nullsys Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi all, So I'm trying out the Sabre, and there is an accidental maneuver which is more prominent than I've seen before. Can someone watch the video and explain what is happening, how I can avoid it and such. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injerin Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Do you have tanks on? Looks like your pulling a bit too hard into the turn, causing the aircraft to shudder. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullsys Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 Do you have tanks on? Looks like your pulling a bit too hard into the turn, causing the aircraft to shudder. No tanks, nothing onboard. Pulling back and left. Each time it causes the immediate turn and flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opps Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Watch G meter. You exceeded 10G. Pulling TOO hard caused problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Hrothgar Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 You stalled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanami314 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G7FY0og60k this film more or less covers how the f86 handles. so pay attention. (f2j is basicy the navy veron of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 No tanks, nothing onboard. Pulling back and left. Each time it causes the immediate turn and flip. Also, you may want to mess with your joystick curves to see what works best for you. I had my pitch set to 32 but that didn't work at all for me as I didn't have enough control when the plane was at the edge of stalling. Now I use a curve of 20 and I have a lot more control at the edge. In other words I have more stick to use when I feel it start to shake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullsys Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 Also, you may want to mess with your joystick curves to see what works best for you. I had my pitch set to 32 but that didn't work at all for me as I didn't have enough control when the plane was at the edge of stalling. Now I use a curve of 20 and I have a lot more control at the edge. In other words I have more stick to use when I feel it start to shake. Thanks! It was absolutely a curves problem. I too lowered my curves and it felt much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paidapinga Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Can someone watch the video and explain what is happening, how I can avoid it and such. Thank you! this is a bug, I read old post here in the forum F-15C has the same problem wait 1 or 2 years to be corrected ,things move slowly here :) Edited February 14, 2015 by paidapinga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacEwan Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 That's not a bug. That happens when you exceed your max AOA and/or max G limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paidapinga Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 That's not a bug. That happens when you exceed your max AOA and/or max G limit. negative! ! ! this is a bug is an old bug already published Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacEwan Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Do you have a source for where this was stated to be a bug in the F-86 and the F-15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Can you show us the post or publication you refer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paidapinga Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Do you have a source for where this was stated to be a bug in the F-86 and the F-15? sorry but I do not have the old publication , but I'm already waiting for this patch a few months ago Edited February 14, 2015 by paidapinga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacEwan Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Well, watching the OPs video, the aircraft departs after the pilot violently pushes to 10Gs. This appears to correct behaviour for the sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paidapinga Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Well, watching the OPs video, the aircraft departs after the pilot violently pushes to 10Gs. This appears to correct behaviour for the sim. I will try to find this publication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paidapinga Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 sorry could not find , has more bugs Reported that number of stars in the sky, I am unable to find alone , I need several hours available to find. I will save a this link in my favorites when I find the old post , I will send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Well, watching the OPs video, the aircraft departs after the pilot violently pushes to 10Gs. This appears to correct behaviour for the sim. It is incorrect behavior for the aircraft. G reading had nothing to do with it, it's all about AoA in a certain flight regime. Real aircraft flat out don't behave like this. Edited February 15, 2015 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 It is incorrect behavior for the aircraft. G leading had nothing to do with it, it's all about AoA in a certain slotted regime. Real aircraft flat out don't behave like this. Can you explain? What I see in the video is asymmetric stall, exactly what I would expect from the stick input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dartuil Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I have the same problem so I stop playing the F-86. i7 2600k -- Noctua NH-D14--Asrock Z75 Pro3--ASUS GTX970 Strix --16Go Ripjaws X 1333--Thermaltake Smart M650--CoolerMaster Silencio 652S--AOC E2752VQ-- Sandisk Extreme II 480GB--Saitek X-52 Pro --SAITEK PZ35 Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'd expect things from AoA, not stick input (although AoA is created by stick and rudder input, but different speeds give you different results for the same amount of pull - thus AoA is the important yard-stick over-all, buft for practical reasons a pilot might be interested in bank vs stall speed charts at least when landing) If you want to see aircraft do this sort of thing, you have to fly them un-coordinated, possibly very un-coordinated: Coordinated flight should just enter the wing-rocking mode before 'bumping off', but eh, I'm no expert. Can you explain? What I see in the video is asymmetric stall, exactly what I would expect from the stick input. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Difficult to say. On one hand, I would expect the stall to be a bit more symmetric. It's not a prop plane, and if You look at the turn&bank indicator, there was no slip/skid when it happened. On the other hand, the ever-popular manual of F-86F states as follows: "On airplanes without slats, stall characteristics are definitely inferior because of an abrupt yaw and roll occuring at the stall point" (section 6-2 "Flight Characteristics"). Whether stall roll in our Sabre is "abrupt enough" or "not abrupt enough" is probably impossible to estimate correctly. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Difficult to say. On one hand, I would expect the stall to be a bit more symmetric. It's not a prop plane, and if You look at the turn&bank indicator, there was no slip/skid when it happened. Keep watching for when he does do it uncoordinated. On the other hand, the ever-popular manual of F-86F states as follows: "On airplanes without slats, stall characteristics are definitely inferior because of an abrupt yaw and roll occuring at the stall point" (section 6-2 "Flight Characteristics").Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The real meat and potatoes here is coordinated flight: Low or no beta means a benign stall, anything more should look like what's in the OP's video. It didn't look like he was flying particularly un-coordinated, but I could be wrong (I see no rudder input either). Whether stall roll in our Sabre is "abrupt enough" or "not abrupt enough" is probably impossible to estimate correctly.Sure it is. At the very least you can ask a SME, if there's one around, or just any pilots who's flown a bunch of things and has done aerobatics and stall training. Edited February 15, 2015 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacEwan Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Im definitely no expert, but the way it looks to me is the hard pull from 6G to 10G increased the AOA to a point where the plane departed. Either way it's nice to know it's already noted and is being looked into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djent33 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 “No sound” That’s what’s wrong. Swept wings and the rest of aerodynamics, work differently for each flight manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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