming from grip to base is 8x3 and 4x1 matrix with diodes already installed.

 

In 4x1 plug can be added a extra wire for make left side switch (momentary 2 positions) in the left grip press 2 buttons, actually this switch press the same button (#20) in back and forth positions.

 

Just remove circuit boards in base, fit the new USB controller, wire axis and make plugs (can use 40 pint 2.54 pitch connectors bar for this) for match the grip plugs for buttons, respecting their matrix scheme.

 

For example, using Arduino PRO Micro MMjoy2 (similar for BU0836, DSD):

 

 

For extended modifications, e.g. add micro-stick as "TDC", replace switches... became interesting remove all "guts" and start wiring from 0 (like Debolestis did lately).

Edited November 16, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[debolestis]

I can donate my old shield pcb. It would be easy to connect matrix, axes and pro micro to it. You can see it a few posts back. It is CNC made PCB. If somebody is interested send me a PM.