advise for buying Falcon 4

[169th_Crusty]

I don`t have F4AF but I did try F4SP3, SP4 and FF3 (Cobra.exe) before.

To Pilotasso: I`ve got crapload of F16 HUD footage (on old VHS tapes:noexpression: ) and the dampenning of the pitch moment looks

exactly like in F4. I also heard a few things from the "horse`s" mouth and

overall - "the horse" was pretty positive when comparing F4`s FM to block52s.

There was something about the slow speed regime at low alt. and low weight

that he didn`t like - I don`t remember what it was.

I also remember reading endless arguments of the "experts" on different

forums disecting F4`s FM and usually (after 15 pages) they happily agreed

that the FM was not too bad. Especially when a RL viper driver chimed in.

Now, from what I`ve heard (or read?) the F15 in Lockon has a slightly

exagerated pitch "wobble" - like a Flanker should and does in Lockon very

nicely. Then again, I`m just another "expert":pilotfly:

 

Edit: Hehe, ericinexile - you just posted right before me and it looks like we got

the same feedback, except landing part - it could be tricky in RL too.

[Arbitrator]

fighters ops? i haven't heard that, forgive my ignorance. can anyone give me a quick summary of it or a link to some good websites with its descriptions will do too? thx.

[Rhen]

When you fly the F-16, you're not flying the jet. You're asking the FCS for "permission" to do something like bank the aircraft or rate the nose around. The FCS determines what it will let you do and then give you what you want or what it can give. Make no mistake - unless you fly a FBW Airbus or Boeing product - you're not flying the jet. You're just a meatsack playing with your joystick :P . The FCS is the thing that flys the jet.

 

This is required because the jet is inherently unstable. In your bug smasher, you pull the nose up 10 degrees or bank the aircraft 15 degrees. The jet will oscillate slowly back to it's last trimmed condition with the oscillations dampening out at the attitude it was last trimmed for. In a fighter jet, which is unstable, if there weren't a FCS flying the jet the nose would oscillate with greater amplitude or continue to bank or nose up. The FCS makes the jet flyable for a meatsack.

 

Regarding the F-16 landing, it's harder to land because if you're carrying any excess airspeed, the FCS will change that airspeed into a balloon. That's why it's important to fly AOA in the F-16.

 

The F-15 OTOH, is as easy to land as a souped up cessna. You've got to fly with more finesse to fight in the F-15 as well. You can't just yank on the stick the way you can in the F-16. The Eagle will allow you to pull as many Gs as you or the aircraft can stand. If you just hamfist the Eagle around, you'll end up slow and get eaten like a grape in BFM. You've got to listen to the aircraft when it talks to you. When the aircraft is in the light buffet you're max peforming the jet but keeping your airspeed (corner). If you're in moderate buffet, you're bleeding airspeed like a pig. You get more in tune with the sound of the airflow around the jet as well.

 

Regarding fighterops, it's a pretty ambitious project. Check it out at http://www.fighterops.com

[Guest IguanaKing]

Friggin' awesome explanation, Rhen. Rep inbound.

[Pilotasso]

This is required because the jet is inherently unstable. In your bug smasher, you pull the nose up 10 degrees or bank the aircraft 15 degrees. The jet will oscillate slowly back to it's last trimmed condition with the oscillations dampening out at the attitude it was last trimmed for. In a fighter jet, which is unstable, if there weren't a FCS flying the jet the nose would oscillate with greater amplitude or continue to bank or nose up. The FCS makes the jet flyable for a meatsack.

 

Exactly. This is why the F-16 IS NOT Automan's holographic jet. :D

It will woble and dance just like other fighters. Only at a less extent but definatly noticeable. Some people say that its feeling of flying on rails is a feature but from what I'm getting with footage and pilot remarks its apparent that this is a particular simulation ommission, because it is the result of the aproach the developers chose to do the lift and drag calculations in a simple way for the the times PC's.

[Pilotasso]

But those landings suck compared to LO it feels so arcadey ,how much info is being chomped to move that plane through the air, not much IMO.

 

Actualy low speed evelope is a weakness of both SIM's, as is for almost all the others too. I have yet to find a SIM that is as hard to land as the real thing withou having to resort to other effects to compensate such as glass like landing gear or damped down flight feeling on aproach.

 

F4 manages to be more difficult than reality while LOMAC it is too much forgiving.

[Guest IguanaKing]

The original F4 definitely taught you how to set your jet down gently, but it hasn't been that unforgiving for a while now. You still have to pay attention to AoA though, because its easy to scrape your butt in a Falcon. SP 4.2 with BMS 2.0 ain't bad. The only way we could totally realistically simulate the sensation of flight and/or landing is to hook little strings to our internal organs. :D

[Guest Cali]

LOMAC and F4 are both great sims, LOMAC more "game like" and F4 more "sim like". LOMAC is better online, but F4 is more real. So what game to choose? I would say, wait for FighterOps! That will be like LOMAC and F4 in one :) That would make the perfect sim right? Now imagine, there is a great chance that FO will even be BETTER as F4 and LOMAC combined! That makes me SMILE :D

 

But only US jets! which sucks, it's nice to fly against Migs and Su's.

[SUBS17]

F4AF also features dynamic weather which is quite cool eg I take off in Italy its a sunny day and fly to Bosnia where its cloudy and foggy at low level.

[Guest Cali]

F4AF also features dynamic weather which is quite cool eg I take off in Italy its a sunny day and fly to Bosnia where its cloudy and foggy at low level.

 

Would be nice if LO had that, maybe in the next project.

[suntrace1]

If only this was avaliable for F4:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVSnJvwpKA&search=dogfight%20greek%20turkish%20f16

 

Ahhh, well, life goes on...

[Kula66]

Well I tried AF soon after it came out & was dissapointed, to me it looked & felt like an 8 year old sim.

 

Too many times, the graphics remind you that this is an old game, & the flight model feels like you are in a "easy flight model" (training) mode, with no feel whatsoever.

 

I guess we have been spoilt with Lockon graphics & flight modeling which add more immersion that a clickable pit could ever do, which makes it very hard to compare the two, Lockon is in a whole different class.

 

My own immpression is that F4 is a avionics sim with a great DC, while Lockon is more a flight sim.

 

Totally agree Rastus ... Loaded F4 for a few days then removed it!

[SuperKungFu]

fighters ops? i haven't heard that, forgive my ignorance. can anyone give me a quick summary of it or a link to some good websites with its descriptions will do too? thx.

 

WHAAA?! You never heard of Fighter Ops!! Basically it will be a god-send to the flight sim world. http://www.fighterops.com/

 

Its like Lock On and Falcon mating togther...BAM...figher ops.

[Guest Cali]

WHAAA?! You never heard of Fighter Ops!! Basically it will be a god-send to the flight sim world. http://www.fighterops.com/

 

Its like Lock On and Falcon mating togther...BAM...figher ops.

 

FO isn't even done yet, we have no idea how it is going to be.

[SUBS17]

First release hopefully at the end of this year, but it could be next year it depends on how things go I guess. No different to any other sim in that respect. BTW latest Developers Diary is out.

http://fighterops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5117

[SUBS17]

If only this was avaliable for F4:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVSnJvwpKA&search=dogfight%20greek%20turkish%20f16

 

Ahhh, well, life goes on...

 

Thats probably the rumoured open Falcon, LP is currently working on a dx9 version of F4AF which would have better graphics etc. I doubt OF would get released to the public for obvious legal reasons but dam that vid looks sweet.:thumbup:

[SUBS17]

AFs graphics ain't too bad, there are a few skinless aircraft etc But overall not too bad, one feature it does have is people and they are animated as well. I've seen APCs with infantry and infantry running as well.(funny to watch and difficult to shoot)

Latest Hornet model

 

Refuelling on expert setting is also now possible

 

[SUBS17]

 

 

Another good story, while mucking around on the taxiway I accidentally collided with an F16 from another flight on the ground. The AI aircraft did a U-turn and parked inside a hangar.:pilotfly: I've also accidentally hit friendlys in dogfights with AAMs and seen them go straight to the hangar after landing.(yeah no IFF so it ain't my fault AWACs said he was a bogey:D )

[Arbitrator]

No IFF for F16?

and the main problem with the graphic is the feeling of materials of the airplane. they don't look like metals, instead, rather glass or paper made. there is no thickness feeling, and the afterburner, and the water vapor....but the terrain is ok.

[suntrace1]

There's no time to look out the cockpit and enjoy the scenery because of the workload in F4. The substence of F4 lays somewhere else than in graphics.

 

SUBS17: You're right - it's OF, not released because of legal issues. If i only had an army of highly trained, stealing monkeys...

Can we expect in DX9 version to have a working 3D pit? It's the only thing that's bothering me, constantly switching between 2D & 3D.

 

EDIT: Just noticed - why have my rep points dropped to 0?!

[Pilotasso]

First release hopefully at the end of this year, but it could be next year it depends on how things go I guess. No different to any other sim in that respect. BTW latest Developers Diary is out.

http://fighterops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5117

 

Oh man, I just hope they make it into this SIM. I have faith but Its realy hard to believe they will actualy put their rpoduct out. I realize they will do it by several installements. But IMHO it just sounds so fantastic it makes me wonder if they will be able to be funded so much time between releases. Because making the whole word with a dynamic campaign system and several aircraft flyable, seems a guttsy way to go for a team that is only now making its first product, and for what I understood some of the team has never participated in a similar project before.

 

My best wishes for FO.

[SUBS17]

There's no time to look out the cockpit and enjoy the scenery because of the workload in F4. The substence of F4 lays somewhere else than in graphics.

 

SUBS17: You're right - it's OF, not released because of legal issues. If i only had an army of highly trained, stealing monkeys...

Can we expect in DX9 version to have a working 3D pit? It's the only thing that's bothering me, constantly switching between 2D & 3D.

 

EDIT: Just noticed - why have my rep points dropped to 0?!

 

I'd guess the dx9 version of AF(probably AF2) would likely only use a 3dpit with 6dof as thats the standard now(fingers crossed:D ). BTW theres always time to enjoy scenery in F4, the workloads bugger all:pilotfly: .

[504 Wolverine]

EDIT: Just noticed - why have my rep points dropped to 0?!

Go to your control panel to see your rep points. Rep points can be taken away as well as given. Perhaps someone disagreed with some of your posts.

 

Do people actually bother about them?

[Arbitrator]

went through the FO website, holy smoking, that project really rocks. the detail of the aircraft already got me excited, just can't wait for it to come out. but just as pilotasso said, it seems a little too good to be true that it will come out at the end of this year. in the screen shot section, the latest ones are in feb but those are still modeling objects.

does FO have AFM? and i saw there are D models, those are two seated aircrafts, how do we suppose to pilot that? (didn't have time to read it thoroughly, just want a quick answer)

but still, best wish for them.

[Pilotasso]

does FO have AFM?

 

As I understand FO is to have AFM and even APM (advanced propulsion model).