DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

[RaXha]

I like how someones actually gone through every single page and crossed out the "Hemlig" stamp by hand. :P

[renhanxue]

I like how someones actually gone through every single page and crossed out the "Hemlig" stamp by hand. :P

They're actually supposed to do that on all documents they declassify. Usually they're too lazy/busy though and just cross it out on the first page. The stamp itself doesn't have any legal effect, but it's a reminder to whoever handles the document that it could contain classified info, and unless you're responsible for the document you're supposed to trust it.

 

Thanks a thousand times man.

 

Its a very interesting read.

 

Currently reading about the radar operation and weapons use etc.

 

:Edit

 

A very interesting read so far with plenty of information surrounding weapon deployment radar operations aswell as the countermeassure /RWR system.

 

Sadly it appears to be a early AJ-37 Manual (Date says 1975)

 

So informations on two of the weapon systems i was the most curious about are sadly not included =(.

 

that being the RB-75 (Maverick) and the Visual Display (no visual display mounted at this time since the Mav was not yet in service while it was ordered in 75 it entered service in 77)

 

And the other weapon being the RB-24J since i was curious about the abillity to uncage the seeker and if that included an abillity to slew the seekerhead (either manually or by slewing it to radar)

 

But the infomation that is in it is amazing and its gonna take some time to go through everything =).

 

So thanks again a hundred fold.

 

No problem, glad you enjoy it. There's a bit more information in updated pages section from 1995 that's forthcoming (probably tomorrow), but I don't think there's a lot about rb 75/rb 24J there either. I suspect some of the info that was there might have been redacted too due to a non-disclosure agreement with the US.

[RaXha]

No problem, glad you enjoy it. There's a bit more information in updated pages section from 1995 that's forthcoming (probably tomorrow), but I don't think there's a lot about rb 75/rb 24J there either. I suspect some of the info that was there might have been redacted too due to a non-disclosure agreement with the US.

 

Any information in there about the Bk90 or Rb15F? :-) I would think those two would be the hardest to procure information about. :-)

[renhanxue]

Any information in there about the Bk90 or Rb15F? :-) I would think those two would be the hardest to procure information about. :-)

No, this is AJ 37 info only. I will request AJS 37 though and see what they say!

[MBot]

AFAIK they didn't cause stress to the wing, they caused vibrations to the hung weapon which would reduce an IR-AAM's lifespan to about 100 hours. AFAIK they were cleared for use in wartime.

 

This is quite interesting. Was the wiring for the Falcon compatible with the Sidewinder, so could Sidewinders have been used on the outer stations in wartime?

[theOden]

Sweet Molly, tht's some golden documents there renhanxue - makes me sooo keen to just fly NAV for hours and hours.

[WinterH]

Thanks for sharing, even though I don't understand a single word in Swedish, I've still quite enjoyed trawling through pages and trying to make some sense out of it :D.

[RaXha]

No, this is AJ 37 info only. I will request AJS 37 though and see what they say!

 

Ah of course those two weapons would not be included then! :doh:

[BravoYankee4]

This is quite interesting. Was the wiring for the Falcon compatible with the Sidewinder, so could Sidewinders have been used on the outer stations in wartime?

 

According to all information I have seen these pylons where hardwired for the RB-28. So that is why they where unused until the AJS upgrade.

[RaXha]

Thanks again renhanxue, this has been an excellent read so far! :D

 

Edit: The sections about the methods of attack using different weapons are intresting. It surprises me slightly how much planning appears to be done beforehand, flight path to the target area, exact times of attacks and climbs before attacks etc. :-) I didn't expect this much planning considering the aircraft weere to be used to hinder an incomming invasion force. :-)

Edited January 27, 2016 by RaXha

[renhanxue]

Fpl AJ37: speciell förarinstruktion, del 2, kap 1, ändring 90

 

A package of updated pages from 1995. Among other things contains info about the new jammer pod, kapsel U22. Annoyingly I only got this one update pack - ideally I would've gotten all of them and could've been able to reconstruct a "final" version of the manual by replacing pages as instructed in the update packs, but this is the only one I got for whatever reason so here you go for now.

[mattebubben]

Ok first interesting thing from this latest update.

 

And thanks again for these texts.

 

In the part where it talks about Air-Air Combat it pretty directly confirmed the abillity to Lock a target with the radar in air-air mode.

 

At page 83 it directly mentions The Abillity to with a Radar lock get Range cues for both maximum / minimum ranges etc with the Aim-9.

 

So thats a confirmation for the abillity to Lock a target with the radar in Air-Air mode.

 

It however did not mention if it has the abillity to Slew the radar to the target or not so that remains to be seen.

 

It does mention the degree to wich the Missile seeker heads for the RB24 (Aim-9B) and RB24J (aim9P/J)

 

can slew the seeker.

 

But since its already confirmed in the earlier parts that the missile could be uncaged prior to launch this is not proof either way when it comes to if the radar can or can not slew the missiles seeker onto a target.

Edited January 27, 2016 by mattebubben

[Erab]

Ok first interesting thing from this latest update.

 

And thanks again for these texts.

 

In the part where it talks about Air-Air Combat it pretty directly confirmed the abillity to Lock a target with the radar in air-air mode.

 

At page 83 it directly mentions The Abillity to with a Radar lock get Range cues for both maximum / minimum ranges etc with the Aim-9.

 

So thats a confirmation for the abillity to Lock a target with the radar in Air-Air mode.

 

It however did not mention if it has the abillity to Slew the radar to the target or not so that remains to be seen.

 

It does mention the degree to wich the Missile seeker heads for the RB24 (Aim-9B) and RB24J (aim9P/J)

 

can slew the seeker.

 

But since its already confirmed in the earlier parts that the missile could be uncaged prior to launch this is not proof either way when it comes to if the radar can or can not slew the missiles seeker onto a target.

 

Can you explain it to me like I'm a complete newb with this radar stuff?

[Cik]

basically, the plane can figure out where the enemy is (in front of the plane, at least) then tell the heat-seeker where to look to find it's engine. once the heatseeker finds the engine, you can shoot and hit the enemy.

 

hopefully.

[mattebubben]

The way IR weapons work on the FC3 aircraft (mig-29 Su-27 F-15 etc)

 

Compared to the way older aircraft like a mig-21 where forced to point their nose directly at an enemy (point missile right at a target) before the seeker could find and lock onto something.

 

We now know that the AJS-37 can get a Radar lock on an enemy.

 

We Know that it had the abillity to uncage the seeker (letting it move around instead of staying fixed fowards)

 

A missile is Automaticly uncaged when its launched so the seeker can track a target even when turning etc.

 

From the earlier texts it said normal procedure would be if you got a good tone from the missile (IR seeker locked onto a target) you would manually uncage it (with a control that might have been on the stick)

this would allow you to manuver (to the seekers limit atleast) and the seeker could still see and lock onto the target.

 

What we do not yet know if it was possible to slave the Seeker to the radar to where with a radar lock on a target the Radar could automatically slew (turn) the seeker head to where it could see and lock the target that is locked by the radar.

 

(like most modern fighters do)

 

This abillity would be a great addition to its air-air capabillities.

 

Thus it would be nice to find out evidence if it has that abillity or not.

[RagnarDa]

It really doesn't "lock" a target in the modern sense, but shows the range to whatever is in front of the aircraft. It also stores the last distance/closing rate measured and extrapolates from that. The radar is not steered to the target nor is the seeker head in the missile.

[RaXha]

It really doesn't "lock" a target in the modern sense, but shows the range to whatever is in front of the aircraft. It also stores the last distance/closing rate measured and extrapolates from that. The radar is not steered to the target nor is the seeker head in the missile.

 

So in other words the radar helps the seeker to know generally where to look but doesn't assist more than that?

Edited January 28, 2016 by RaXha

[RagnarDa]

It helps the pilot to know when the target is in range for the missile.

[RaXha]

It helps the pilot to know when the target is in range for the missile.

 

Ok, got it! :thumbup:

[theOden]

It really doesn't "lock" a target in the modern sense, but shows the range to whatever is in front of the aircraft. It also stores the last distance/closing rate measured and extrapolates from that. The radar is not steered to the target nor is the seeker head in the missile.

Reading the documents I'm with mattebubben on this, it clearly says "låsning" which I would expect being the same as a lock (just like running the F-16C in ACM Bore Sight Mode)?

What did we miss?

[mattebubben]

Reading the documents I'm with mattebubben on this, it clearly says "låsning" which I would expect being the same as a lock (just like running the F-16C in ACM Bore Sight Mode)?

What did we miss?

 

Yea RadarLåsning = Radar Lock.

[BravoYankee4]

Yea RadarLåsning = Radar Lock.

 

Yeah, even though the radar is locked, that doesn't help much if the missile head is IR. With the technology at hand back then I don't think there was any way to slew this radar information to the missile?

Still, the pilot would get a lot better situational awerness with the radar information.

[renhanxue]

Lock in this case I think just means it follows the target automatically. There's no point in trying to paint the target since the AJ(S) 37 doesn't have any radar guided missiles.

[OziRekt]

Does the radar provide a lead computing sight for the gun pods? Or will we have to used a fixed reticle?

[mattebubben]

I know and i have never stated otherwise.

 

I was Curios if it had the abillity to slew the IR Seeker head but never assumed it could.

 

I simply stated that the Manual confirmed the abillity to lock up air-air targets and feeding range info etc.

 

Yeah, even though the radar is locked, that doesn't help much if the missile head is IR. With the technology at hand back then I don't think there was any way to slew this radar information to the missile?

Still, the pilot would get a lot better situational awerness with the radar information.

 

 

Im not talking about the radar guiding the missile.

 

Im talking about the Radar being able to slew the seekerhead around (on while on the pylon)

to whatever target was locked up making it able to get a good lock at an enemy

(seeker head could still lock any target in that area since it was not locked on the radar locked target that way)

 

Allowing for a Seeker lock at a target not directly infront of the missile etc.

 

And i was curious if the AJ(AJS)37 had this abillity to slave the Seeker head to the Radar.

 

As i am yet to find evidence either way =P.

 

Im leaning towards that it might not be able to do that but im still looking.

Edited January 28, 2016 by mattebubben