My kickstarter is live!!! MiG-21bis main powerpanel

[pappavis]

Thanx Doom!! 2000% spot on!! :thumbup::thumbup:

 

I was getting sick of all the filth being thrown at me.

 

"Let the market decide".

Yes, a valid point. Even if it fails. So what? I'm not giving up.

 

 

@Ian.

See comment by D00m below regarding DCS-BIOS.

 

@all

i would like to co-operate with enthusiastic socially skilled solution-minded community members to create suitable hardware products for the community.

Join the team. Lets launch a kick-ass product.

See info here --> https://part-up.com/partups/vliegtuigsimulatie-cockpitpanels-voor-dcs-world-o6Sgd9f7vafYNgcHD

 

@159th squad.

TX u guys for the encouragement :) :)

 

regards,

Michiel Erasmus aka 159th_pappavis

 

 

 

For what its worth, I would trust pappavis and his intentions entirely. he's always been a good guy with honest intentions and extremely helpful to those whom come to him with questions. The 159th is certainly a group that is quite giving to the community and I owe them much. That said, it pains me to see the tone this thread has taken - questioning the venture proposed is fine but there really are other ways to present positions and inquiries that dispense with the vitriol and hostility.

 

yes - many folks could make these panels themselves - part of what sets a "Market rate" is determining a price that i will accept so I do not have to do more work than i want to... 25 Euro to me is in that ball park as it saves my time searching/ordering/messing with learning Bodnar... Sure, I'll have to mess about with DCS BIOS but that was expected when I heard it mentioned. That said, I was interpreting his "Plug and Play" to refer to the plugging of switches into his custom PCB board, not the plug and play into the sim but I can see how the confusion can arise and I might be wrong on how he intended to use that term.

 

At any rate, it would likely be much better for us all if we dialed back a bit on the tone here.

 

Edited June 8, 2016 by pappavis
1.1

[MacFevre]

Михель, I'm curious how you would go about actually using a panel like this? Would you just have it sitting out in the open as is? I think one of the things you ought to think about is how it actually looks. Even the most basic switch panels on here are mounted in a box, and I'm having trouble seeing how it would mount. Might just be me, but I know what one of the immersion factors isn't just having a switch that throws one in the sim, but looks the same also.

 

Also, in your video showing the board in use, at mark 0:14, you toggle the second switch, but in the cockpit it shows the second switch being thrown, as well as the third at the same time. I'm not familiar with the MIG-21, but is that supposed to happen?

[FSFIan]

If someone who is not already familiar with DCS-BIOS reads the following statements from the Kickstarter page, they will assume that they won't have to do any configuration steps themselves:

 

Plug & Play USB-port cockpit panel for DCS: MiG-21bis

Its plug-play using USB and uses the open source library ‘DCS-BIOS’ by “[FSF] Ian”.

Installation and usage is <=5 minutes. Download drivers. Plugin. Fly.

 

It's no unreasonable assumption, as a panel driven by a Leo Bodnar board would fit this description, and you could even imagine a version of DCS-BIOS that would use something like USB HID instead of serial ports and could autodiscover newly connected devices. But while it's a reasonable assumption in the absence of other information, that's not how DCS-BIOS actually works.

 

The Kickstarter page does not mention Windows changing COM port numbers behind your back, the need to edit connect-serial-port.cmd, or the need to manually run connect-serial-port.cmd before running DCS.

 

The Kickstarter page says "For issues regarding DCS-BIOS visit the ED-forums." That means that if this project attracts any users who expect to be spoon-fed, they will find the DCS-BIOS thread and I will have to deal with them. And I know from prior experience that this can be very annoying and take all of the fun out of writing software.

 

There would be an easy way to avoid this problem: honestly state up front what the user is expected to learn and configure by themselves.

 

I have not seen a single argument defending the claim that the panel advertised on Kickstarter will be "plug and play"; instead, there were the following arguments (paraphrased):

• The Vive isn't quite plug and play either, but it's still a great product!
  
• I know DCS-BIOS requires some fiddling, so my kickstarter backers, whom I didn't warn about that on the product page, should know that too
  
• I already knew what DCS-BIOS was before reading the Kickstarter page, so anyone else should, too
  
• Plug and play means not having to solder the switches (no, it doesn't.)
  

 

As long as there seems to be no genuine interest in honestly letting the backers know what to expect, any significant success of this crowdfunding campaign carries the risk of flooding me with clueless, entitled "support calls". If you want to thank me for building DCS-BIOS, please do so by not misrepresenting its capabilities.

[karambiatos]

Good luck paps on your little venture, unfortunately i hadn't the means to donate currently :(

[Kuky]

I fully agree about the advertised plug and play feature to be misleading and shount not be used. Also to point to ED forums for aditional help is not on.... if you are selling this product then it is you and your webpage responsible for providing all the know-how and user help... not Ian or anybody else from this form.

[Hadwell]

yeah just buy a bunch of 10$ usb gamepads, that just show up as a generic xxx button controllers, tear them apart and solder the switches to them, then you can just plug in the usb and it works, no extra drivers or anything.

[pappavis]

Is any1 gonna quote MY text, or only cherry picking which is suitable to themselves?

 

 

@FSF Ian;

* The board is Arduno which is USB plug& play.

* Install of dcs-bios is required, configuring LUA scripts.

* Common problems experienced are related to user errors in config files, or local firewalls.

* The DIY beta kit requires require soldering the Arduiino and (optional) expansion ports onto the main board. The switches one needs to plugin to their positions.

* If, when the project is succes i will release detailed setup instructions.

* Kickstarter page is updated

 

Sum ppl here certainly hopes my Kickstarter fails.

 

Hi backers.

 

 

To get the panel to work;

* Download 3rd party DCS-BIOS, configure some LUA scripts. Start DCS & enjoy.

* Its comparable to printer / joystick / HTC Vive installation.

 

What you need;

* Notepad -- text editor. * Max 5 minutes of your time.

 

 

It sounds scary but actually very simple!!

 

Common problems;

* User errors, typing mistakes made by user in LUA script.

* No interaction between DCS & the panel. Check the com-port.

* Local firewall on your computer prevents local data traffic.

 

Notes:

1. The developer of DCS-BIOS isnt involved and cant be held liable for whatever reason.

2. The panel is Early Access. meaning, you are funding further development.

3. If you either dont support indie devs like us, or dont trust.. then dont buy.

4. The panel will be released on a creative commons license.

Edited June 9, 2016 by pappavis
1.2 Forum members must treat other with respect and tolerance. 1.1 profanity

[FSFIan]

I was quoting your text, but I was limiting my quotes to what was on the Kickstarter page, since that's the one that has the button to back your project and it doesn't link to this thread.

 

Thanks for posting that update to the Kickstarter page, even if the main description remained the same.

 

Regarding "The board is Arduno which is USB plug& play.":

[ame]

[/ame]

 

I'll shut up now.

[agrasyuk]

@all

i would like to co-operate with enthusiastic socially skilled solution-minded community members to create suitable hardware products for the community.

Join the team. Lets launch a kick-ass product.

there are plenty of that type of people on this board, but so far it didn't sound at all like you interested to cooperate with anyone.

 

Sum ppl here certainly hopes my Kickstarter fails.

that is a very strange takeout from all of this that you made. whether you succeed or fail will not change anything to someone not interested in your offering. Do you really think that if your KS fails it will be for reason of people here not liking you personally? :doh:

[MacFevre]

Михель, You wouldn't have any of those videos available with english subtitles, would you?

[pappavis]

Update posted on Kickstarter.

 

DISCLAIMER:

1. The developer of DCS-BIOS isnt involved and cant be held liable for whatever reason. He doesnt give support to the panel and cannot answer any questions whatsoever.

 

2. The panel is Early Access. meaning, you are funding further development.

 

3. If you either dont support indie devs like us, or dont trust.. then dont buy.

 

4. The panel will be released on a creative commons license.

 

5. By backing this, you agree to being a beta tester along with the risks involved therein.Also you are willing to report bugs and suggest improvements.

 

demo vid added

(no subtitles)

[pappavis]

Михель, You wouldn't have any of those videos available with english subtitles, would you?

 

looking good your pits!! Maybe we can get sumthing going? PM me pls.. :smilewink:

[Deadman]

The plans Mac use to build his pit are all ready cover under a cc license that is not held by Mac.

[Slick]

Subscription added.

To papvis, just go ahead with your project.

I think you got some good comments/critics. Turn them into positive stuff, improve your product.

 

Everybody makes mistakes and everybody learns from those. I think your idea is good, though can be even better.

Will keep track of this thread mainly because it's funny.

Tailwinds people!

[RastaPutin]

"What bugs me is that the Kickstarter page makes false claims about the capabilities of my software."... :Flush:

Personally I wouldnt be in such a rush to claim ownership of a product that has yet, after nearly 15 years, failed to function as advertised.

A claim that ignores the fact that much of the code is still rooted in the work of Bezruchkin, Fokin and Kascheev .. and seems more a statement

of ego and selfishness worthy only of a Toom Tabard, than of any real concern about misrepresentation.

[FSFIan]

"What bugs me is that the Kickstarter page makes false claims about the capabilities of my software."... :Flush:

Personally I wouldnt be in such a rush to claim ownership of a product that has yet, after nearly 15 years, failed to function as advertised.

A claim that ignores the fact that much of the code is still rooted in the work of Bezruchkin, Fokin and Kascheev .. and seems more a statement

of ego and selfishness worthy only of a Toom Tabard, than of any real concern about misrepresentation.

 

You might want to read up on the difference between DCS and DCS-BIOS. :doh:

DCS being the flight simulator developed by Eagle Dynamics, and DCS-BIOS being an add-on that adds connectivity to Arduino-based hardware panels.

Edited June 15, 2016 by [FSF]Ian

[Warhog]

"What bugs me is that the Kickstarter page makes false claims about the capabilities of my software."... :Flush:

Personally I wouldnt be in such a rush to claim ownership of a product that has yet, after nearly 15 years, failed to function as advertised.

A claim that ignores the fact that much of the code is still rooted in the work of Bezruchkin, Fokin and Kascheev .. and seems more a statement

of ego and selfishness worthy only of a Toom Tabard, than of any real concern about misrepresentation.

If you are going to post on this thread it would help to read and understand what we are talking about. Otherwise you will continue to look the fool you just did.

[pappavis]

Subscription added.

To papvis, just go ahead with your project.

I think you got some good comments/critics. Turn them into positive stuff, improve your product.

 

Tx :):).

The critics is a learning experience.