Dr_Arrow Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 So I'm trying to land at K-Center. Navigation 40 works just fine, gives me bearing and range correction. 2 green lights. With Landing set to 38, when I move the switch over to "landing" I get no lights at all. With landing set to 40, I get a single green light (left one). Is the landing RSBN working properly? Additionally, the K-center vector from ATC is always to Runway 27. But seems like the RSBN is for Runway 09? I am flying from Krasnodar and I have exactly the same problem. RSBN landing channel 38 does not seem to work even when landing on runway 09, I get no green lights when I switch RSBN to landing mode. ATC prefers RWY27, except stronger winds coming from the east.
Tarres Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Yes, winds must be over 3m/s (10 km/h) to activate RWY09. A bit strange that ATC prefers RWY27 when the PRMG is active only in RWY09. Edit: I´ve tried Maykop and I don´t have this behaviour. Looking at the Beacons.lua file it could be an error in the Krasnodar - Center definition, a wrong "," placed maybe. Edited October 16, 2015 by Tarres
Tarres Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Sorry. I have the same behaviour in Maykop AFB, so no wrong "," placement in the lua. Maybe something related with the operation of the RSBN coupled with PRMG systems? Anyone able to look at the russian section of the forum? Thanks!
jonboede Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Here is the checklist I used for my L-39ZA. Note airspeed is in knots, altitude is in feet.L-39ZA Checklist.pdf
vladd148 Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Have been experiencing the same issue others were mentioning. Have inputted the correct channels, and have no problem using navigation or glide slope mode, but as soon as I switch to landing mode, both lights are no longer green. I have attempted using the mode at Krymsk and Maykop, and neither have worked for me. I have also set the course pointer on the RMI.
Tarres Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Well, after some readings, it´s not a bug. In short. If you set a RSBN frequency in the PRMG selector, you´ve got azimut indication "to the RSBN position" not to the PRMG glidepath. RSBN and PRMG are different beacons. You can have a RSBN without a PRMG associated. In the USSR, RSBN were used for civil and military air navigation (sort of VOR/DME) but PRMGs are military systems, so there are only PRMGs at military airfields. In the Krasnodar or Maykop examples, if the RWY that have PRMG is closed, the PRMG signal is turned off. If you set the RSBN frequency in the PRMG and set landing mode you have got indication of the azimut position of the RSBN beacon, but nothing else. Sorry for my english.
gospadin Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Well, after some readings, it´s not a bug. In short. If you set a RSBN frequency in the PRMG selector, you´ve got azimut indication "to the RSBN position" not to the PRMG glidepath. RSBN and PRMG are different beacons. You can have a RSBN without a PRMG associated. In the USSR, RSBN were used for civil and military air navigation (sort of VOR/DME) but PRMGs are military systems, so there are only PRMGs at military airfields. In the Krasnodar or Maykop examples, if the RWY that have PRMG is closed, the PRMG signal is turned off. If you set the RSBN frequency in the PRMG and set landing mode you have got indication of the azimut position of the RSBN beacon, but nothing else. Sorry for my english. Thanks. Will re-test with enough weather to activate the appropriate runways. My liveries, mods, and missions for DCS:World M-2000C English Cockpit | Extra Beacons Mod | Nav Kneeboard | Community A-4E
gospadin Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Just as a followup, it does seem to be working properly. Tested at Krymsk, with a 10m/s wind from the NE. Vectored in for RWY 04. Switched to landing mode, channel 26, and got the heading and glideslope indicators on the HSI with range information on the PPD. Re-tested, same wind, starting to the north east, and confirmed that when vectored in to RWY 04, the PRMG showed no data when I was outside of the glide slope limits on the wrong side of the runway. As soon as I overflew the runway in the wrong direction (flying over runway 22), after a little bit my RMI picked up the glide path (though I was flying away, not towards it) and heading data, and the PPD accurately showed the range. The RSI lost signal right as I overflew the end of the runway. One question however. When in landing mode, only the "DISTANCE CORRECTION" signal lamp (of the two green bulbs, the one on the right) was lit. The AZIMUTH lamp stayed dark. Is this expected in landing mode? My liveries, mods, and missions for DCS:World M-2000C English Cockpit | Extra Beacons Mod | Nav Kneeboard | Community A-4E
Tarres Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Yes. You need to set the RSBN and the PRMG channels to get all the signals. They are different but complementary signals with independent beacons. Approach to the AFB via RSBN, then set descend mode to intercept glidepath and then set landing (PRMG signal) to land.
Lino_Germany Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 There is a lot of confusion about - Active runways at certain airspeeds with tailwind/headwind - Runways equipped with RSBN and/or PRMG or nothing of that kind Is there any overview / spreadsheet available that gives a clear picture what´s going on at each airfield of the caucasus theatre? Kind regards, Lino_Germany
Tarres Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 RSBN: for navigation only. Sort of VORTAC. 4 in the Caucasus area: Krymsk, Krasnodar, Maykop and Mozdok. PRMG: for landings. Sort of Russian military only ILS. Available at the 4 military bases of the Caucusus map: Krymsk and Mozdok, available for both approaches, obviously only available in the active runway. Maykop and Krasnodar Center, only available for RWY 22 and 09 If you set a RSBN channel in the PRMG component of the RSBN-4 system you get a bearing indication of the position of the RSBN beacon only, with the azimuth light of the system on, never with the distance light on, independently of the runway that is active. I don't see any problems using the system. One more thing, do not compare this system with the more simplified system that is used in the 21. It's the same RSBN-4 only in name. The L-39 depicts a real RSBN/PRMG system that is more useful to navigate across the map Sorry for my English.
Lino_Germany Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 RSBN: for navigation only. Sort of VORTAC. 4 in the Caucasus area: Krymsk, Krasnodar, Maykop and Mozdok. PRMG: for landings. Sort of Russian military only ILS. Available at the 4 military bases of the Caucusus map: Krymsk and Mozdok, available for both approaches, obviously only available in the active runway. Maykop and Krasnodar Center, only available for RWY 22 and 09 If you set a RSBN channel in the PRMG component of the RSBN-4 system you get a bearing indication of the position of the RSBN beacon only, with the azimuth light of the system on, never with the distance light on, independently of the runway that is active. I don't see any problems using the system. One more thing, do not compare this system with the more simplified system that is used in the 21. It's the same RSBN-4 only in name. The L-39 depicts a real RSBN/PRMG system that is more useful to navigate across the map Sorry for my English. Thanks. I guess this should enter the "Beacon Map" in some way... Kind regards, Lino_Germany
AnnaNass Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Here are to charts for navigation not only for the l-39: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1514733/ https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1514742/
Lino_Germany Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 PRMG: for landings. Sort of Russian military only ILS. Available at the 4 military bases of the Caucusus map: Krymsk and Mozdok, available for both approaches, obviously only available in the active runway. Maykop and Krasnodar Center, only available for RWY 22 and 09 After some testing, it seems that PRMG at Maykop airbase is available for runway 04 only. That would correspond with the markings on the map... Kind regards, Lino_Germany
foxbat155 Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Guys, I have scanned original RSBN-5 manual from 1976 in polish language ( from Su-20 aircraft ). If anyone from you wanna struggle with reading or translation please PM me, I will send you copy. Regards. :thumbup:
CZ_pavel Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Hallo, I do not work in L39c income PRMG channels. RSBN operating normally. Once you switch to your landing is no PRMG signal. (Mozdok, Krymsk, Krasnodar, Maykop). Thank You
slamraamproductions Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Hallo, I do not work in L39c income PRMG channels. RSBN operating normally. Once you switch to your landing is no PRMG signal. (Mozdok, Krymsk, Krasnodar, Maykop). Thank You I just did a PRMG on Krymsk RWY 04, Channel 26, three way switch on Landing mode. It works without any problem, both flags are off (horizontal and vertical needles are working) Also a PRMG on Krasnodar Center RWY 09, channel 38, works fine. (Maybe you should test what is actually the active runway with the tower, because somewhere i read that it may affect the PRMG) <==DCS Flaming Cliffs 3: Operation Grand Slam <==Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2 Tribute
gospadin Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I just did a PRMG on Krymsk RWY 04, Channel 26, three way switch on Landing mode. It works without any problem, both flags are off (horizontal and vertical needles are working) Also a PRMG on Krasnodar Center RWY 09, channel 38, works fine. (Maybe you should test what is actually the active runway with the tower, because somewhere i read that it may affect the PRMG) Correct. There's no PRMG for the non-active runway. You can determine active runway by asking ATC, or by listening to the beacon broadcasts. (NDBs for the non active runway won't broadcast either.) My liveries, mods, and missions for DCS:World M-2000C English Cockpit | Extra Beacons Mod | Nav Kneeboard | Community A-4E
Lino_Germany Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Maybe you should test what is actually the active runway with the tower, because somewhere i read that it may affect the PRMG http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151343 Kind regards, Lino_Germany
CZ_pavel Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151343 Thank you, it is o.k. now :thumbup:
pepin1234 Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Correct. There's no PRMG for the non-active runway. You can determine active runway by asking ATC, or by listening to the beacon broadcasts. (NDBs for the non active runway won't broadcast either.) I did 3 try to landing in Maykob. I set all perfect PRMG setting with all frequencies correct. Then when I ask for Landing ATC send me to runaway 22. When I expect landing by runaway 4 to test the PRMG landing. What kind of joke is this? It is set as random or I need change the wind direction in editor? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Art-J Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Yep. By default, in non-wind condition, ATC for Maykop always tells You to operate from 22. So only setting up some wind in editor will change its mind. Same limitation applies to Krasnodar. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.
pepin1234 Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Still impossible landing in Maykob by runaway 4. After I set wind direction 070, Maykob ATC keep saying runaway 22. I quit PRMG landing. I got tire to try this so many times [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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