(E)R oversusceptibility to chaff and clutter

[*Rage*]

This is a new thread following on from Sithspawns recommendation that we should have a clean bug report thread with all the tracks and tacviews deposited for the benefit of the Devs.

 

 

 

Tracks and tacviews attached.

 

This is not intended as a discussion thread. There are plenty more of those type of threads for the inevitable bickering/OT/but my mate 'dave' said../derailing etc such as here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=152573

 

I intend to update the testing in this thread with each new patch that it released. For comparison purposes all previous tests with older versions of DCS can be found here:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7su8ges5gefzpfu/AADqkiSXQnYX-ZokjpZIDclca?dl=0

 

Please only post if you are uploading a track/tacview. Sith has kindly agreed to keep this thread clean and for testing/uploading purposes only. Extraneous posts will be deleted.

ER testing.rar

Edited January 8, 2016 by ///Rage

[Ironhand]

Just took a close look at the 3 Tacview files labeled "missile testing". Just an observation. When the missiles go for chaff, they seem to be going for the 2nd, 4th or 8th "bundle" in the line if the track is a crossing track. Odd numbered bundles creep in, though, when it's nose to nose--either 3 or 7 along with the 2s, 4s, and 8s.

 

Interesting, too, to see the missiles shift course toward new chaff, when the chaff they were "tracking" disappeared.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Ironhand

[*Rage*]

DCS 1.5.2

 

Still the problem persists with 1.5 update 2

 

 

Ive noticed before missiles will often fly desperately close to the target but not explode - not sure why they dont pull that last available G - exemplified here:

 

Tacview-20160125-112417-DCS.txt.rar

Tacview-20160125-113046-DCS.txt.rar

Edited January 31, 2016 by ///Rage

[Ironhand]

...

 

Ive noticed before missiles will often fly desperately close to the target but not explode - not sure why they dont pull that last available G - exemplified here:..

Because they're not guiding on the F-15 but, rather, the chaff? That was my impression, anyway. I've seen something similar and, when I checked it, that was what was going on in my case.

 

Another thing to be aware of, though I don't think it applies here but it might. If you are notched and EOS becomes the lead channel, the shot is trashed even if you remain locked or lock is reacquired. You have a lock but guidance is gone. You have to put a new missile into the air.

 

You can tell from the HDD. Upon launch, the target icon begins flashing indicating that guidance is up and running (however you want to conceptualize it). But as soon as you are notched and EOS becomes the primary channel, the target icon stops flashing. Guidance for that missile is gone.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Ironhand

[*Rage*]

There are no countermeasures deployed in the second of the above videos though. I think its a separate issue than the chaff/flare miss-tracking one as i see it quite frequently when there are no CMs in the air.

[Ironhand]

There are no countermeasures deployed in the second of the above videos though. I think its a separate issue than the chaff/flare miss-tracking one as i see it quite frequently when there are no CMs in the air.

Ummm...There certainly are countermeasures employed:

 

 

 

Or isn't this the video you're referring to? Then again, I notice that you labeled it R-73 but R-27ERs are being employed. Did you post the wrong video?

 

 

EDIT: Downloaded the Tacview files themselves and it indeed seems you posted the wrong video. Seems odd that they all missed but, then again, I'm having a hard time telling what the launch parameters were. Were those launched at RTR? Or between RTR and RMin? Judging by their speed at "intercept", I'm thinking the latter.

 

 

Rich

Edited January 29, 2016 by Ironhand

[*Rage*]

Damnit. Looks like I uploaded the wrong video. Will correct either tonight or tomorrow!

 

Edit: R73 video updated!

Edited January 31, 2016 by ///Rage

[*Rage*]

As requested from the Russian side of the forum. More ER chaff mistracks...

 

 

Latest DCS version.

 

Track attached.

Эпик.trk

Edited May 9, 2016 by ///Rage

[probad]

looks like hes getting notched pretty hard there.

[Frostie]

looks like hes getting notched pretty hard there.

Clearly not notching, above the radar and still locked, clear sky, no ground clutter coming into it. The fact is if no chaff was deployed the missiles would have hit.

[*Rage*]

Good news!

 

Из изменений которые прямо влияют на геймплей, могу сказать что в 1.5.4 пофиксили баг полуактивных ракет когда они видели ловушки вне конуса луча РЛС носителя. В результате их эффективность, точнее помехоустойчивость, выросла.

 

From the changes that directly affect the gameplay, I can say that in 1.5.4 Fixed bug semi-active missiles when they saw the trap outside the cone beam media radar. As a result of their efficiency, or rather the noise immunity, increased.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2813566&postcount=338

Edited June 17, 2016 by ///Rage

[red_coreSix]

Awesome news :thumbup:

[fixen]

If I translate it correctly the missile now no longer goes after chaff that is outside of it's sensor range which will Increase missile performance?

[*Rage*]

Outside of the radar cone, as I understand it from google translate.

[fixen]

Outside of the radar cone, as I understand it from google translate.

 

Yeah thats what I meant, outside of cone angle range, bad wording on my part

[Veritech]

Has anybody noticed any difference?

[*Rage*]

upcoming in 1.5.4

[Kuky]

Correct, bug was that SARH missiles were seeing decoys that are outside the radar beam and reacting to them.

[Veritech]

Any idea when 1.5.4 is going to be released?

 

Poor me that thought that this update hiatus was because of 2.5 being about to be released.

I have to keep dreaming then.

 

:doh:

[Svend_Dellepude]

That is good news indeed! :) The tide is turning!

[Drona]

Anyone tested this bug fix in the 1.5.4 openbeta?

[Lucas]

Anyone tested this bug fix in the 1.5.4 openbeta?

I would like to know this aswell. Been asking on the update release thread and nobody seems to have a clue.

 

Considering nothing about this was mentioned on the changelog I am very concerned if the flanker's A2A performance is still considerably neutered from it's SARH missiles not working properly.

[Svend_Dellepude]

SARH works much better now. :)

They will still catch chaff but not even close to what they did before.

I've been looking at tacview while testing a bit and the behaviour is much improved.

SARH can now wander from chaff to chaff, and even reaquire the target if it becomes visible again to the seeker.

Also they seems to maintain their energy better and not make erratic moves like before.

ARH seem to behave as stupid as always but I think they didn't get any love.

[Drona]

SARH works much better now. :)

They will still catch chaff but not even close to what they did before.

I've been looking at tacview while testing a bit and the behaviour is much improved.

SARH can now wander from chaff to chaff, and even reaquire the target if it becomes visible again to the seeker.

Also they seems to maintain their energy better and not make erratic moves like before.

ARH seem to behave as stupid as always but I think they didn't get any love.

 

Good to know. Thanks for letting us know.

[Lucas]

SARH works much better now. :)

They will still catch chaff but not even close to what they did before.

I've been looking at tacview while testing a bit and the behaviour is much improved.

SARH can now wander from chaff to chaff, and even reaquire the target if it becomes visible again to the seeker.

Also they seems to maintain their energy better and not make erratic moves like before.

ARH seem to behave as stupid as always but I think they didn't get any love.

That's excellent. Thanks!