AAM Selection

[MBot]

With the MiG-21bis I was very impressed by the exhaustive selection of missiles provided by LNS, including historical types and sub-versions. In addition to the existing weapons in DCS (AIM-9M, AIM-9P, AIM-7M, AIM-54C), will DCS F-14 simulate the following weapons which at some point were carried by Tomcats: AIM-9G, AIM-9L, AIM-7E-4, AIM-7F and AIM-54A?

[Aginor]

I guess that is ED's decision to make, isn't it?

IIRC weapons are part of the core stuff, not the modules.

[Manuel_108]

Why would you chose the -54A over the -54C in the first place? :D

[Darkwolf]

if they is scenario with specific time frame ? (ok, that's still a dream since all servers are FreeForAll)

[GaryIKILLYOU]

Why would you chose the -54A over the -54C in the first place? :D

 

Period correct load-outs. ;)

 

This is an interesting question and something I would like to know as well. It's not 100% critical information, but would be nice to know eventually.

[MBot]

I guess that is ED's decision to make, isn't it?

IIRC weapons are part of the core stuff, not the modules.

 

LNS did make a lot of new weapons for the MiG-21 that didn't already exist in DCS (R-3S, R-3R, R-13M, R-13M1, R-60A, R-55, RS-2US). Many of those are older and less capable but great for historic scenarios. I hope they will do the same for the F-14.

 

AIM-54A for example would be the weapon to use for Iranian Tomcats (together with AIM-7E-4 and AIM-9P).

[King_Hrothgar]

They did it for the MiG-21, why wouldn't they for the F-14?

[WinterH]

Their renders seem to have untextured AIM-9 and AIM-7 models on them too, whic are likely to be done by them, and therefore quite possibly not one of the existing variants.

 

Since F-14A is one of the variants to be released too, and our past experience how LN likes to model as much weapons as realistically / reasonably possible, I really would expect them to do these missiles as well.

 

They could make for some potentially exciting early 80s / late 70s scenarios, where they can share the field with MiG-21Bis, Mirage 2000C, A-10A etc.

[captain_dalan]

This:

Period correct load-outs. ;)

 

This is an interesting question and something I would like to know as well. It's not 100% critical information, but would be nice to know eventually.

 

And also, is the current AIM-54 FM authentic? I have never heard of a sim other then "Fleet Defender" that ever did a "hard core" Tomcat, but i don't know if even that one had proper Phoenix ballistics. There were attempts to mod it properly in BMS, but the version never made it into any of the patches. SF2 does it fairly well, but it's a soft sim. Aerosoft's F-14 has a version that models the long range intercept well, but not the "dogfight" launch....

[Dudikoff]

In addition to the existing weapons in DCS (AIM-9M, AIM-9P, AIM-7M, AIM-54C), will DCS F-14 simulate the following weapons which at some point were carried by Tomcats: AIM-9G, AIM-9L, AIM-7E-4, AIM-7F and AIM-54A?

 

This is a very good point. I hope the older variants will be included at some point like for the MiG-21, although it would probably be a compromise in reality since I'd expect you'd need different production standards of the F-14A (with slightly different equipment fit).

[MBot]

This is a very good point. I hope the older variants will be included at some point like for the MiG-21, although it would probably be a compromise in reality since I'd expect you'd need different production standards of the F-14A (with slightly different equipment fit).

 

Fortunately, as far as I know the F-14A didn't change much until the 90s (at which point I no longer care :) ). Even the Iranian F-14A were delivered almost to USN standard. I think they lacked a carrier approach system and some ECCM, but even the highly secret Combat Tree IFF interrogator was installed.

 

The most obvious early upgrade was the installation of the Television Camera Sight. I am having the hope that this could be implemented as optional eqipment to be selcted in th ME, such as the Huey gunners or the Mi-8 engine filters.

[Dudikoff]

Fortunately, as far as I know the F-14A didn't change much until the 90s (at which point I no longer care :) ).

The most obvious early upgrade was the installation of the Television Camera Sight.

 

I was thinking more of the technical upgrades required for a certain weapon system. Like WCS, weapon stores management systems, etc.

 

For instance, the AIM-7M has a monopulse seeker so the CW illuminator is no longer required. I'm not sure if they were disabling these afterwards on the F-14, but for instance, if they were, then your later F-14A would not be able to use the older Sparrow variants. But, if the LN decides to model some earlier F-14A standard e.g. from before the AIM-7M was added, the older variant would technically not support that missile variant. Another example would be that apparently AIM-54A used oil-cooling, but the F-14D's didn't have this oil system so if they were to carry the A variant of the Phoenix missile, there were some speed limits imposed IIRC.

 

But these are probably nitpicks compared to the smart A/G stuff which required more visible changes (like e.g. the LANTIRN controller stick).

 

For A2A weapons, I guess it would be best to support them all and limit the availability to the mission designers (maybe even introduce weapon availability year ranges in DCS as a whole). But, it could be quite weird e.g. to have a LANTIRN capable A (with a stick and maybe upgraded PTID screen) simulating a 70s mission and carrying AIM-7Es :)

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dudikoff

[MBot]

Good points. I do not know much about the WCS. The Iranians were offered the AIM-7F (monopulse seeker) but they decided to stick with the AIM-7E, considering it to be a secondary weapon to the Phoenix. Whether that means that the jet was able to support both guidance types at the same time or that the aircraft were delivered customized I don't know.

 

If LNS will model LANTIRN (which is not yet known) I would hope that they will integrate it with the F-14B only, preserving the F-14A for older scenarios.

[Dudikoff]

Good points. I do not know much about the WCS. The Iranians were offered the AIM-7F (monopulse seeker) but they decided to stick with the AIM-7E, considering it to be a secondary weapon to the Phoenix. Whether that means that the jet was able to support both guidance types at the same time or that the aircraft were delivered customized I don't know.

 

AIM-7F introduced a conical scan seeker IIRC which still required CW illumination, the M introduced the monopulse one, but the F offered improved range over the E among other things so your point is still valid.

 

I don't know much of all the required changes as such either, these documents are probably all classified and detailed weapon information is hard to come by. IIRC from the F-15Cs discussion, when they were upgraded to use the M's, the CW illuminators were disabled? If both can be supported at the same time, then I'd expect the WCS should be updated to support the newer ones at least in a way that CW illuminator is not used when firing M's. I hope LN has access to some of these documents so we'll be able to learn more :)

 

If LNS will model LANTIRN (which is not yet known) I would hope that they will integrate it with the F-14B only, preserving the F-14A for older scenarios.

 

Yes, that would seem like the best approach to take, but I'm not sure if LN even considered the LANTIRN (LTS) or just the initial A/B Upgrade program. They could choose to do a mish-mash of sorts and support various weapons to provide the most flexible simulation experience rather than limiting themselves to a particular equipment and capabilities standard.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dudikoff

[MBot]

AIM-7F had a conical scan seeker IIRC which required CW illumination, the M introduced the monopulse one, but the F offered improved range over the E among other things so your point is still valid.

 

I stand corrected, of course you are right.

[Dudikoff]

I stand corrected, of course you are right.

 

Not really, I'm just perhaps in an earlier timezone so I had more time to refresh the knowledge following the F-14 announcement so it's still fresh :) There's so much data readily available just a few clicks away so this whole right/wrong thing is somewhat meaningless.

 

Actually, related to the AIM-7M, I remembered that the monopulse seeker could guide to both CW or pulse signal reflections so maybe they have even continued using the CW illuminator on the A's and B's and used it with the M's as well (thus the older F's could be used and perhaps no significant updates were necessary to support the M's).

 

Hopefully some documents will pop up during the development.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dudikoff