Tanker refuelling questions?

[bunraku]

Hi

I am about to try my first refuelling in the Hog(Or any plane for that matter) and have some questions.

1) Is there a certain height you are supposed to fly below the tanker? I know it won’t be exact, but a ballpark figure for say 50ft for example and then fine tune after that. So tanker is 15,000 ft and I should fly at 14950ft for example as I close.

2) What is the length of the boom? Does anyone know as this will have a bearing on question 1

3) Why the different colours on the boom? Are they just for visual reference/warning or do they have meaning?

4) And lastly is it all trim and throttle to fine tune the pitch or should there be stick movement too?

Thanks very much.

[j.sabo12]

Fly under and behind the tanker, and slowly begin to get closer once you have permission. On the bottom of the KC-135 you have two rows of lights which show you how high/low and forward/back you are. Aim to keep the light in each one in the middle. The ideal position of the boom is when you are on the green. Orange is fine, but red means that you're too close to the tanker and risk collision or too far and risk disconnection. Try to be in one spot as the boom operator in DCS is fairly slow and it takes him a while to connect. This is possibly the most frustrating part. Once you are connected, keep the boom in the green and the lights in the middle. Hope this helps at least a little bit. As far as stick movements go, I have my axes curved to about 22, so fine stick movements are fine.

[sLYFa]

On the bottom of the KC-135 you have two rows of lights which show you how high/low and forward/back you are. Aim to keep the light in each one in the middle.

All that only goes for refueling in the F-15, where the AR port is slightly behind the cockpit and you cant monitor the boom properly. In the A-10, the AR port is directly infront of the cockpit, so you have the boom in sight at all times and dont need the lights.

[Gliptal]

Once connected, try to anticipate the throttle movements.

 

- If you find yourself lagging behind the boom with your adjustaments it's probable you'll end up dealing with the throttle version of PIO and either disconnect or crash into the boom itself. In this case it's better to just gently let it disconnect and go for another try.

- If you're just on time with your adjustaments you can make it work, but you may end up making large changes at a very fast pace, ending up with a more difficult refueling process than it should.

- Ideally, you should be making your throttle changes before they are needed, it's quite hard to explain it just with words. Assume you're closing in and the boom is shifting from the green zone to the yellow zone: you should give less power, but don't wait for the boom to be back in the green before you set the power back up a bit. Anticipate the need.

 

You should move the stick as less as possible. Make sure you're trimmed well, or you will end up with PIO.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Gliptal

[bunraku]

Thanks for all the replies. As I have the Warthog HOTAS is it recommended to change the curvature?

 

Thanks again

[SimFreak]

Page 493 and 652 of manual may have some good info.

[WildBillKelsoe]

most importantly, don't give up, and the more connects, the more it become second nature. Just don't chase the boom

[Gliptal]

Thanks for all the replies. As I have the Warthog HOTAS is it recommended to change the curvature?

 

Thanks again

With the Warthog you should just keep it linear IMHO.

[SharpeXB]

Everything you need to know and practice is here

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/208371/

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/208372/

 

Once connected, try to anticipate the throttle movements.

Yes, that's the key. You need to practice enough that you are anticipating control movements and not just reacting. If you only react your input is too late and you will oscillate. Plan on a week or more of solid practice :joystick:

Edited February 23, 2016 by SharpeXB

[bunraku]

Everything you need to know and practice is here

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/208371/

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/208372/

 

That's actually what I am doing tonight. Just passed the Maple Flag basic training and now on to advanced mission number 1.

[bunraku]

With the Warthog you should just keep it linear IMHO.

 

 

As in don't touch the settings?

[SharpeXB]

That's actually what I am doing tonight. Just passed the Maple Flag basic training and now on to advanced mission number 1.

Those are awesome missions :thumbup:

Certainly the AAR is about the most difficult part.

[QuiGon]

One thing that really helped me to learn AAR is to "Walk the Throttles". That means, that you don't latch your throttles together but use them independently by moving one throttle a bit and then follow with the other. This way you have twice the precision in throttle control than usally which makes speed adjustements way easier.

[Phantom_Mark]

I have had a quick go a couple of times, bloody hell it really isn't easy !!

 

I have always been quite ok with the basket refuelling systems, this seems like 100000x harder tho :D :joystick:

[Gliptal]

As in don't touch the settings?

As in no curve whatsoever. It's a debated point though, seen how the real stick has is a much longer lever than what you have with the default base (assuming you're not using any extensions).

 

Some say that a mild curve helps in retaining the precision of a long lever. Personally I prefer the consistency of a linear behaviour.

[bunraku]

Bl00dy annoying!! It is hard as hell. Not sure if I am chasing the boom, too low or too high. 2nd attempt and I know it's early days. Please click on the link and critique away!! :smartass:

 

[Gliptal]

Bl00dy annoying!! It is hard as hell. Not sure if I am chasing the boom, too low or too high. 2nd attempt and I know it's early days. Please click on the link and critique away!! :smartass:

 

Can't find the link.

[bunraku]

Sorry

 

Try this.

 

https://youtu.be/Ke_qQBD20yE

[Gliptal]

Is it only 1 minute long or is Youtube still processing the video?

[jubus]

Comments about the video:

 

1) The closer you get to the tanker, the less you should move the throttles. There is a magic throttle setting, which keeps you at about the same velocity as the tanker. After you find this setting, trim the aircraft and try to nudge the throttle a tiiiny bit forward for a second or less, and bring the throttle back to the magic throttle setting. After a few seconds, the plane responds and starts moving forward towards the tanker. Anticipation and patience are the keys! It's all about nudging the throttle and stick, waiting for effect, and nudging again.

 

2) As was said, do not chase the boom! Keep your eyes locked on the tanker and try to keep the tanker at the same position on the screen all the time. It may help if you pan the view up a bit. Use your peripheral vision or take quick glances to keep track of the boom.

 

Here are also some reference pics just before and after contact inside the cockpit https://imgur.com/a/IZjCz

Edited February 24, 2016 by jubus

[Xavven]

Sorry

 

Try this.

 

https://youtu.be/Ke_qQBD20yE

 

Keep an eye on your TVV (total velocity vector). In your video, as you were approaching the tanker, your TVV was above the horizon line, meaning you were gaining altitude. Keep your TVV on the horizon line.

 

You might want to slow your approach a bit when you get close. I like to hold a position about 20 ft from the boom and fly formation for a few seconds just to make sure I'm in control, then I use jubus' method to approach slowly. Each nudge of the throttle up is like taking a step forward, and each nudge of the throttle back is like taking a step back.

 

Also keep in mind that when you increase throttle, even for 1 second as jubus was explaining, you will tend to gain altitude, and vice versa. Counter this by nudging the stick forward for a half second when you increase throttle, and vice versa.

[bunraku]

OK thanks. The main thing I struggled with was keeping level. As I slowed or sped up then of course the trim went and of course I'd adjust, but it just seemed like too many adjustments.

[bzhnono]

Adjust your trim one and for all when in pre-contact, flying formation with the tanker.

Then don't touch it anymore, just push a bit on the stick at each acceleration and vice versa :)

[Frank00]

Everything you need to know and practice is here

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/208371/

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/208372/

 

 

Yes, that's the key. You need to practice enough that you are anticipating control movements and not just reacting. If you only react your input is too late and you will oscillate. Plan on a week or more of solid practice :joystick:

 

The mission does not appear in the mission menu :/

[NeilWillis]

The missions in question have a license, so you need to purchase them from Maple Flag. They cost very little, and are definitely a good investment - as are all their training/testing campaigns.