Trim is strange

[wolle]

+1 trimmer needs to be improved (unless someone has come up with a trim recipe that works for him/her, then please share)

[Oubaas]

The trim system is brilliant and changing it would be a vile atrocity. It's just a matter of learning to use it. This aircraft does not use the center position trimmer that the other helicopters in the DCS hangar use.

 

You need to assign buttons to "Trimmer", "Trim: Left Wing Down", "Trim: Nose Up", "Trim: Nose Down", and "Trim: Right Wing Down".

 

Once you have assigned these buttons or learned the default keyboard shortcuts, press and release "Trimmer" to turn the system on (or off). Once you've turned it on, tap the desired "Trim" button to adjust aircraft attitude.

 

There is no need to press and hold any buttons. Just press and release. And there is no need to center your stick. Just trim on the fly once you've turned on the system.

 

The problem is not the trim system. The problem is that people expect it to be the same as the other helicopters in DCS and don't understand how this system works. Once you learn this trim system, you can fly the Gazelle hands-off once it's trimmed. It's a great system, and I hope that Polychop will ignore all requests to change it. Barring that, they should make any changes optional so that those of us who like the aircraft's true trimming system are not forced to convert to the incorrect center trimmer system that so many people are clamoring for.

[Rocky49]

The development team also states that ffb is NOT implemented.

[dotChuckles]

The trim system is brilliant and changing it would be a vile atrocity. It's just a matter of learning to use it. This aircraft does not use the center position trimmer that the other helicopters in the DCS hangar use.

 

You need to assign buttons to "Trimmer", "Trim: Left Wing Down", "Trim: Nose Up", "Trim: Nose Down", and "Trim: Right Wing Down".

 

Once you have assigned these buttons or learned the default keyboard shortcuts, press and release "Trimmer" to turn the system on (or off). Once you've turned it on, tap the desired "Trim" button to adjust aircraft attitude.

 

There is no need to press and hold any buttons. Just press and release. And there is no need to center your stick. Just trim on the fly once you've turned on the system.

 

The problem is not the trim system. The problem is that people expect it to be the same as the other helicopters in DCS and don't understand how this system works. Once you learn this trim system, you can fly the Gazelle hands-off once it's trimmed. It's a great system, and I hope that Polychop will ignore all requests to change it. Barring that, they should make any changes optional so that those of us who like the aircraft's true trimming system are not forced to convert to the incorrect center trimmer system that so many people are clamoring for.

 

Just hold up there... I am pressing and immediately releasing. Go and do the same with the control window open and you will see the control input spike proportional to your control input.

 

This is an issue.

 

Also your understanding of how the trim system functions is incorrect. So please don't presume about other people's level of knowledge.

 

From the manual... "The magnetic brake maintains the cyclic in a defined position. Pressing the magnetic brake button at the pilot stick will define a new position to hold."

 

The hat switch then *further* refines that position. Nothing about the mag trim button turning it on and off. hit mag trim, fly, hold new attitude, hit trim, fly. Nothing about holding buttons down. (Which is only a workaround for the KA-50) You are just adding confusion here.

 

"The trim actuator will allow fine trimming, it can be set with the pilot cyclic china hat. Its main purpose is to allow the pilot to finely set the aircraft attitude, bring small modifications to the speed etc ... It may be used complementary with the magnetic brake system."

 

In order to simulate this without FFB you have to recenter your stick, this simulates the cancelling of force. There has to be a delay in order to let you do that. And there appears to be a small issue with that, hence the control spike.

 

But as I said, I'm sure this will be fixed.

Edited April 30, 2016 by dotChuckles

[giei]

I can't find the Trim On/Off keybinding.

[dotChuckles]

I can't find the Trim On/Off keybinding.

 

There isn't one. It is just a trim binding. which by default is "T", I would suggest putting it on your stick though. Ignore the stuff about trim being an off/on function.

 

Make sure you have enabled both trim switches on the main panel first.

[wolle]

The trim system is brilliant and changing it would be a vile atrocity. It's just a matter of learning to use it. This aircraft does not use the center position trimmer that the other helicopters in the DCS hangar use.

 

You need to assign buttons to "Trimmer", "Trim: Left Wing Down", "Trim: Nose Up", "Trim: Nose Down", and "Trim: Right Wing Down".

 

Once you have assigned these buttons or learned the default keyboard shortcuts, press and release "Trimmer" to turn the system on (or off). Once you've turned it on, tap the desired "Trim" button to adjust aircraft attitude.

 

There is no need to press and hold any buttons. Just press and release. And there is no need to center your stick. Just trim on the fly once you've turned on the system.

 

The problem is not the trim system. The problem is that people expect it to be the same as the other helicopters in DCS and don't understand how this system works. Once you learn this trim system, you can fly the Gazelle hands-off once it's trimmed. It's a great system, and I hope that Polychop will ignore all requests to change it. Barring that, they should make any changes optional so that those of us who like the aircraft's true trimming system are not forced to convert to the incorrect center trimmer system that so many people are clamoring for.

 

I don't think I agree: the real Gazelle pilot has both trim systems available to him/her. However 99% of us (non-FFB users) now have only the trim hat system available, which, as I understand it, is meant for fine adjustments only. I think polychop must give us the second option, and implement the "helicopter trim method" just like in the other choppers.

[giei]

There isn't one. It is just a trim binding. which by default is "T", I would suggest putting it on your stick though. Ignore the stuff about trim being an off/on function.

 

Make sure you have enabled both trim switches on the main panel first.

 

I'm searching the key for the trim on/off lever in front main panel.

[dotChuckles]

I'm searching the key for the trim on/off lever in front main panel.

 

It would appear that there isn't a binding for it. I had a good look through for you and couldn't find one, sorry.

[Oubaas]

Just hold up there... I am pressing and immediately releasing. Go and do the same with the control window open and you will see the control input spike proportional to your control input.

 

This is an issue.

 

Also your understanding of how the trim system functions is incorrect. So please don't presume about other people's level of knowledge.

 

From the manual... "The magnetic brake maintains the cyclic in a defined position. Pressing the magnetic brake button at the pilot stick will define a new position to hold."

 

The hat switch then *further* refines that position. Nothing about the mag trim button turning it on and off. hit mag trim, fly, hold new attitude, hit trim, fly. Nothing about holding buttons down. (Which is only a workaround for the KA-50) You are just adding confusion here.

 

"The trim actuator will allow fine trimming, it can be set with the pilot cyclic china hat. Its main purpose is to allow the pilot to finely set the aircraft attitude, bring small modifications to the speed etc ... It may be used complementary with the magnetic brake system."

 

In order to simulate this without FFB you have to recenter your stick, this simulates the cancelling of force. There has to be a delay in order to let you do that. And there appears to be a small issue with that, hence the control spike.

 

But as I said, I'm sure this will be fixed.

 

There's nothing that needs to be fixed. I just took off from Creech, ascended to a comfortable cruising altitude, trimmed the aircraft to level cruise and flew all the way to Nellis with no hands on the controls nor feet on the pedals. The system works brilliantly when understood and properly employed. It works so well, in fact, that I often turn it off because when used properly, the pilot is just along for the ride. It gets boring, so I turn the trim off and fly it manually a lot. It's the smoothest, most precise trim system of any of the helicopters.

[Home Fries]

.... the thing is ... what is that? how does it work? I enabled that option ocassionally ... but was never able to notice any difference ...? (compared to what btw?)

Sorry for the reply 4 pages later...

 

What you do is remove the trimmer hat and trimmer assignments from the DCS World Options menu and then set SimFFB to "Both" (which does instantaneous and progressive trimming). This prevents DCS from effectively doubling your inputs. Then you use your assigned button for instantaneous trimmer (just like the Huey) and the hat switch for progressive trimming. Both will move the stick, and trimming is taken care of outside of DCS.

[TomCatMucDe]

The trim system is brilliant and changing it would be a vile atrocity. It's just a matter of learning to use it. This aircraft does not use the center position trimmer that the other helicopters in the DCS hangar use.

 

You need to assign buttons to "Trimmer", "Trim: Left Wing Down", "Trim: Nose Up", "Trim: Nose Down", and "Trim: Right Wing Down".

 

Once you have assigned these buttons or learned the default keyboard shortcuts, press and release "Trimmer" to turn the system on (or off). Once you've turned it on, tap the desired "Trim" button to adjust aircraft attitude.

 

There is no need to press and hold any buttons. Just press and release. And there is no need to center your stick. Just trim on the fly once you've turned on the system.

 

The problem is not the trim system. The problem is that people expect it to be the same as the other helicopters in DCS and don't understand how this system works. Once you learn this trim system, you can fly the Gazelle hands-off once it's trimmed. It's a great system, and I hope that Polychop will ignore all requests to change it. Barring that, they should make any changes optional so that those of us who like the aircraft's true trimming system are not forced to convert to the incorrect center trimmer system that so many people are clamoring for.

 

 

 

That "Trim" on/off is a switch on the main panel and not on the stick. Its not meant to be turned on and off all the time. You should in principle turn it once and leave there.

 

The magnetic brake, which corresponds to the trim button we know in the other DCS choppers, is indeed on the steak but seems broken.

[Flagrum]

Sorry for the reply 4 pages later...

 

What you do is remove the trimmer hat and trimmer assignments from the DCS World Options menu and then set SimFFB to "Both" (which does instantaneous and progressive trimming). This prevents DCS from effectively doubling your inputs. Then you use your assigned button for instantaneous trimmer (just like the Huey) and the hat switch for progressive trimming. Both will move the stick, and trimming is taken care of outside of DCS.

Thanks, seems to be a quite usefull feature. But - and that might be the reason why I had ... and have problems with it - where do I tell SimFFB which hat or Dx buttons I want to use for the progressive trimming? I see only the drop down box for the normal trim ...?

 

edit:

lol, got it now ... the lower one on the G940. Sad thing is, I use that usually for all kind of stuff... hrm, but maybe not necessarily in the Gazelle. Ok, I'll try that. Thanks again!

Edited April 30, 2016 by Flagrum

[giei]

That "Trim" on/off is a switch on the main panel and not on the stick. Its not meant to be turned on and off all the time. You should in principle turn it once and leave there.

 

The magnetic brake, which corresponds to the trim button we know in the other DCS choppers, is indeed on the steak but seems broken.

 

I know but I build a 3 arduino devices (64 buttons, 16 lever and 10 pots) to avoid mouse. :cry:

[TomCatMucDe]

The Trim button on the stick keeps the diamond on the virtual axis window where it should(RCTRL + Enter) but the Gazelle will ignore that stick position and goes back to level flight as if it is following the real stick and not the trimmed position.

[HOKUM52]

is theere a manual?

[zerO_crash]

There's nothing that needs to be fixed. I just took off from Creech, ascended to a comfortable cruising altitude, trimmed the aircraft to level cruise and flew all the way to Nellis with no hands on the controls nor feet on the pedals. The system works brilliantly when understood and properly employed. It works so well, in fact, that I often turn it off because when used properly, the pilot is just along for the ride. It gets boring, so I turn the trim off and fly it manually a lot. It's the smoothest, most precise trim system of any of the helicopters.

 

Certainly doesn`t get close to KA50 trim, nor MI8MTV5, but it is fairly good for what it is.

[ody81]

Once you get her over 100 you don't need any rudder at all.

 

 

 

Really? seems I have a problem somewhere then. I was mainly referring to when I slow down and get to hover anyway, that's what kills my wrist lol.

 

 

 

That's just my wish anyhow, an optional trim and trim recenter system just like the other helos, might not be the most realistic but if you don't have pedals and ffb... it's the best option.

Edited April 30, 2016 by ody81

[HoneyBadger]

is theere a manual?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1v4R709BvJUR3RfWmtlM1ltamM/view?ths=true

[King_Hrothgar]

The Trim button on the stick keeps the diamond on the virtual axis window where it should(RCTRL + Enter) but the Gazelle will ignore that stick position and goes back to level flight as if it is following the real stick and not the trimmed position.

 

I found that as well. It trims wonderfully with a 4 way hat until I touch the stick, then it goes nuts. Trying to describe it is difficult, but I know exactly what the problem is. It is an error in the code, not an issue of realism. What's going on is if pitching down with trim, forward stick works as it should, but back pressure does not. What seems to be happening is backstick is deadzone while also slowly deleting your trim setting too until you reach the physical centered position, and then it jumps to the untrimmed state with back pressure. The result is basically an uncontrollable aircraft. I bet the exact same effect could be observed if trimming it to pitch up and then moving the stick forwards, but I haven't tested it. For now the only advice I can give is to not use trim at all as it is completely broken atm. And that is a shame, since the fine tune trim controls would otherwise be amazing.

Edited May 1, 2016 by King_Hrothgar

[Mt5_Roie]

Logged in the bug report thread.

 

I found that as well. It trims wonderfully with a 4 way hat until I

touch the stick, then it goes nuts. Trying to describe it is difficult, but I know exactly what the problem is. It is an error in the code, not an issue of realism. What's going on is if pitching down with trim, forward stick works as it should, but back pressure does not. What seems to be happening is backstick is deadzone while also slowly deleting your trim setting too until you reach the physical centered position, and then it jumps to the untrimmed state with back pressure. The result is basically an uncontrollable aircraft. I bet the exact same effect could be observed if trimming it to pitch up and then moving the stick forwards, but I haven't tested it. For now the only advice I can give is to not use trim at all as it is completely broken atm. And that is a shame, since the fine tune trim controls would otherwise be amazing.

[rogonaut]

im confused:)

 

checked the manual - trim and magnetic brake is on.

 

it doesnt make a difference for me if i press the trim (magnetic brake) on the pilot stick or not. i can always fine trim with the 4 way switch BUT i cant get the nose down to a level flight its always stuck at a climb and wont go down further.

Edited May 1, 2016 by rogonaut