Ready to get serious about Flight Sims

[Blackbeagle]

OK. Just bought Mig21. It's the first full price purchase I've made for a video game since Battlefield 3. I'm ready to get serious. I want to learn how to play this game and do it right. But I don't want to spend $5000 on a set up.

 

First, my computer is 6 year old IbuyPower PC: Core i7, 12gb RAM, GTX480 Nvidia GPU, running Windows 7 HP. I have a Saitek AV8r-01, which seems like I bought 20 years ago. I have two 27" monitors side by side. Here's what I'd like to know.

 

1. What is the best joystick for this game? Best bang for the buck please. I don't have a lot of desk space so I can't afford to do a 3 piece set. But what would you guys recommend?

2. How can I get one of those devices where you can freely look around? I don't know the term. But using the hat switch is so amateurish. I use the Hat Switch now and then press one of the buttons on my Saitek to center again. I want something more smooth, just like some of the tutorials I see here.

3. Would you all recommend I go with like a 34" monitor? Can I make good with the two 27"s I have now (even though they are different brands)?

4. Do I need a new video card? Run it at a higher resolution with two monitors with a big black monitor edge in the middle?

 

Thank you so much.

[Hook47]

OK. Just bought Mig21. It's the first full price purchase I've made for a video game since Battlefield 3. I'm ready to get serious. I want to learn how to play this game and do it right. But I don't want to spend $5000 on a set up.

 

First, my computer is 6 year old IbuyPower PC: Core i7, 12gb RAM, GTX480 Nvidia GPU, running Windows 7 HP. I have a Saitek AV8r-01, which seems like I bought 20 years ago. I have two 27" monitors side by side. Here's what I'd like to know.

 

1. What is the best joystick for this game? Best bang for the buck please. I don't have a lot of desk space so I can't afford to do a 3 piece set. But what would you guys recommend?

2. How can I get one of those devices where you can freely look around? I don't know the term. But using the hat switch is so amateurish. I use the Hat Switch now and then press one of the buttons on my Saitek to center again. I want something more smooth, just like some of the tutorials I see here.

3. Would you all recommend I go with like a 34" monitor? Can I make good with the two 27"s I have now (even though they are different brands)?

4. Do I need a new video card? Run it at a higher resolution with two monitors with a big black monitor edge in the middle?

 

Thank you so much.

 

Welcome to the sim! The MiG 21 is a very challenging but rewarding plane to fly, good choice! Be ready to stick with it as after your first landing attempt you'll be wondering what the heck you've got yourself into! It will all be worth it.

 

Here are a few brief answers to your questions

 

1. I think the all around consensus on flight sticks is the HOTAS WARTHOG by Thrustmaster. It is a copy of an A-10C Stick and throttle, and is wonderful with the A-10 module, but lends itself incredibly well to all DCS modules. I own one and swear by it. They run around 250 for the stick only, and 399+ For the stick and throttle. It's steep, I know, but worth it IMHO. Under that you will have other options like the Saitek/Madcatz X series (sadly that company is on hard times) and the Thrustmaster and CH product stick lines. Check reviews and remember you will get what you pay for. I know you said you don't want a three piece set up but I HIGHLY encourage a stick, throttle and ruder pedal set up for the proper experience. I use a pair of CH pro pedals.

 

2. You can get a head tracking device from Natural point. It is called a TrackIR. I use the current production model, the TrackIR5. They run about 150 but I cannot recommend it enough for sim flying unless you later decide to go with the upcoming VR technology.

 

3. This depends on your intent. I would probably recommend a bigger monitor than that for a good experience, but you can certainly start there. Are you planning on trying to split the sim between the two monitors, or use one for instruments or checklists and the other for your view? Lots of ways to go here. I currently use a 40 inch Samsung as my main display, and a second monitor for avoinic export of radar displays and such. Works very well!

 

4. It does sound like your GPU is a bit old. I think DCS world 1.5 and 2.0 recommend a 700 series Nvidea or higher which can be had pretty cheap now, but check the minimum and recommended specs on the DCS home page to get a better idea. I'll differ to better GPU experts on this point.

 

Again welcom aboard, and keep the questions coming as long as you need! Send me a PM if you would like to jump on multiplayer sometime and get an introduction to the MiG or the sim in general.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Hook47

[FeistyLemur]

The hotas warthog is nice but only if you're comfortable tinkering with electonics. You pretty much have to be able to tear the stick apart to fix and maintain it. I wouldn't buy one unless you're prepared to do that.

 

The CH products set is pretty highly regarded I think. They've been around forever and are very reliable. Probably the stick I'm most interested in is the upcoming gunfighter by VKB. Sadly they are really hard to get, and based in Russia.

 

If it were me right now. I would wait to see what pascal brings for performance in a few months as far as video cards go. And probably would be looking at that upcoming ROG 34 inch curved ultrawide, having seen a video recently of someone using an ultrawide it looked awesome.

 

Trackir with the trackclip pro I highly recommend. The trackclip pro gets a lot of negative reviews for durability but I love it, and wish I had bought it sooner.

 

Mig 21 is a great first module to start DCS with. It was the module that brought me to DCS as well. Roughly 1500 dollars into stuff just for flight sims at this point, so you could say it's easy to spend to much.

Edited March 12, 2016 by FeistyLemur

[WinterH]

Your CPU clock speed is important for DCS, more so than multicore capabilities. Also, since 1.5 update with new grapgics engine, it requires a Direct X 11 compatible GPU to work properly. So I think you may have to upgrade your system.

 

As for the sticks, mostly what people said. If you don't want spend too much on your controller and also don't want to space up for a big stick / throttle / pedal combo, Warthog is already out. Warthog doesn't have twist rudder (top of the line sticks tend not to have it) so you would have to buy a seperate rudder pedal set on top of Warthog. I think same goes for CH sticks. X-55 may fit your bill but people's opinion on it seem mixed. Either with pedals or twist sticks, rudder control is fairly important for MiG.

[Hook47]

The hotas warthog is nice but only if you're comfortable tinkering with electonics. You pretty much have to be able to tear the stick apart to fix and maintain it. I wouldn't buy one unless you're prepared to do that.

 

The CH products set is pretty highly regarded I think. They've been around forever and are very reliable. Probably the stick I'm most interested in is the upcoming gunfighter by VKB. Sadly they are really hard to get, and based in Russia.

 

If it were me right now. I would wait to see what pascal brings for performance in a few months as far as video cards go. And probably would be looking at that upcoming ROG 34 inch curved ultrawide, having seen a video recently of someone using an ultrawide it looked awesome.

 

Trackir with the trackclip pro I highly recommend. The trackclip pro gets a lot of negative reviews for durability but I love it, and wish I had bought it sooner.

 

Mig 21 is a great first module to start DCS with. It was the module that brought me to DCS as well. Roughly 1500 dollars into stuff just for flight sims at this point, so you could say it's easy to spend to much.

 

All good points, but I disagree with The remark about needing to know electronics to own a Warthog. Not the case. It will last every bit as long as any other stick with no maintenance besides keeping it clean. The very fact that you can crack it open to fix it years down the road due to its high quality components only speaks to its value, as a cheaper stick this would not be possible.

[some1]

As good as the Warthog joystick is, it is the biggest joystick out there and you also need rudder pedals for it. So it is the exact opposite of what you want if you have limited space on desk.

Of course you can also buy extender, and a stand like in this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2307564

 

That being said, there is not much choice when it comes to good quality single piece joysticks. There's Thustmaster T.16000 and VKB mamba (not sure if still available).

 

MiG-21 may not be the best aircraft for a beginner, it's a bit like buying a racing game and jumping straight into the cockpit of the most difficult F1 car to drive. Plus it still has some little issues that will leave you scratching your head.

[Alfredson007]

DCS planes generally requires(benefits) having lots of physical buttons. HOTAS system such as X-55 saitek etc are best for these naturally, but they are expensive and require lots of desk space and especially the throttle unit may be prone to move if not screwed in.

 

If you feel you can handle the planes pretty well with the current saitek stick, i suggest you familirize yourself to the game with it with limited shooting, then you can get a better picture what kind of stick / throttle unit you want.

 

If you decide to go with low budget route, i'd recommend either Logitech 3D pro or Thrustmaster T16000M. L3D has older, less precise traditional potentiometer-system, the t16000m has more modern hall-effect sensors that in theory last longer and are superaccurate, i have had both sticks and it really makes the difference.

 

Logitech 3D has better layout and more buttons in the stick part, and a bit more ergonomic, but lacks the accuracy and the smoothness of t16000m. Both are good sticks and should not be too expensive. I prefer the T16000m but the L3D has its benefits.

 

Device for looking around as said before is called TrackIR. I have it, but you do not need to horry with this one especially with Jet Fighters in mind. It's useful but it's most helpful with WW2 style fighting where distances are shorter etc. It also requires a little time to getting used to. In the end it is very good add to flight simming, especially in combat sims, but you can practice without it easily. You can look with mouse and with hat in DCS, both works pretty well too.

[Voodoo109]

http://adversarypros.proboards.com/

 

New group that started up just last weekend mostly for the MiG-21. :)

[Sokol1_br]

 

1. I think the all around consensus on flight sticks is the HOTAS WARTHOG .... They run around 250 for the stick only, and 399+ For the stick and throttle.

 

Don't forget to add to this prices ~120$ (CH PRO pedal) to 550$ (Slaw Viper RX) for the needed rudder pedal. :music_whistling:

 

In between you have the CH combo (stick+throttle+pedal) for ~360$

 

Or bellow, with "twist rudder".

 

Saitek X-55 ~200$

Saitek X-52 PRO ~160

Saitek X-52 ~150

 

In "entry level" range the only that worth consider is Tm T.16000M just for dont use pot, but HALL sensor in X, Y axis.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

YES, the Warthog stick is good. But it is twice as expensive as SAITEK controllers wich are also good. I can't vouch for the X55, I hear mixed quality issues with it. I would go for the X52pro if you don't want to open-up your wallet too much but still want to get into simming a bit more serious. It is a great stick, I used it for years without problems.

 

Your vid-card might need upgrading a bit. Even a 200 or 300$ upgrade will let you fly this sim in HD quality wich is good. I am not sure how you want to use the second monitor. But if you want to have an ultra wide display, placing those monitors side by side, you definetly need a new vid-card. And you have a 'bar' in the middle where the two monitors touch wich is very annoying in a COMBAT flightsim since that is usually the place where the gunsight is. Making aiming weapons very difficult. Anyways, a single 27" monitor on HD quality is good.

[Frostie]

As far as limiting to just a HOTAS without rudder pedals then I guess the real choice is between the Saitek X-55 or X-52 pro, both have twist stick rudders and both do the job admirably and can be considered bang for buck.

 

I've owned both and while I preferred the X-52 with yourself not owning one previously getting the newer X-55 won't disappoint you. The X-55 looks and feels better than the X-52 imo but lacks some of the X-52s functionality such as a dedicated software shift pinky, superior mouse stick and better placed HAT switches. But like I said not owning an X-52 will not make this such a realisation.

[FeistyLemur]

The warthog is great but I really can't stress enough that you need to gut it and re-grease it / polish the plastic parts to get the most out of it. And putting at least a 10cm extension on it should almost be considered a must. Which adds to the cost unless you make your own.

 

And of course it tends to be a gateway drug in the controller world. Because it has no twist grip, you're going to need pedals, and the throttle you might as well have too. Then you need a way to mount it all and use it. The end result though is far more rewarding than playing with a 50 dollar stick.

 

I know someone who has used an x52 for ages and makes due with the twist rudder and he's perfectly satisfied with it as well.

[Hadwell]

As far as limiting to just a HOTAS without rudder pedals then I guess the real choice is between the Saitek X-55 or X-52 pro, both have twist stick rudders and both do the job admirably and can be considered bang for buck.

 

I've owned both and while I preferred the X-52 with yourself not owning one previously getting the newer X-55 won't disappoint you. The X-55 looks and feels better than the X-52 imo but lacks some of the X-52s functionality such as a dedicated software shift pinky, superior mouse stick and better placed HAT switches. But like I said not owning an X-52 will not make this such a realisation.

 

While the mouse nipple thing doesn't work well, and the slider is actually just a button, the x55 has 2 more axis and way WAY more buttons than the x52 and the x55 and x52 have more axises than the warthog, though I think only the x55 has more buttons than it

Edited March 13, 2016 by Hadwell

[TickJackson]

Hey Guys,

 

Its great to devote most of your attention to one module. I really enjoy the Mig 21. Its a real challenge and using weapons doesn't take too long to get the hang of. I have a commercial pilot certificate with instrument and multi engine add ons. landing this thing is the hardest aircraft I've flown both in sims and real life. Multi player can be frustrating sometimes with half of the people launching aim120s from f15s, but i just recently shot my first f15 down last week (he was out of missiles). It drawbacks compared to more advanced fighters are what I think makes this plane so much fun to fly. In conclusion this is an aircraft that must be respected while flown, once you learn its strengths and it weaknesses it is a formidable enemy.

As far as hardware is concerned I actually use a 13" macbook pro with windows 10 on boot camp. Im very pleased with the performance, i even plug in my old 33" tv as the monitor with no drop in frame rate. I also use a cheap joystick.

Enjoy the mig 21, don't give up on it. It takes some work but its worth it. It takes a real pilot to get in knife fighting range and send a heat seeker up his tail pipe. look for me on multiplayer TickJackson

 

Happy Flying.

[313_Nevo]

best simple joystick (no HOTAS) is imho already mentioned TM T.16000M. Or wait for the GLADIATOR from VKB, slightly higher price is expected but you know for what it is in this case I think.

 

and I dont have problem with Aim120s, I fly only M2k vs M21 servers ;)