Su-27. Extreme G-loads... G=?

[Falcon_S]

From last update...

Su-27. Extreme G-loads will lead to destruction of airframe

 

I can only say: DCS Su27 is joke after last update.

 

Broke wing at 3G? :doh:

 

I do not have the strength to say anything more...

 

EDIT:

 

I was wrong.

The apology and explanation here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2738683&postcount=16

Tacview-20160408-203138-DCS.txt.rar

Edited April 9, 2016 by Falcon_S

[rami80]

The instant you hit 12G it breaks apart. Did you have anything loaded up?and how much fuel?

[RS11]

Shame...

This is discrimination against Russian aircraft

[Falcon_S]

...Did you have anything loaded up?and how much fuel?

 

This is a fighting aircraft, not a fragile umbrella. Perhaps it is best to fly without missiles and to much fuel? Or not fly over 0.5M?

[Ironhand]

This is a fighting aircraft, not a fragile umbrella. Perhaps it is best to fly without missiles and to much fuel? Or not fly over 0.5M?

The first unknown here was your gross weight, since that has an effect on how many Gs you can safely pull and for how long. Couldn't really tell from the Tacview. On the first flight you pulled high Gs several times before breaking apart. Although there was a later where you came apart with a high of 3.x Gs. But, since the situation seemed to get worse over time, I wonder if there is persistence of fatigue--either by design or by accident--since you were recovering and flying again rather than starting completely new?

[Vitormouraa]

Before this update you could pull like 30G without problems. Just using the 'S' key. Now it is so much realistic, I wish I had that modeled for MiG-21bis, Sabre and etc..

[Stuge]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't :) Always someone will be unhappy but...

 

the general direction should be towards realism so.. good job ED!

[rrohde]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't :) Always someone will be unhappy but...

 

the general direction should be towards realism so.. good job ED!

 

Yeah, so long as it's based on reality it's all good (and not some concession for multiplayer reasons).

[DarkFire]

Before this update you could pull like 30G without problems. Just using the 'S' key. Now it is so much realistic, I wish I had that modeled for MiG-21bis, Sabre and etc..

 

This. I'm sure that eventually load damage will be modelled for all the DCS-level modules.

[Ironhand]

According to the real world manual, max operation G-loading is limited to 8.0 Gs at M .85 at a weight of 21,400 kg. Just made a quick flight with that configuration (33% fuel and 6 R-73s) and was able to pull between 8-10.5 Gs repeatedly without repercussions until I ran low on fuel.

 

So aircraft weight definitely comes into play now. If we are above the appropriate operational weight for the Gs you are trying to pull, we will now pay a price. Hope to have a bit of time tomorrow to play with this more.

[DarkFire]

According to the real world manual, max operation G-loading is limited to 8.0 Gs at M .85 at a weight of 21,400 kg. Just made a quick flight with that configuration (33% fuel and 6 R-73s) and was able to pull between 8-10.5 Gs repeatedly without repercussions until I ran low on fuel.

 

So aircraft weight definitely comes into play now. If we are above the appropriate operational weight for the Gs you are trying to pull, we will now pay a price. Hope to have a bit of time tomorrow to play with this more.

 

Is there a table in the manual that shows max G against aircraft gross weight? Any chance you could post the info here?

[Winston60]

Sucks now, too fragile for a simulator environment. ED please balance this out for playability vs realism and check your implementation of whatever specs you are trying to model. Can this be the proper limits? IMHO this "feature" needs attention.

 

If you insist this is right, you should provide us with a confirmed and valid weight/speed/G limit chart.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Winston60

[=DECOY=]

I think it's great . I used the su last night and yes the wings did snap off when using the good S button.

 

BUT

 

I feel it's more realistic and less like a ARCADE sim

 

 

Great job ED:)

[Texac]

Isn't it better to fly more realistic so that you need to know what to do and what not?

 

Flying an airplane is probably not that easy that's why I like it. I just can't wait to fly the Su-33 with it's PFM.

[Tello]

Flanker just got more hardcore! I support every move towards more realistic flight parameters. But come with some numbers and documentation to prove your point and create bug report instead of tacview and a rant, if you think you know more than ED! :D

[Falcon_S]

I think I reacted sharply. I am not at all thinking about all the elements that cause cracking wings ... Surprised, I thought it was impossible and i came here i hit my stupid reaction. I am a supporter of realism and I must say that the ED did a great thing with this.

 

The first unknown here was your gross weight, since that has an effect on how many Gs you can safely pull and for how long. Couldn't really tell from the Tacview. On the first flight you pulled high Gs several times before breaking apart. Although there was a later where you came apart with a high of 3.x Gs. But, since the situation seemed to get worse over time, I wonder if there is persistence of fatigue--either by design or by accident--since you were recovering and flying again rather than starting completely new?

 

You're right!

 

My plane in tacview (first post attachment) is standard payload + 75% of fuel = 27303kg and that is weight/foce=245727 N at 9G ... so, over the the recommended values from the Su27SK manual (attachment). And yes, persistence of fatigue is here i think. :thumbup:

 

Ok, good. Things in DCS are changed and more realistic now... many sim "aces" will be shocked :D but form now fights and flights at high speed + full weight are the past.

 

One more time, good job ED and my apology - we waiting to see this at F15C ASAP :D

Edited April 9, 2016 by Falcon_S

[Ironhand]

I think I reacted sharply. I am not at all thinking about all the elements that cause cracking wings ... Surprised, I thought it was impossible and i came here i hit my stupid reaction. I am a supporter of realism and I must say that the ED did a great thing with this.

 

 

 

You're right!

 

My plane in tacview (first post attachment) is standard payload + 75% of fuel = 27303kg and that is weight/foce=245727 N at 9G ... so, over the the recommended values from the Su27SK manual (attachment). And yes, persistence of fatigue is here i think. :thumbup:

 

Ok, good. Things in DCS are changed and more realistic now... many sim "aces" will be shocked :D but form now fights and flights at high speed + full weight are the past.

 

One more time, good job ED and my apology - we waiting to see this at F15C ASAP :D

Translating the pertinent part your attachment:

 

 

 

Darkfire, this is what I was referring to in my previous statement.

 

Rich

[Vitormouraa]

Sucks now, too fragile for a simulator environment. ED please balance this out for playability vs realism and check your implementation of whatever specs you are trying to model. Can this be the proper limits? IMHO this "feature" needs attention.

 

If you insist this is right, you should provide us with a confirmed and valid weight/speed/G limit chart.

 

But this is a simulator, it's not an arcade game to fly unrealistic things. It you can rip the wings in real life, why shouldn't it rip in the game as well?? :huh: Just don't use the 'S' key. Like I said, before the update you could pull 30G at mach 1, is this realistic for you?

[Texac]

But this is a simulator, it's not an arcade game to fly unrealistic things. It you can rip the wings in real life, why shouldn't it rip in the game as well?? :huh: Just don't use the 'S' key. Like I said, before the update you could pull 30G at mach 1, is this realistic for you?

It was an UFO flight model I guess :lol:

[Gruja]

Good job, this is like in real life but on other side F-15 is still arcade plane. I hope you will change this parameters for Eagle too, or not?

[Stuge]

Ironhand, I don't understand the part where it describes different weights. 150000 kg?

[Falcon_S]

http://www.endmemo.com/physics/weightforce.php

 

21400kg x 7.5G = 160500kg (weight/force N)

[Ironhand]

http://www.endmemo.com/physics/weightforce.php

 

21400kg x 7.5G = 160500kg (weight/force N)

You're right. I used "&" instead of "*", when I translated and didn't catch it.

 

EDIT: Or written another way...

 

171,000/(your gross weight)=Max allowable Gs for speeds of less than Mach .85 (for that example).

 

Doing the math is quite illustrative. And the faster you go, the worse it gets.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Ironhand

[Vitormouraa]

It was an UFO flight model I guess :lol:

 

I think so, Pugachev's Cobra at mach 1 LOL :D

[Stuge]

Ok guys got it thx :)