AV-8B Harrier Thread

[shagrat]

I'm probably too fast, with my aim-off point too far away from the target.

Most important is to keep wings level and let the plane fly the cross over the target. If your angle is correct, you can place the fall line over the target, with the Velocity Vector on or near the aim-off point and the rest happens more or less automatically.

Key is t the roll in. If you end up with bad parameters, abort and run in again.

 

It isn't as easy, as it is to write it down.

You need to train the visual cues and a decent estimate if the distance to the target...

[Nealius]

With BDU33s, at least, that doesn't seem to work. VV at 30°, Target at around 35° in the HUD, wings level, maintain 1G, fly the cross through the target, the cross never becomes solid. I pickle anyway, with bombs typically landing long (which I believe means excess speed). I'm going around 430-450KTAS at release.

[DJSean]

Sorry for the silly question, but where can we find development updates about the harrier?

 

Would be good to know what's currently being worked on and planned for the next patch.

 

DJ

[Zadren]

Sorry for the silly question, but where can we find development updates about the harrier?

 

Would be good to know what's currently being worked on and planned for the next patch.

 

DJ

 

 

That is a fine question..... :music_whistling:

[Flia]

Really very good question

[shagrat]

With BDU33s, at least, that doesn't seem to work. VV at 30°, Target at around 35° in the HUD, wings level, maintain 1G, fly the cross through the target, the cross never becomes solid. I pickle anyway, with bombs typically landing long (which I believe means excess speed). I'm going around 430-450KTAS at release.

Hmm, I didn't have much time to test this, but in a quick run in on the targets in the Instant Action mission with dumb bombs (Mk-82) it worked. No designation, simple eyeball Mk I attack from 12k feet, dive angle 15-20°, speed below 500kts. Stabilized between 8.000 and 7.000 ft with a slight but constant pull on the stick, solid cross after 2-3 seconds and could have pickled at about 5.000, if had not forgotten to arm the f...ing "Master Arm", again! ;)

 

If I have time I'll try to look up the speed (IIRC it was in the NATOPS Tac manual) and test with steeper angles and designation etc.

 

At a glance it looks like it works, already.

[al531246]

Steady parameters for a couple seconds, for the ARBS to calculate... No time to look up the exact parameters in the NATOPS manual, but I'm sure they are in there.

The key is to fly a proper bomb triangle/approach and put the nose/velocity vector behind(!) the target and let the plane fly the crosshairs through the target after leveling out, instead of trying to make last seconds adjustments... Easier said than done, I know. ;)

 

With BDU33s, at least, that doesn't seem to work. VV at 30°, Target at around 35° in the HUD, wings level, maintain 1G, fly the cross through the target, the cross never becomes solid. I pickle anyway, with bombs typically landing long (which I believe means excess speed). I'm going around 430-450KTAS at release.

 

Lads, this is not an error you can fix. The CCIP bombing on the AV-8B is programmed incorrectly. The dashed cross IRL signifies that the piper is not the ACTUAL impact point. The CCIP piper / cross cannot leave the HUD FOV in the AV-8B IRL so when the impact point is off the screen it displays a dashed cross to denote it.

 

The dashed cross for 'inaccurate release' or whatever it's supposed to be is bollocks. It is not a function that exists.

 

Also IRL the DMT must be slewed to the area you're going to bomb say approx within 50ft or so of the target, you can't just select bombs and start bombing. You must give the computer something to range from. I don't believe this has been programmed in yet tho.

 

Please see my post here where I cover the CCIP errors in detail - https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=201489

[shagrat]

Lads, this is not an error you can fix. The CCIP bombing on the AV-8B is programmed incorrectly. The dashed cross IRL signifies that the piper is not the ACTUAL impact point. The CCIP piper / cross cannot leave the HUD FOV in the AV-8B IRL so when the impact point is off the screen it displays a dashed cross to denote it.

 

The dashed cross for 'inaccurate release' or whatever it's supposed to be is bollocks. It is not a function that exists.

 

Also IRL the DMT must be slewed to the area you're going to bomb say approx within 50ft or so of the target, you can't just select bombs and start bombing. You must give the computer something to range from. I don't believe this has been programmed in yet tho.

 

Please see my post here where I cover the CCIP errors in detail - https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=201489

Partly yes, partly no. According to the NATOPS Tactical manual, chapter 2. it is explained in detail.

First the dashed cross, as you pointed out indicates a release point outside the HUD, at least IRL.

We miss the reflected CCIP as far as I am aware and it is strange with the impact point calculated short, as in the "angle cannot be exactly calculated as the area the aimpoint is looking at is outside the HUD (or more precise too far away from the flight path left or right will also give you a bad solution)" the bombs drop long and not short.

 

So I would expect if you pickle with a dashed cross the bomb should fall short and not long, so there likely is a bug.

Also the drop should be inhibited as long as the reflected CCIP bar is shown, so you shouldn't be able to drop, anyway.

 

Now the ARBS seems to be a very smart system. It uses either a GPS, a Barometric height, or RadarAlt to determine the height and calculates a CCIP (Continuously Computed Impact Point) and that is absolutely independent from a designation on the ground. A designation can enhance the accuracy, but the angle in ARBS is what enables the calculation of a bomb triangle.

This works pretty well unless your altitude above ground varies drastically from the target elevation.

You can see the current method of height calculation by the GCIP, BCIP or RCIP displayed in the HUD (I can at least confirm RCIP - Radaraltimeter is showing in the HUD in DCS).

If you fly good parameters it at least shows a solid cross as expected, and my drops where within acceptable range.

 

As this whole module is still early access and WIP, I would not bet on everything is 100% exact, already.

Unless Razbam gives us some details that is.

 

For now I try to get to grips with the real life procedures and studying the A1-AV-8BB-TAC-000.

Edited March 9, 2018 by shagrat

[shagrat]

...and I found the limitation. It is on the Mk-82 bomb, it says in the TAC-050 under weapons limitations for the Mk-82 something about 550 kts A/S, though the typical deliveries use 450 kts, 500 kts or 550 kts profiles.

So I am not sure this is relevant at all in our typical attack profile, as 585 kts or 0.98 Mach or more starts giving you trouble with the airframe anyway. :dunno:

[AcroGimp]

I picked up the Night Attack AV-8B as a tide-me-over until the Hornet releases and wow, what a complex beast.

 

Just starting on basic indoctrination right now, day/VFR unarmed fam flights but so looking forward to learning sensors and weapons, really a cool little jet.

 

'Gimp

[Fabion66]

Hello to all.

I have a question and maybe someone of you could help me. I am not able to get a valid lock on moving target with the litening in the AV8B. It works only with static objects. And with theese targets I can use Mav and GBU's. But when I click the button AR/PT only Area works or instead the button INR. But all theese 2 are not able to lock a moving target. Maybe because the litening is stil a WIP or I am not able and I do something wrong? Could you kindly help me ? Thanks .

Fabio

[Pikey]

Currently a known bug that is fixed internally or close to.

Workaround is to hotstart your Harrier.

Hello to all.

I have a question and maybe someone of you could help me. I am not able to get a valid lock on moving target with the litening in the AV8B. It works only with static objects. And with theese targets I can use Mav and GBU's. But when I click the button AR/PT only Area works or instead the button INR. But all theese 2 are not able to lock a moving target. Maybe because the litening is stil a WIP or I am not able and I do something wrong? Could you kindly help me ? Thanks .

Fabio

[Tackle]

Hello to all.

I have a question and maybe someone of you could help me. I am not able to get a valid lock on moving target with the litening in the AV8B. It works only with static objects. And with theese targets I can use Mav and GBU's. But when I click the button AR/PT only Area works or instead the button INR. But all theese 2 are not able to lock a moving target. Maybe because the litening is stil a WIP or I am not able and I do something wrong? Could you kindly help me ? Thanks .

Fabio

 

Might be related to this:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=202752

 

I have yet to try locking on to moving targets, so this is the best I can offer :)

[Fabion66]

Might be related to this:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=202752

 

I have yet to try locking on to moving targets, so this is the best I can offer :)

Thank you very much. I've understood. Actually my problem was that I remembered that al teast one time I was able to lock moving targets but when I tried yesterday I was not able and this is because I like to start the plane (the chopper...everything) from the cold....and that's the problem I think. I suppose it's a bug...you cannot lock moving targets when you start the plane from the cold..I hope that Razbam will solve also this... and soon....because now the module is out since last november and we are in march... bye

Fabio

[Kaned Dragon]

Hi I have a question regarding the Harrier and thought this might be the best place to ask.

Is it likely we'll see some more ordinance for the Harrier. I read it can use Harm missile and AIM-120? But can't see in the weapon load out screen.

[Einherjer]

AIM-120 only for the AV8B II+ , not for the night attack we have right now

[Fabion66]

AIM-120 only for the AV8B II+ , not for the night attack we have right now

Actually they don't give us nor what they promised in the advertisment...like AGM 65 E (laser Mav) and GBU 38 GBU 54 jdam...and also a well working litening...where it's possible to choose point tracking also when you start the plane from the cold....it would be enought if they'd give us what there is written in the web site substantially... now we are in april... :noexpression:

Bye

[mattebubben]

Actually they don't give us nor what they promised in the advertisment...like AGM 65 E (laser Mav) and GBU 38 GBU 54 jdam...and also a well working litening...where it's possible to choose point tracking also when you start the plane from the cold....it would be enought if they'd give us what there is written in the web site substantially... now we are in april... :noexpression:

Bye

 

We are in early access...

So ofc the aircraft is not feature complete.

Wait and see what its like when it reaches full release and if things are still missing then there would be reason to complain.

 

Before buying a early access product always take into account the fact that it is work in progress and there will be a long time untill all the features are implemented into the aircraft.

[Einherjer]

Actually they don't give us nor what they promised in the advertisment...like AGM 65 E (laser Mav) and GBU 38 GBU 54 jdam...and also a well working litening...where it's possible to choose point tracking also when you start the plane from the cold....it would be enought if they'd give us what there is written in the web site substantially... now we are in april... :noexpression:

 

Bye

 

 

 

Why should they... they never said it’s included to the early access produced. But they said the early access isn’t feature complete , please come back after release.

[Fabion66]

We are in early access...

So ofc the aircraft is not feature complete.

Wait and see what its like when it reaches full release and if things are still missing then there would be reason to complain.

 

Before buying a early access product always take into account the fact that it is work in progress and there will be a long time untill all the features are implemented into the aircraft.

Ok... I ll wait...a long time.... there is anything else to do....if not to wait... Bye

[Einherjer]

Yeah we all have to wait... with or without early access

 

It’s done when it’s done

 

;)

[shagrat]

Ok... I ll wait...a long time.... there is anything else to do....if not to wait... Bye

Well, you could start learning proper STO, VTO and the different landings including carrier landings in different spots.

Followed by air-to-air refueling, TACAN navigation.

Then there's BFM with guns and AIM-9, with VIFF, as it is very Harrier specific...

And if we have mastered all this, we can start with low level ingress and pop up in night conditions, may be combined with short range attacks against smaller SAM.

[Kaned Dragon]

Cool, at least it sounds like yes there are things that aren't yet implemented, but might get implemented in the future. At least it's not a definite no. And I guess instead of a powerful radar in the nose, it's got all that cool FLIR night time tech. Hence why maybe the version we got can't use them 120. Although it does seem silly having a multi role attack fighter that can take off from a carrier, but doesn't use those Harpoons. So far I've only been able to take out ships like the Molniya or Grisha. I tried taking on the Yantie. AGM-65G don't really cut it. But I think that is me not using the right tool for the job. Or just not know what I'm doing.

 

Right now my biggest gripe with the AV-8B isn't the plane. It's those rockeye cluster bombs. They just don't seem to do much damage. From what I've read that is more a DCS problem.

 

So yeah early access, but at least we have the TPOD working, so we can do laser bombs and what not. Enough to tide us over at least :) And the night time flying is awesome with the FLIR on the HUD. I'm no longer scared of the night hehe.

 

Thanks for the responses

[Fabion66]

Well, you could start learning proper STO, VTO and the different landings including carrier landings in different spots.

Followed by air-to-air refueling, TACAN navigation.

Then there's BFM with guns and AIM-9, with VIFF, as it is very Harrier specific...

And if we have mastered all this, we can start with low level ingress and pop up in night conditions, may be combined with short range attacks against smaller SAM.

Ok. :)

[Fabion66]

Cool, at least it sounds like yes there are things that aren't yet implemented, but might get implemented in the future. At least it's not a definite no. And I guess instead of a powerful radar in the nose, it's got all that cool FLIR night time tech. Hence why maybe the version we got can't use them 120. Although it does seem silly having a multi role attack fighter that can take off from a carrier, but doesn't use those Harpoons. So far I've only been able to take out ships like the Molniya or Grisha. I tried taking on the Yantie. AGM-65G don't really cut it. But I think that is me not using the right tool for the job. Or just not know what I'm doing.

 

Right now my biggest gripe with the AV-8B isn't the plane. It's those rockeye cluster bombs. They just don't seem to do much damage. From what I've read that is more a DCS problem.

 

So yeah early access, but at least we have the TPOD working, so we can do laser bombs and what not. Enough to tide us over at least :) And the night time flying is awesome with the FLIR on the HUD. I'm no longer scared of the night hehe.

 

Thanks for the responses

Hello. yes, you are right for what concern the Mk 20...they are not very powerful . Maybe a problem of Dcs, like you told, maybe not at 100 %. The rockeyes aren't CBU 97 or 105. Anyway I found them better now after the relaese of DCS 2.5, but they are not able to take out a BMP1 with a single shot. Better are the Zunis in my opinion. If you are able to aim them correctly, they are very powerful. And using the abiity of the harrier to fly normally in the night, without to be spotted by not modern forces, it's possible to fly very near to the target and shoot with precision. Once, with my surprise, I was able to destroy a T55 with 1 or 2 shots well aimed... Bye..