1.5.3 Mig15 damage model

[zxarkov]

As I updated my client DCS software to the newest 1.5.3 version, changes were made to the Mig-15 damage model.

 

Before I could down a Mig with 100-200 rounds of .50 cal and now I just had a dogfight where I had over 430+ 50 cal hits and the thing kept flying like the terminator. I saved the trk file if I can find it.

 

Anyone else noticing this?

[Reflected]

I noticed it too. I know .50 cals shouldn't be too effective against a MIG, but right now I fly up their tailpipe, and I can fire over half my ammo into them and they just fly on.

[Nooch]

Actually it has been like that since months. It's just that sometimes you get lucky and a quick burst does the job. But 90% of the time you have to literally unload all your ammo for it to go down. AFAIK it has nothing to do with the new damage model.

[Reflected]

Looking at Korea guncams, I have yet to come accross one where the Sabre pilot sits behind a MIG for 20 secnds, pumping .50 cal bullets into him before anything happens...

 

Most of the time a 3-4 second burst gets them smoking at least. Not in game though.

[zxarkov]

While I do not doubt the pre 1.5.3 damage modeling is a bit off(WIP), I am fairly certain whatever changes were made it makes the Mig15 even more .50cal resistant.

 

I play one of the F-86 mission all time were you start behind a flight of Migs climbing, prior to updating 1.5.3 I never had 400+ hits without a kill.

[Buzzles]

Are we talking about online vs players or are we talking vs AI?

 

If the latter, pretty much pointless talking about it as the AI use an SFM and cheat. This affects every AI aircraft. Redoing damage models is already on ED's list.

 

If it's the former, then there's indeed a problem.

[zxarkov]

It vs AI only. I have not tested online. I am glad to hear that ED is aware of it but for the moment, I do not fly the F86 awaiting further changes/updates.

[scotth6]

I have noticed this when flying the Sabre against the Mig-15 for a while. It is definitely harder to down a Mig with a Sabre than vice versa. I figured it was just the .50 cal (like mosquito bites compared to the Mig's arsenal) and also the impact point of the rounds. It is a totally different story when flying the Mig against the Sabre (as is to be expected with 20mm and 37mm cannons).

 

I couldn't say if it's realistic or not the way it is, but the impact points of the rounds will make a difference if the damage model is correct. I've been hit many times by AI Sabres and kept flying, usually with a few holes in the wings and cockpit, and often losing fuel or hydraulic fluid. I have had to land a few times wheels up due to damage. If you concentrate fire around one critical point when flying the Sabre against the Mig, you will down it quicker than if you are less accurate.

 

Cheers,

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

Yes. But if you start shooting at the hull of an aircraft from exactly 6 o'clock, this is not very effective. Because an aircraft from either 6 or 12 o'clock is a very small target. And lots of your bullets will miss because of dispersion and weaving about just a fraction of a tiny bit will cause your bullets to pass the target without touching it. It has been like that with other sims as well, not only DCS.

 

Instead, try coming in from the side or better, from above or below so you can shoot its wing. It is very effective. I can see the value of a target flying straight and level to test your gunnery or other parameters, but shooting at it from a straight 6 position is not very effective at all. And yes, of course the MiG guns are far more effective. They are more powerfull. 23mm vs 12.7mm. In a one second burst, the MiG can shoot far more 'metal' to the target then the Sabre. Not counting for the explosive effect of its grenades wich the Sabre has not. But then again, a Sabre is far more manouvrable. You can test it out with a mission where you have a Sabre dogfighting a MiG. Try that one a few times. Then, you edit the mission and swap-out the Sabre for the MiG, keeping all other parameters the same. THen you'll notice how much better the Sabre really is.

 

Anyways, got a vid to prove it that. First the track, it is flown in the 1.5.3 stable version. (not beta) I was a bit wasteful with ammunition. But then again, I only had one MiG as opponent.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uku8mlkdds884if/MiG-15%20shotdown.trk?dl=0

 

and a vid for easier viewing. This is basically the intercept quick mission where the AN-30 is replaced by a MiG-15 (average AI) Just to test out the gunsight and gun effectivness.

 

[WinterH]

With AI aircraft, MiG-15 in particular, my experience is a burst of hits hitting more or less same area usually works, where individual hits with your entire ammo load may not. Yesterday I fought AI MiG-15 in F-86 after sometime, when I get close and hit him with about half a second burst he usually went down just fine. I downed it multiple times that way with relative ease. But on another case with hitting the MiG with many snapshots, I ran through my entire ammo and he was still flying.

 

My gripe with AI MiG-15 is rather how much UFO like it flies on skill level High or above. It almost floats like a baloon on top of its climbs, and it's pilot has no concept of g-loc. On top of these, he use the Force from star wars universe to take sniping potshots of 37mm doom from ridiculous angles and distances. These combined, it gets diminishingly difficult to land that burst on him, at least for me. This is one of few aircraft in DCS that is so different between High and lower skill levels. Below that it more or less a walk in park, but High is an excercise in frustration for me.