"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[Coxy_99]

For me i just dont understand why you would remove FC3 from blueflag , And if so then the su25t also needs to be removed?

 

Edit: Be interesting without a gci role also.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Coxy_99

[Frostie]

Just choppers and Combined Arms would be interesting. :D

[OperatorJack]

Just choppers and Combined Arms would be interesting. :D

 

That would be amazing really. Would need to limit the AO a fair bit though

[Coxy_99]

Could you imagine taking a chopper from Tiblsi to Mozdok then crashing or shot down just before you get there the PAIN

[Shadow_1stVFW]

In all seriousness, thank you all for the feedback.

We do read it, we do take it under consideration for next rounds.

 

There will always be disputes or disagreements, but please try to do it with constructive replies :)

 

As to removing FC3 modules from Blue Flag.

It's an option we discussed previously and might put up, as we explore many different variants, this is an option as all others.

 

Round 9 is around the corner, get ready :)

 

 

 

No worries guys we enjoy reading too when it's constructive feedback/ideas and not flaming in the threads.

 

Greg

 

Thanks, it's good to know you listen to contructive feedback. Looking forward to #9.

 

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[OperatorJack]

Could you imagine taking a chopper from Tiblsi to Mozdok then crashing or shot down just before you get there the PAIN

 

I'd fly CAP in a Huey

[RPY Variable]

I'd have to question if you even know what a simulation is.

 

Deriding FC is a typical response to being shot down by one because it's easier to blame FC than ones own incompetence. The sort of complaint of 'if that F-15 pilot had a clickable pit he wouldn't be able to kill me so easy'. This has been disproven as many good FC pilots seemlessly transfer to Mig-21, Mirage and F-5 with the same effect. This is because being proficient in a fighter is not down to how well you remember start up procedures but how well you apply yourself in combat.

 

Procedures to activate systems and start up aircraft are a case of once learned hardly ever forgotten, they are not skills that are perishable by neglect the only limit here is memory.

 

FC aircraft are well simulated in combat, some features maybe missing but these are features that only complement what already exists ie. makes them better and easier to use. Some light examples, the A-10C can create bomb profiles where as the A-10A is restricted to simple CCIP and CCRP with only guess work to help you battle the wind. With Mavericks there is no force correlate and you don't get to steady your gun aim before firing, Ka50 gets a working datalink in mp Su27 doesn't but should etc.This is what seperates full fidelity from FC in combat, it is the full fidelity aircraft which make it easier not the otherway around, in the case of combat fairness everything else is irrelevant.

 

If the F-15 and Flanker were full fidelity then MiG-21s, Mirages et al would be facing a much tougher prospect, as it is now they're getting an easy ride.

 

 

DCS vs FC clickable cockpit and start up procedure are not the only differences between both. It seems to me that you’ve never enter combat forgetting to warmup the radar, or drop bombs forgetting to activate the fuse or tactical drop switch, or making some error and misalign the INS, or enter a dogfight forgetting to switch off the gun master arm, or loosing lock just about to launch a missile, etc etc etc etc to infinity.

 

Other thing to take into account is the attitude which one enters to a fight when you had enter 3 command in the keyboard to start up the plane is totally different from having to do a SIMULATED startup procedure, which includes for example in the mirage, 7 minutes aligning and entering self-coordinates. Believe me, a DCS startup makes you take care of yourself a little more. It makes you less reckless.

 

"If the F-15 and Flanker were full fidelity then MiG-21s, Mirages et al would be facing a much tougher prospect, as it is now they're getting an easy ride" How come?! So adding more variables to a module actually makes it easier or deadlier??? Excellent reasoning qualities there.

[Bushmanni]

Giving pilot a chance to not flip some switch doesn't make a plane less effective. Going through a startup makes you less reckless only if you have unlimited lives. It still takes far more longer to reach combat than starting up the jet. Besides, attitude is something you have, not something the sim imposes on you.

 

FC3 jets are only better than the real planes in one aspect, radar scan rate (F-15 has about twice the rate of the real thing). In every other way they are "bare bones" models lacking many features that would make them more capable and also easier to use (excluding the startup). More features doesn't necessarily mean more complex usage wise. F-15 for example would have much better RWR but it wouldn't impose any more extra work on the pilot but actually make it easier to decipher the reality behind the signals shown. Radar modes would work in a more practical manner and there would be more of them to deal with some special situations. You would have more control over the weapons system if you wanted but it would still work essentially same if you didn't bother with the extra stuff.

 

Imagine a FC3 MiG-21 (no change in flight model) and then consider how much easier it would be to maneuver in firing parameters (maybe lock a target) and pull the trigger? Or change weapons that currently can be done with a single click of a HOTAS button. Then consider that M-2000C is essentially no different to use in combat than the FC3 F-15 switchology wise.

[BadHabit]

As much as I really look forward to FC3 to start fading from complex servers like BF, you have to understand the necessity of these type of platforms due to their role. It doesn't matter if it is easy to take off land and the system simplicity, fighting is fighting and it doesn't make any difference of you fly something complex or simple. Fighting and executing special missions is a very complex part of itself.

My own recomendession to reduce the "earquake" as you guy's are saying is a simple systemic logistics. Simple poot, an F-15 is a very expensive aircraft thas fewer F-15 slots but f-5 are very cheap so more and etc. You don't need thus many cap fighters in a mission. Also same goes for missiles, 120 to expensive, aim7 cheaper. Give the pilots one more headache to choose and think carefully before launching missiles and etc for all the rest. My thoughts from a guy that doesn't fly in BF cause of limited hardware.

 

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[firmek]

DCS vs FC clickable cockpit and start up procedure are not the only differences between both. It seems to me that you’ve never enter combat forgetting to warmup the radar, or drop bombs forgetting to activate the fuse or tactical drop switch, or making some error and misalign the INS, or enter a dogfight forgetting to switch off the gun master arm, or loosing lock just about to launch a missile, etc etc etc etc to infinity.

 

Other thing to take into account is the attitude which one enters to a fight when you had enter 3 command in the keyboard to start up the plane is totally different from having to do a SIMULATED startup procedure, which includes for example in the mirage, 7 minutes aligning and entering self-coordinates. Believe me, a DCS startup makes you take care of yourself a little more. It makes you less reckless.

 

"If the F-15 and Flanker were full fidelity then MiG-21s, Mirages et al would be facing a much tougher prospect, as it is now they're getting an easy ride" How come?! So adding more variables to a module actually makes it easier or deadlier??? Excellent reasoning qualities there.

+1 to above. There is another level of stress factor, complexity and possibility for mistakes that does not exists in FC aircrafts.

Additionally the "clickable cockpit" is more than just switches to flick. With fully modeled aircrafts there are systems behind that by purpose incorporate imperfectness. Quick examples can be M-2000C and MiG-21 radars which are affected by ground clutter, loose lock when target starts a deep dive. Compared to that the radar of FC3 aircrafts works like a god eye. From other perspective, assuming that one day we'll get a fully modeled F-15C with realistic systems and probably even more improved flight model (despite it's already PFM) would it be so welcomed and fair if one team gets the F-15 FC3 version while the other side full fidelity one?

DCS has come a long way since Lock On and Flaming Cliffs time.

[Coxy_99]

This is my argument IF the 15 and 27 was clciky clicky would there be a problem? Its to be honest stupid :thumbup:

[Hesgad]

This is my argument IF the 15 and 27 was clciky clicky would there be a problem? Its to be honest stupid :thumbup:

 

Kinda also taking both out would leave the Mig vs F5 and M2000C or Mig and MC vs F5 both cases would be rather meh unless you also take the MC out

[Coxy_99]

And the F-18 F-14 Im not sure why FC3 has to be taken out, My previous post already said ok F86 vs mig 15 era thats fine, But yea meh, Id like like gci taken out to really make it different :thumbup:

 

Edit: Strip it back to round one.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Coxy_99

[OperatorJack]

Kinda also taking both out would leave the Mig vs F5 and M2000C or Mig and MC vs F5 both cases would be rather meh unless you also take the MC out

 

3rd gen CAP only.

No qualms here

[Frostie]

Additionally the "clickable cockpit" is more than just switches to flick. With fully modeled aircrafts there are systems behind that by purpose incorporate imperfectness. Quick examples can be M-2000C and MiG-21 radars which are affected by ground clutter, loose lock when target starts a deep dive. Compared to that the radar of FC3 aircrafts works like a god eye.

You can't talk about the Mirage and MiG21 radars in the same context, one is 60/70s tech the other late 70s, the MIG radar has a bug with low level and besides is not a look down radar and generation behind so will suffer heavily on anything not above it. The Mirage radar has its own quirks and bugs. I like how you label these bugs as realistic while FC are not, i'm sure if the F-15 was clickable your new assumption for this would be, because the F-15 is more advanced because of the 'its full fidelity so it must be realistic right' mantra.

 

BMS doesn't suffer from ground clutter like the MIG or do F-16s lose lock on diving aircraft, but hey its fully clickable so thats all ok then, must be realistic, right.

 

Facts are, all radars including FC radars which incidently are late 80s tech suffer from the clutter notch and lose lock, comparing the capabilities of the Sapfir with an APG-63 thats funny.

[microvax]

Service anouncement: All the desks are going to be flipped by me personally if we ever have an scenario where ajs37 gets no bk90s but ka50 gets vikhrs.

 

Yeah, I wished the freakin dopller rejection mode switch in muh mirage was working. No notching anymore if the target isnt in front of clutter.

Before that not loosing targets at high rollrate would be surpreme :D.

 

 

And overall yeah, fc3 planes arent easier or per definition less realistic in combat relevant systems. Its the details like nav drift ir missile cooling, missile standby etc., which doesnt influence combat effectiveness directly.

Only thing that influences is the average performance of a new pilot. A pilot who half way knows how to fly and knows the frame, will achive equal or better performance in an clicky cockpit I guess.

 

Wait for the Clicky typhoon. 360 no scope AIM2000 launches 24/7. )))

[OperatorJack]

 

Wait for the Clicky typhoon. 360 no scope AIM2000 launches 24/7. )))

 

That's assuming it won't fall out of the sky before it gets to the fight

[microvax]

That's assuming it won't fall out of the sky before it gets to the fight

 

+5 bonus pointz for VEAO EFM specialities reference.

[Coxy_99]

Off topic bashing devs? So were still moaning about the spamram what do you think the f18 is going to carry? As frostie said you cant compare the mig-21 to the m-2000.

 

Edit: Id like the ET bans there to SILENT

[Yuya6104]

Remembering the last golden times Round 5 fun when squadrons an lonewolfs and the 104th Mav his gang on really made alot fun exapt warping and such but that gone now here relive the moments first day round 5 at MM59 FRAP.

 

[Coxy_99]

Remembering the last golden times Round 5 fun when squadrons an lonewolfs and the 104th Mav his gang on really made alot fun exapt warping and such but that gone now here relive the moments first day round 5 at MM59 FRAP.

 

 

Fun times, Now its more moaning and whining, Like i said early rounds were better :thumbup:

[kobeshow]

I assume that comlaints increase whenever there is a perceived/real imbalance in the setup, since West vs East was introduced there is more room for people to complain since modules became side-exclusive.

[Coxy_99]

People blame the module or modules its not its there Situational awareness that gets them shot down lol

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

People blame the module or modules its not its there Situational awareness that gets them shot down lol

Well some people believe that midichlorians run the universe. Crazy huh. There will be those who think one way.....and those that think another. Can't please all parties but BS have done a great job of handling all groups

 

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[Reaper6]

I say round 9 should be AI only, we just get to watch and see how it all plays out.

 

Reaper6