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gyro stabilizer?


razo+r
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Where is the most important thing? (for me).

 

i'm really asking me why are there modern tanks modelled without that feature?

 

i mean it would be much easier to drive and shoot with a gyro stabilized turret, that is what i miss here, can we please have this ED? or can someone make a mod?

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  • 1 month later...
Where is the most important thing? (for me).

 

i'm really asking me why are there modern tanks modelled without that feature?

 

i mean it would be much easier to drive and shoot with a gyro stabilized turret, that is what i miss here, can we please have this ED? or can someone make a mod?

 

I think we might see it somewhere in the (near) future.

It seems that when you lock on to a target The gun is stabilized but the sights arent for Some reason. The main reasons why CA isnt really interesting to do

More serieus stuff with apart from playing around with it from time to time is ballistic computers And stabilisation is not modelled. Which basicly makes any real firing on The move impossible while The ai can do it. And the fact that the ai can see trough trees And buildings and has super human reaction times. Also The current terrain is unfit for any real tank battles.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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It isn't necessarily that simple. On some tanks (I'm thinking of the Challenger II) some of the sight systems used by the gunner are mounted on the barrel block rather than the actual turret and as such elevate with the gun rather than being gyro-stabilised. I think this is correct. The end effect is that what you see through the gunners' sight may not be what the gun barrel is actually doing.

 

I'm pretty sure that the T-72 has gyro stabilisation only in elevation and that the gunner has to manually estimate lead for moving targets.

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Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm pretty sure that the T-72 has gyro stabilisation only in elevation and that the gunner has to manually estimate lead for moving targets.

 

T-72 has 2-axis stabilization using 2E28M stabilization system (T-72B has 2E42-2). And it was best of the class until Germany developed Leopard 2. Many believes that T-72 stabilization is terrible or it can't fire from move. While the stabilization works very well but it has own small protection systems like it will lock the barrel (pipe) when the vertical movement comes too radical (over 7 degrees per second), to avoid it getting damaged by hitting the hull or if it hits trees etc. http://www.kotsch88.de/stabi-2e28m.htm

 

The T-72 can fire perfectly from move as well, some people claim that its gearbox would malfunction if firing 125mm from the move, while it is simply tactical reasons to gunner command twice the firing so the driver stops the tank after first command, just to maximize that barrel doesn't lock-up if there comes sudden rough bump.

 

The T-72A received the TPD-K1 laser distance metering system that got then later to export versions of it (T-72M1 is export from T-72A, T-72M is export of T-72 Ural).

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/optical/25.htm

 

T-72 has even a automatic distance calculation by using the tracks travel. So once you meter the distance, the firing solution gets automatic distance metering from moving T-72, the system even calculates the original heading of the target so even if T-72 turns sideways or drive diagonally the distance is calculated correctly. But if the target itself is moving it logically doesn't work. And as well if T-72 tracks slips like stuck in the mud or on ice, it isn't accurate. The T-72A received 1A40 firing computer that offers dynamic lead based movement and target movement. Before T-72A the gunner was required to estimate the lead, what could be more difficult when T-72 or target was moving sideways.

 

What slowed down T-72A first shot with laser metering systems etc, was that the laser metering was not center of the crosshair, instead it was little below and much a side, so the gunner was required to aim the laser circle to the target to get the distance, then correct the aim to the position where the lead was given by firing computer. So it toke about 2-3 seconds to fire the cannon after solution. And those few seconds are long time in firefight.

 

But T-72 was first MBT to offer a "hunter-killer" feature, where tank commander could slave the cannon to direction to his periscope, but it worked only horizontally and gunner was required to adjust vertical position. It speeded up a lot the first shot capability and improved the battlefield survivability as commander could easily just override cannon heading instead telling gunner what heading etc.

 

Even with T-72 Ural the firing for moving target isn't a problem as long you get enough experience. The main problems were that when switching from AP to HE the flight path was different, making long range firing much more difficult if target moved as the HE shell flew so high. And the crosshair moved up so gunner was required to get the leading by using the bottom part of the reticle, that made it even more difficult.

 

Here is sample of T-72M1 firing behavior.

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Where is the most important thing? (for me).

 

i'm really asking me why are there modern tanks modelled without that feature?

 

i mean it would be much easier to drive and shoot with a gyro stabilized turret, that is what i miss here, can we please have this ED? or can someone make a mod?

 

 

There should be many improvements to each individual units. Like M2A1 Bradley has only vertical stabilization, inaccurate and ineffective slow cannon but with awesome thermal gunner sight.

 

But the most effective features that CA would ever need, is not the gyro stabilization to units that should have it, as we can always stop to fire or not to turn when firing.

 

The problem is the terrain. There are no obstacles like rocks, bushes etc that would make harder to find the targets. Just the trees and buildings and terrain itself.

The terrain is way too blocky (low resolution) and flat, there isn't really any kind change in heights where to get hull/tower down positions.

 

And those makes many things bad in ground combat. As soviet units that heavily use ATGM has the range benefits, as you can't really hide or get good cover, western units are in bad position to do the attacks.

There is no benefits for western MBT to benefit from capability more down than soviet ones, making hull-down positions basically more difficult.

 

It shouldn't be hard to paint even large maps like the current one with a random obstacles like individual trees, rocks, bushes. As in my opinion, I don't care if those are realistically there or not or if one tree is inside a rock etc. As the most important thing is just to get cover for ground units, for helicopters and make the CAS airplane pilots work harder to find a units on the ground, and make the air-to-ground radar in future to be worth of its money.

 

Improving the gyro on units that should have it would be improvement, but not such that it would make the CA more attractive to people. Now it is just sitting like ducks in billiard table metering distances and waiting when target gets to firing range or then get to knife fight because terrain, usually against ultimate reflex AI that blows you out on first second you come visible.

 

So I don't really know why we got the CA when the maps are all designed around aircrafts like Su-27S, F-15C, Su-25T etc. Even the KA-50 is pretty out of its class because the terrain.

 

/ end the rant ;)

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  • 9 months later...

The azimuth stabilization system keeps turret pointed in same direction relative to the earth, regardless of hull movement. The elevation stabilization system keeps gun at same elevation relative to the earth regardless of hull and turret movement. The mirror in top of Gunner's Primary Sight (GPS) is controlled by Line-Of-Sight (LOS) subsystem to stabilize scene relative to the earth. The Gun/Turret Drive (GTD)system stabilizes gun using gyros on gun and turret wall for sensors. It still needs work but at least there is progress. The stab system should keep the sight steady while the vehicle is moving no matter the speed of the vehicle.

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I really dislike this mentality.

 

Some of us want to enjoy the ground aspect of DCS.

 

Completely agree.

 

CA provides you with different pace and on several occasions on HolloPointe, coordination and swiftness of combined ground and air assaults was just amazing.

 

Further development of Combined Arms, together with its integration with aircraft modules and inclusion in carefully crafted online missions has the potential of making DCS much more involving and interesting.

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Completely agree.

 

CA provides you with different pace and on several occasions on HolloPointe, coordination and swiftness of combined ground and air assaults was just amazing.

 

Further development of Combined Arms, together with its integration with aircraft modules and inclusion in carefully crafted online missions has the potential of making DCS much more involving and interesting.

 

This weekend I created a small combined arms mission for a group of friends. The mission objective was to seize an airfield and clear insurgents from a small nearby town.

 

The mission included 3x Stryker Platoons, KA-50s, UH-1's (for recon), and A-10s.

 

This was the first time that I've played DCS Combined Arms in a multiplayer capacity - what an awesome experience! :thumbup:. I was the ground forces commander, maneuvering platoons and identifying armored vehicles and bunkers, while my buddies in the air rained steel metal on my targets.

 

There were some frustrations with AI vehicle pathfinding, but overall it was an awesome experience - further proof that we need Combined Arms developed further.

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CA is waiting "Black Sea 2" map to be released, that would have a higher height map resolution so most land wouldn't be just flat with visibility to 10km or over. And then have the trees collisions working (now a hack available) and randomly painted terrain elements from bushes to grass and rocks so there would be places to hide and use as cover.

 

Oh and naturally the improved controls and vehicle animations.

 

Driving around then would be amazing.

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