Why aren't there today any real good joysticks?

[Sokol1_br]

Not always. Depends on how you'd like to program the mini-joystick in Control Manager.

 

What don't change the fact that this mini-stick is a hardware analog device (potentiometers) and so dont need "hack" like the X-55. Make axis send key press even the Freeware keymapers Autohotkey, Joy2Key... do. ;)

 

You've obviously never programmed in, or used Control Manager v4.55

 

In true I use - briefly - with Fighterstick (in IL-2'46), and what the soft did is basically the "make buttons send keypress"...

 

Maybe he can "open beer cans or fried sausages", but I don't need this in my games. :joystick:

 

I admit that I prefer set buttons in game GUI for do functions instead press keys to do same functions - but use macros in some cases - so I don't see programming software as decisive factor to buy joysticks - specially if use obsolete electronics... :music_whistling: :D

[531-Ghost]

Okay, let's see Autohotkey or Joy2Key do this:

 

// CMS Script File

// Gain and Response

// Trim & Scalling

//--------------------------------------------------------------

%define jsy js1.a3 // the input axes

%define trim_value a1 // the value of trim

%define dvy a2 // The deviation of the stick from the center.

%define mult3 a3 // multiplier for x^3

%define mult1 a5 // multiplier for x

%define ability_control b1 // The ability to control the stick

//

script

//--------------------------------------------------------------

if (firstscan) then

trim_value = 0; // the value of trim = 0

mult1 = 4; // multiplier for x. By default 1:4

ability_control = true; // the control stick is allowed

mult3 = 128*128*128; // the calculated ?ultiplier for x^3

endif

//

if( ability_control and (not js1.b2) ) then // if B2 is not pressed and allowed control...

// ... Calculated output value axis//

if ([jsy >127]) then // For the first half

dvy = jsy - 127; // The deviation of the stick from the center for the first half

cms.a1 = 127 + (dvy*dvy*dvy*(127-127/mult1+trim_value))/mult3 + dvy/mult1 + trim_value; // polinom

else // ...and for the second half...

dvy = 128 - jsy; // The deviation of the stick from the center for other side

cms.a1 = 127 - (dvy*dvy*dvy*(127-127/mult1-trim_value))/mult3 + dvy/mult1 - trim_value; // polinom

endif

endif

//-------------------------------------------------------------------

sequence // calculating the Trim values when the Button 2 is pressed

wait( js1.b2 ); // ...when the Button 2 is pressed

trim_value = cms.a1-127; // ...calculating the Trim values

ability_control = false; // Prohibit the control stick

endsequence //

// ...until...

if ([jsy==127] OR [jsy==128]) then ability_control = true; endif // ...stick to return to center

//--------------------------------------------------------------------

sequence// reset trim

wait( js1.b3 ); // ...when the Button 3 is pressed

trim_value = 0; // reset value of trim

endsequence

// Gain control----------------------------------------------------

sequence // Decrease gain to 1:1

wait( js1.b14 );

if ([mult1>1]) then

mult1=mult1/2;

endif

endsequence

//

sequence // Increase gain to 1:8

wait( js1.b16 );

if ([mult1<8]) then

mult1=mult1*2;

endif

endsequence

endscript // Successful flights!

 

Discuss... :)

[Sokol1_br]

And why I need this script - create "cheater" trims - or that:

 

 

Nice, but... needed?

 

:thumbup:

[531-Ghost]

Not that you NEED it, but, in Control Manager, it can be done ;)

[Elwood]

As my not happy at all with what the market can offer to us (just a fraction of the game industry's customer), I'm going to merge these two projects to create a compact, accurate and versatile joystick.

 

[ame=

]

[/ame]

 

[ame=

]

[/ame]

[RFC Rudel]

As my not happy at all with what the market can offer to us

 

If VKB dont fix your happines go see a doctor :helpsmilie:

[DD_Crash]

another home made project https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=171495

[Elwood]

If VKB dont fix your happines go see a doctor :helpsmilie:

 

There are just way too big!

I like to fly with the keyboard on the left hand, joy in the center (with my elbow on the desk) and mouse on the left.

With this configuration and FaceTrackNoIR I'm really relaxed and comfortable for hours.

[LC34]

Ohh man, am I the only one still flying the X-45. Man I remember when Il-2 first came out and I got this as a gift, good days. I could never get the profile settings down though. Lucky most games have a control options menu :)

[RFC Rudel]

Ohh man, am I the only one still flying the X-45. Man I remember when Il-2 first came out and I got this as a gift, good days. I could never get the profile settings down though. Lucky most games have a control options menu :)

 

 

il2? remember the janes ww2 figthers, that was a quality game.

[RFC Rudel]

There are just way too big!

I like to fly with the keyboard on the left hand, joy in the center (with my elbow on the desk) and mouse on the left.

With this configuration and FaceTrackNoIR I'm really relaxed and comfortable for hours.

 

 

VKB are simmers ok, they have lots of plans and products, but cant put all at the same time on the market.

 

And I am the most fan of: let user have options, and I fight VKB when I see then go away of that path (metal gimbal no twist? put an adaptor as option, because some don't like pedals or may think you force to buy pedals).

 

Never kill the options

 

 

The thing we need is a scalable system, one that provide upgrade paths and also spare parts.

 

Saitek was close to that but the time and later madcatz made it unreliable, but much can be learn from Saitek approach, specially the do and don't.

 

I want my cash to be invested not expended.

[Elwood]

The thing we need is a scalable system, one that provide upgrade paths and also spare parts.

 

Exactly :thumbup: the fact is that we all need an high quality basic stick where build things around.

[531-Ghost]

So let me get this straight;

 

For $301.00 USD I can get one of these joysticks:

 

 

(appears to be sold out at the moment) And for that same $301.00 USD or less I can get a full CH Products HOTAS to include pedals. Also, "scalable" depending on the stick choice: FighterStick, CombatStick, FlightStick. Sorry, I'll stick with what I've got. Thanks.

 

Not to mention, there is also a working forum for CH Products for programming tips, software issues, questions... all answered by a very robust community of CH Products users (to include myself).

Edited February 9, 2016 by 531-Ghost

[RFC Rudel]

So let me get this straight;

 

For $301.00 USD I can get one of these joysticks:

 

 

(appears to be sold out at the moment) And for that same $301.00 USD or less I can get a full CH Products HOTAS to include pedals. Also, "scalable" depending on the stick choice: FighterStick, CombatStick, FlightStick. Sorry, I'll stick with what I've got. Thanks.

 

Not to mention, there is also a working forum for CH Products for programming tips, software issues, questions... all answered by a very robust community of CH Products users (to include myself).

 

 

Sorry if VKB could not keep up with the demand, and we have a forum where a robust men like me can take your questions :D http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewforum.php?f=24

 

 

 

please man slow down......one thing is that I like VKB approach other is my comments on what we need in general.

 

and when I bash CH?

 

VKB provide a unique approach to controllers design based on layers and I like that.

 

I really like the pictures and how is described here http://dhrf01.wix.com/vkb-com-ar

[531-Ghost]

Bash all you'd like. I'm not bashing, just pointing out the obvious. I hope, in time they do, do well. It's all about the options. Brands that is. I as well many other CH Products users have taken it (bashing), for years. No worries, I know the *look* as well *feel* of CH Products is dated, and there hasn't been a new product since the Eclipse Yoke. I get it, wish it weren't so, but it is. What they do produce, they keep up with the demand, no problem. Still, I'd rather spend $301.00 USD on a full HOTAS + Pedals, your mileage may vary.

 

Nice discussion Forum there!

[RFC Rudel]

Bash all you'd like. I'm not bashing, just pointing out the obvious. I hope, in time they do, do well. It's all about the options. Brands that is. I as well many other CH Products users have taken it (bashing), for years. No worries, I know the *look* as well *feel* of CH Products is dated, and there hasn't been a new product since the Eclipse Yoke. I get it, wish it weren't so, but it is. What they do produce, they keep up with the demand, no problem. Still, I'd rather spend $301.00 USD on a full HOTAS + Pedals, your mileage may vary.

 

Nice discussion Forum there!

 

 

man I am on the side of products that help simmers, and have some preferences, but don't say I bash CH because I don't.

 

and I respect your taste and your support for the CH community, hope we can join ideas in the future.

 

RGDS

[313_Nevo]

Good discussion, many good points here. But particularly one I like:

Bucic:

There are no good sticks because the bad [cheap] ones still sell in tens of thousands.

 

And I have to agree here:

RFC Rudel:

The thing we need is a scalable system, one that provide upgrade paths and also spare parts.

 

Saitek was close to that but the time and later madcatz made it unreliable, but much can be learn from Saitek approach, specially the do and don't.

 

And if we combine these two ideas we can get one great solution, IMHO of course :)

 

What will be great?

- cheap starter joystick with pots (because cheap joys still sell in tens of thousands) *

- upgradable to magnetic sensors (because there are also avid simmers)

- detachable stick grip from the base (because people like micro-transactions and mods)

- 3in1 with lock on twist (because you know why)

- ...

 

Have a look on TM T.Flight Stick X [cheap], Saitek Pacific AV8R [detachable grip], TM 16000/Cobra M5 [mag sensors]. The price tag for all the mentioned is still really OK.

Combine all this into one single modular thing and I think there is a winner.

 

No matter which brand in the end (I like CHs, VKBs, TMs, Saiteks,...), but this is IMHO the perfect candidate to implement all above:

 

* dont forget about the pots starter version, grandpas/mas also want to buy joysticks for their grandkids ;)

[dburne]

Too bad TM never implemented additional grip designs, certainly with the Cougar and then the Warthhog with detachable grips, it would have been an easy thing to do. I guess the volume that would be required for the tooling is probably not there.

 

I absolutely love my Warthog setup, especially with Sahaj's extension. Nice additional feature with his extension, is I can twist the grip to whatever orientation I prefer, just by simply loosening the locking collar, twisting it slightly where I want, and retightening. All done by hand and very quickly.

[531-Ghost]

man I am on the side of products that help simmers, and have some preferences, but don't say I bash CH because I don't.

 

and I respect your taste and your support for the CH community, hope we can join ideas in the future.

 

RGDS

 

Sorry, now that I look at your statement I may have read it and understood it wrong.

 

Overall, I think we can agree options are out there. Here I am still flying the *friendly* skies with my now 16 year old FighterStick, still performing as it did when I brought it home from the factory (CH Products). Yes, that's where I purchased it from. ;)

[LC34]

il2? remember the janes ww2 figthers, that was a quality game.

 

I never had Janes, I had European Air War. LOVED that game. Even the campaign to me was very well done. You had the BoB, 1943 and end war I believe. Sparked my interest in flight sims and military history.

[aeliusg]

Big thread for all of a week's posting. If OP is still reading this, the G940 can be as good as the FFB2 if you adjust the force settings to a proper range. I have a G940 and the FFB2 sitting around. Adjust the force feedback setting in the driver so that the G940 feels about as strong as the FFB2, and the two are quite comparable. I also modded the bearings on the G940, but that was a long while ago, and it was before I figured to lower the motor strength. Plastic joysticks are not meant to be used with such force as is default with the G940. FYI, the FFB2 also has a grip sensor as well. This is meant to prolong the life of the motor mechanisms and circuitry - one can imagine someone who does not take care of their toys very well and the impact such individuals would have on their bottom line with warranty costs.

[Bolelas]

I never had a realy good joystick, only cheap crap. But i had feel good joysticks on the store shelvs, and one thing i also complaint about the expensive ones is the "central lock"

 

It is dificult to make small ajustments around the center (that is the way i think, i may be wrong).

That huge spring just make us do alot of force to bring it out of the center, usualy more force aplied than what is needed for a small correction, and the result is not good.

 

My plan is try to build a joystick with 4 springs. It is very smooth around the center (i have already made a test, although not connected to PC)

[RFC Rudel]

Sorry, now that I look at your statement I may have read it and understood it wrong.

 

Overall, I think we can agree options are out there. Here I am still flying the *friendly* skies with my now 16 year old FighterStick, still performing as it did when I brought it home from the factory (CH Products). Yes, that's where I purchased it from. ;)

 

I also put to much passion, so I apologize.

 

in other parts of the worlds a x55 is 700US and that's a immoral amount of money because you income in US is very low.....so is a big issue if you end with up with a bad device.

Plus CH and others quality firms are not available here, other thing that I want to change getting VKB over here.

 

My dream will be that the layers or modules become a standard, so you could choose your devices like you choose pc components

 

 

Saitek modular rack and instruments where victim of the time where lcd where not that cheap, touch screens where to much money and also they went cheap on size.

 

A touch screen rack system with smartphone integration and availability to attach to monitors, throttles or even stand alone will be really nice.

 

with the proper accessories to put on the touchscreens vessels like switches etc.

 

 

Community is the core of any project and that's why we must agree on disagree and work together

 

 

 

Also I want modular throttles, want to change from ww2 style grip to a x52 style to a a10 style but whit the same foundation of mechanics and electronics.

 

And a standardized electronics will mean standardized software development

Edited February 10, 2016 by RFC Rudel

[RFC Rudel]

I never had Janes, I had European Air War. LOVED that game. Even the campaign to me was very well done. You had the BoB, 1943 and end war I believe. Sparked my interest in flight sims and military history.

 

 

the quality was great, videos of the planes, videos of the aces, the music...

 

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

and browse some others videos of the game.

[Elwood]

I also put to much passion, so I apologize.

 

in other parts of the worlds a x55 is 700US and that's a immoral amount of money because you income in US is very low.....so is a big issue if you end with up with a bad device.

Plus CH and others quality firms are not available here, other thing that I want to change getting VKB over here.

 

My dream will be that the layers or modules become a standard, so you could choose your devices like you choose pc components

 

 

Saitek modular rack and instruments where victim of the time where lcd where not that cheap, touch screens where to much money and also they went cheap on size.

 

A touch screen rack system with smartphone integration and availability to attach to monitors, throttles or even stand alone will be really nice.

 

with the proper accessories to put on the touchscreens vessels like switches etc.

 

 

Community is the core of any project and that's why we must agree on disagree and work together

 

 

 

Also I want modular throttles, want to change from ww2 style grip to a x52 style to a a10 style but whit the same foundation of mechanics and electronics.

 

And a standardized electronics will mean standardized software development

Agreed. As an electronic hobbyist can't agree more.

Standard USB board means teensy,arduino, a more powerful Raspberry Zero or custom boards with opensource firmware?