Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 8

[BodyOrgan]

I dont assume all redfor ka50 pilots are incapable. And I would never assume they are due to a feature added for them. :D I based my statement about a high percentage of incapable ka50 pilots on my experience with them during round 6 and 7. At the same time I would NOT rate the percentage of incapable A10c pilots higher, nor lower. Both are counting towards the more complex modules. And either people cant handle that, cant be bothered to read the manual or are just lacking the experience.

Let me turn this around. Bluefor Gazelle pilots are so pathetic they need an intel bombing script to help them win. How would you interpret this?

 

Its plain wrong that nobody asked for it. I know it was a ridiculous minority which asked for the intel menu on KA50s. Thats why I am even more confused why it got added.

I didn't even realize this. It seems the culprit has stepped forth.

 

To come to the point of my original post considering the addition of this feature. I did not claim nor want to claim that redfor asked for it or was in need for it. I just wanted to state why I think its an bad choice.

That's fine, but this tirade on our Ka-50 "super weapon" is getting a bit out of hand. All I hear anymore is Ka-50 this, Ka-50 that... everyone is getting so butt hurt because we have a few pilots who are capable of using it, and actually getting something done.

 

Sounds to me like we're about to go back to "Remove Ka-50! Remove A-10C! Remove <insert your favorite module here>!

 

Well I did put thought into the MI8 part, AFAIK one can put different CTLD option for different unit groups. So put 2 mi8 as task transport with no intel menue and 2 mi8 as task CAS with the intel menu. Done.

Imho the mi8 is still by miles a better helicopter then the gazelle but thats up for debate. :D

We don't have that many Mi-8's on a FARP. If this were done, then we couldn't get KUBS up quickly.

 

For the numbers, I dont find it enjoyable either. I did choose blue because the people I like to fly with are on blue. I have the time, technically I could just hop into a gazelle, bomb the shit out of everything while nearly no reds are online, have some random arse failing uh1 pilot bring troops and just bring the round to an end.

The sooner you do this the sooner I can get back to RL.

 

So yea, hope I could clarify my standpoint. I will probably not answer any further hyperbolic interpretations of my posts, unless I am in the mood for a mud fight so be advised. :D

I saw you as the snarky one.

 

"How dare you guys discuss the server on the server discussion thread!"

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

I thought this was a Round discussion?

 

i don't like you any more :mad:

I'm glad I wasn't drinking any coke otherwise it'd have come out of my nose :smilewink:

[gregzagk]

3 PM Berlin time

:D

 

Noooooo how did you manage that?

You took the screenshot at the only 3 minutes that this happened! Look again.

 

EDIT: It was a server restart

 

Reds are more since morning and retook the east airbases. I am monitoring all the time.

 

Greg

Edited August 1, 2016 by gregzagk

[NaCH]

:D

 

Noooooo how did you manage that?

You took the screenshot at the only 3 minutes that this happened! Look again.

 

Reds are more since morning and retook the east airbases. I am monitoring all the time.

 

Greg

 

I will take one on each hour.. right now is 6 red vs 5 blues that is not 30 vs 3 ...being a "group effort" ... is better for red to consolidate and defend on one point as we did on the test as we stop red in Krasno being 40 vs 4 with choppers only and settings up BUKs

[BodyOrgan]

:D

 

Noooooo how did you manage that?

You took the screenshot at the only 3 minutes that this happened! Look again.

 

Reds are more since morning and retook the east airbases. I am monitoring all the time.

 

Greg

I watch it all the time too, and we have not yet taken all the east bases back, and 6 vs 5 is a far cry from 30+ vs 5.

[TheSnark]

Greg is correct though, same complaints about the numbers were made in the previous rounds ;).

 

I picked blue because golly gosh, I love my Mirage 2000. It was either the 21 or the 2000 I would fly, and since the 21 doesn't stand a chance without much of a GCI I figured the Baguette Fighter would suit me better! Especially since lives are very limited when flying fighters.

[microvax]

i don't like you any more :mad:

 

 

I didnt said panhead. :D You know the deal with random pilots not on Comms. :D :lol:

 

Edit: 1337 engliszh. didnt said, gonna leave it for le banterz

Edited August 1, 2016 by microvax

[NaCH]

16:00 Berlin time

 

 

 

*★ВАРЯГ★ counts as maybe 4 players.. because he is beast flying everything. :D

Edited August 1, 2016 by NaCH

[NaCH]

Greg is correct though, same complaints about the numbers were made in the previous rounds ;).

 

I picked blue because golly gosh, I love my Mirage 2000. It was either the 21 or the 2000 I would fly, and since the 21 doesn't stand a chance without much of a GCI I figured the Baguette Fighter would suit me better! Especially since lives are very limited when flying fighters.

 

Yeah.. so that logic does not apply to RED and I guess it works better for the event...

 

I mean and then I have people on this thread talking about what is best for the community.

Edited August 1, 2016 by NaCH

[microvax]

So much salt from Bluefor on this forum. If you spent this much energy taking our bases you would have won buy now! Why is everyone so worried about what the KA50 does or doesn't do? The people of BuddySpike have done an exceptional job with this event. So if you dont like the way it is, maybe you need to find a different server.

 

Reaper6

 

The salt is pretty much everywhere. :lol:

[microvax]

Well I'm just not sure why so many people have camplaints about what the KA50 can and can't do. Attack Helicopters are made to hide and attack, so if Bluefor can't find them how is that our problem? Attack Helicopters aren't able to call in Bombers IRL while hiding?

 

Reaper6

 

To clarify I did not mean to complain about the fact that the KA50 has the intel menu.

I did want to state why I think its an ridicoulous choice.

 

And technically KA50s where never used as target designation helicopters. KA29s with the rubikon where used for that. But thats really no point for blueflag. Helicopters can carry 3 kub launchers. Its more competitive event then real world scenario simulation. And thats not an fault or anything just pointing it out.

[mia389]

Well I'm just not sure why so many people have camplaints about what the KA50 can and can't do. Attack Helicopters are made to hide and attack, so if Bluefor can't find them how is that our problem? Attack Helicopters aren't able to call in Bombers IRL while hiding?

 

Reaper6

 

By this logic, all planes should have capability to call in bombers

[BodyOrgan]

Greg, be sure to swap the colors next round. The Russian equipment becomes Bluefor. I'd like to see how this pans out for science!

[microvax]

Let me turn this around. Bluefor Gazelle pilots are so pathetic they need an intel bombing script to help them win. How would you interpret this?

 

 

I didn't even realize this. It seems the culprit has stepped forth.

 

 

That's fine, but this tirade on our Ka-50 "super weapon" is getting a bit out of hand. All I hear anymore is Ka-50 this, Ka-50 that... everyone is getting so butt hurt because we have a few pilots who are capable of using it, and actually getting something done.

 

Sounds to me like we're about to go back to "Remove Ka-50! Remove A-10C! Remove <insert your favorite module here>!

 

 

We don't have that many Mi-8's on a FARP. If this were done, then we couldn't get KUBS up quickly.

 

 

The sooner you do this the sooner I can get back to RL.

 

 

I saw you as the snarky one.

 

 

I thought this was a Round discussion?

 

 

I'm glad I wasn't drinking any coke otherwise it'd have come out of my nose :smilewink:

 

I would interpret that as you have never flown the gazelle and are making an bold statement to get me started. Because if you did fly it, you would know that its practically impossible to attack anything with the 342l, due the inflexible gunmount, taking out shilkas is technically possible with terrain masking up to a range of like 500-700m.

But I doubt attacking a group of 3-4 shilkas is possible, your only possibility is to engage them before they get a firing solution. Maybee 2 if you have good controlls and get lucky.

23-2s are not a problem but shilkas simply are to "accurate". You cant wiggle a bit to screw over their lead either due to the fixed mount.

The 342M is overloaded if you take full fuel and 4 hots already, irl standard loadout would be pretty much 2 HOT3s. I dont think that is sufficient for attacking anything in blue flag [its even lacking to take out SA6 sites, since you can repair them unless you fire your whole ordanance].

To come to the point of range, 4.3km vs. 8km might not seem like a big deal.

The Area you have to consider though for search operations is roughly 4 times as big. [53km^2 vs ~205km^2].

You practically cant move while engaging with a gazelle M either, nor can you lock a target.

 

So while you can attack stuff succesfully. You would need 3 gazelle pilots to engage with HOT missiles to even get the vikhr numbers equalized. Not speaking about glorious s8 and the shipunov.

 

So its less an issue of pilot skill then of frame capability as far as my analysis goes.

 

I dont say its an superweapon and again, cite me if I did state that somewhere. I just did state, the KA50 is way more powerfull then any of the gazelle variants. I do not get why it gets another powerfull feature.

 

I didnt say OMG OVERPOWERZ PLOX NURF.

I didnt mean that either.

I didnt say OMG REDFOR SHITTY PILOTZ YOU NEED BOMBER CALL IN TO BE COMPETITIVE.

I did mean to state though that I think that the average KA50 performance made it easier to make it seem like an acceptable Idea to give it the intel menu. :D

 

And I will say, yes the KA50 is no overpowered deathstar, but it is a deathstar, with the corresponding weaknesses. :D

 

 

I think KA50 on one side, a10c on the other is a pretty okay deal. I really do not know what frame I would rate more capable in blueflag. I do not want to remove anything, I am just stating that I do not get why it got the intel menu, already beeing one of the most capable frames in a2g. While the gazelle is one of the least capable frames. [Honestly I rate the Mirage with 8 mk82s a way better option then a Gazelle M without the bomber.]

 

 

I think it would be only fair if you got 4 mi8 and 2 ka50 slots. Or two ka50 slots in the really downgraded variant and intel, 2 no restrictions no intel ka50 slots and two mi8 slots.

We atm have 2 342m 2 342l and 2 uh1 slots. And while they are performance wise worse then the russian helis, I do not care at all. We have 6 heli slots [although then I want muh 342l cargo fixed, atm it only works on BE-TL farp.], you should get them as well. With your respective frames.

 

Naah definetly not snarky. :D I am actually known for beeing to much on the search for the most neutral analysis. :DD so yeah. Dunno what to say about that one, made my day. :DD

 

For the last time. I do not even request removal of the KA50 intel call out.

I just state, that I think its not a reasonable decision that it got it.

If you have a good reason why ka50s should get it and not special slot mi8s, please explain maybee I am really overseeing something important,

 

So now lemme get back to work. :D

By that I am a capitalist pig it seems. Damn. :D

 

 

Edit: I do not mind which equipment I am fighting with. I did advocate the m2k removal at front line bases as well. If something seems irrational to me, I state that. Doesnt mean that I am correct or anything.

Again, I do make my side choice on the people I want to fly with, not which equipment I get, nor how many we are. [Tblisi defence force intensifies.]

Edited August 1, 2016 by microvax

[NaCH]

5 PM Berlin

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by NaCH

[kobeshow]

17 PM? damn how many hours are there in your day? :D

[M0ltar]

I forget that red never outnumbers blue.... Blue was able to push 3 airbases last night before 12AM CST. Looks like between that time and now you guys took it all back. Yes, blue has more players, but there are plenty of times when red has more and lets face it, red is usually more organized then us scrubs.

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by M0ltar

[Frostie]

17 PM? damn how many hours are there in your day? :D

 

Sounds like a long night :D

[M0ltar]

I would interpret that as you have never flown the gazelle and are making an bold statement to get me started. Because if you did fly it, you would know that its practically impossible to attack anything with the 342l, due the inflexible gunmount, taking out shilkas is technically possible with terrain masking up to a range of like 500-700m.

But I doubt attacking a group of 3-4 shilkas is possible, your only possibility is to engage them before they get a firing solution. Maybee 2 if you have good controlls and get lucky.

23-2s are not a problem but shilkas simply are to "accurate". You cant wiggle a bit to screw over their lead either due to the fixed mount.

The 342M is overloaded if you take full fuel and 4 hots already, irl standard loadout would be pretty much 2 HOT3s. I dont think that is sufficient for attacking anything in blue flag [its even lacking to take out SA6 sites, since you can repair them unless you fire your whole ordanance].

To come to the point of range, 4.3km vs. 8km might not seem like a big deal.

The Area you have to consider though for search operations is roughly 4 times as big. [53km^2 vs ~205km^2].

You practically cant move while engaging with a gazelle M either, nor can you lock a target.

 

So while you can attack stuff succesfully. You would need 3 gazelle pilots to engage with HOT missiles to even get the vikhr numbers equalized. Not speaking about glorious s8 and the shipunov.

 

So its less an issue of pilot skill then of frame capability as far as my analysis goes.

 

I dont say its an superweapon and again, cite me if I did state that somewhere. I just did state, the KA50 is way more powerfull then any of the gazelle variants. I do not get why it gets another powerfull feature.

 

I didnt say OMG OVERPOWERZ PLOX NURF.

I didnt mean that either.

I didnt say OMG REDFOR SHITTY PILOTZ YOU NEED BOMBER CALL IN TO BE COMPETITIVE.

I did mean to state though that I think that the average KA50 performance made it easier to make it seem like an acceptable Idea to give it the intel menu. :D

 

And I will say, yes the KA50 is no overpowered deathstar, but it is a deathstar, with the corresponding weaknesses. :D

 

 

I think KA50 on one side, a10c on the other is a pretty okay deal. I really do not know what frame I would rate more capable in blueflag. I do not want to remove anything, I am just stating that I do not get why it got the intel menu, already beeing one of the most capable frames in a2g. While the gazelle is one of the least capable frames. [Honestly I rate the Mirage with 8 mk82s a way better option then a Gazelle M without the bomber.]

 

 

I think it would be only fair if you got 4 mi8 and 2 ka50 slots. Or two ka50 slots in the really downgraded variant and intel, 2 no restrictions no intel ka50 slots and two mi8 slots.

We atm have 2 342m 2 342l and 2 uh1 slots. And while they are performance wise worse then the russian helis, I do not care at all. We have 6 heli slots [although then I want muh 342l cargo fixed, atm it only works on BE-TL farp.], you should get them as well. With your respective frames.

 

Naah definetly not snarky. :D I am actually known for beeing to much on the search for the most neutral analysis. :DD so yeah. Dunno what to say about that one, made my day. :DD

 

For the last time. I do not even request removal of the KA50 intel call out.

I just state, that I think its not a reasonable decision that it got it.

If you have a good reason why ka50s should get it and not special slot mi8s, please explain maybee I am really overseeing something important,

 

So now lemme get back to work. :D

By that I am a capitalist pig it seems. Damn. :D

 

 

Edit: I do not mind which equipment I am fighting with. I did advocate the m2k removal at front line bases as well. If something seems irrational to me, I state that. Doesnt mean that I am correct or anything.

Again, I do make my side choice on the people I want to fly with, not which equipment I get, nor how many we are. [Tblisi defence force intensifies.]

 

 

My question with this whole argument on choppers being able to call in the bombers is this; why can they do it to begin with? Yes I get that they can do it in real life, but the issue, both with the Gazelle and the KA50 is that they can just sit in a spot and do it repeatedly without having to fly back to base. The hawk and the l39 I believe were much more balanced. Yes, you could call in intel when you were still in flight, but you have limited flight time and while you fly you are a target.

 

IMHO, having the intel gathering be on the helos makes the hawk and l39 kind of useless. Why not give the gazelle back its troops and call it good like its been in the past rounds?

 

Lastly, reaper, I think the reason some people are miffed about this is because the ka50 being able to call in bombers was never tested in the testing rounds to blue knowledge and was just added to the main rounds.

[Enduro14]

Expect the unexpected. Helicopters make the perfect recon platform. Enough with balance baloney. I'm sure if the hells where able to laze in bombs people would go bananas about it too. Just wish instead of bombers we had artillery as that is a primary successful asset of Russia. Just wait next round you will have a gazelle with 4 air to air missles that will be fun and interesting.

Instead of having a mindset of of oh man they can do this waaah waaah think of tactics to deny recon platforms into your area and execute.

[M0ltar]

Expect the unexpected. Helicopters make the perfect recon platform. Enough with balance baloney. I'm sure if the hells where able to laze in bombs people would go bananas about it too. Just wish instead of bombers we had artillery as that is a primary successful asset of Russia. Just wait next round you will have a gazelle with 4 air to air missles that will be fun and interesting.

Instead of having a mindset of of oh man they can do this waaah waaah think of tactics to deny recon platforms into your area and execute.

 

I really, honestly, don't have a problem with it being in. What I am starting to have an issue with is things getting changed with no explanation. I really wish the Buddyspike team would start using a change log so that all of us users can see what was changed and why.

[Enduro14]

I think that is a good idea also even after the testing phase this being my first blue flag I'm still figuring it out. Like for instance can you drop what you carrying from a hover or is it a requirement to land?

[NaCH]

17 PM? damn how many hours are there in your day? :D

 

Lol you right!

[microvax]

Expect the unexpected. Helicopters make the perfect recon platform. Enough with balance baloney. I'm sure if the hells where able to laze in bombs people would go bananas about it too. Just wish instead of bombers we had artillery as that is a primary successful asset of Russia. Just wait next round you will have a gazelle with 4 air to air missles that will be fun and interesting.

Instead of having a mindset of of oh man they can do this waaah waaah think of tactics to deny recon platforms into your area and execute.

 

Everything is interesting to use. We had one mysterious uh1 pilot not on comms which cleared and entire FARP with its miniguns.

And as stated, no problem with helis beeing recon platforms.

Just beeing confused why to add something good to something which is already really good. :D

[Reaper6]

To clarify I did not mean to complain about the fact that the KA50 has the intel menu.

I did want to state why I think its an ridicoulous choice.

 

And technically KA50s where never used as target designation helicopters. KA29s with the rubikon where used for that. But thats really no point for blueflag. Helicopters can carry 3 kub launchers. Its more competitive event then real world scenario simulation. And thats not an fault or anything just pointing it out.

 

Actually KA50 CAN laser designate targets, it's irrelevant if they were used for it.

 

Reaper6

[kobeshow]

I really, honestly, don't have a problem with it being in. What I am starting to have an issue with is things getting changed with no explanation. I really wish the Buddyspike team would start using a change log so that all of us users can see what was changed and why.

 

Changing things on the fly, during rounds and without much of a notice/explanation has been the modus operandi since I have joined the fun in round 5, you better get used to it.

 

Edit: Buddyspike team also tries to accomodate as much people as possible, so that might be a reason for it.