Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 8

[Jugdriver]

Ask Rage, he brought it up

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[Frostie]

Ask Rage, he brought it up

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

I think it's already been knocked on the head and was originally my fault for responding to someone elses BS statement with a far superior BS statement. :D

Arcade FC3 lets knock it on the head people.

[microvax]

I am looking forward to the memes that are going to be sideproduct of me running on red side this round. :D

 

Just waiting for the distributor to send me a replacement GPU. #prayforGPU

 

The memez are going to be good. And I am calling not only fc3 people arcade scrublordz, also people who do use allways alligned, no drift Mirage special option. [And as seen by the -z plural I am deadly serious about this topic and will ignore anyone ... *SARCASM*]

 

And tbh I just do it for le banter. :D

Just looking forward to be like "omg I am still alive and perfectly combat ready" when beeing hit by a missile in muh mirage and instantly die. xDDD

 

The Inquisition will happen, soon, in your Redfor TS channel. ;))))

 

 

EDIT:

 

Didnt even notice I scored that golden post.

Edited August 23, 2016 by microvax

[Jugdriver]

I don't fly jets, so this may be a stupid question... But what does this have to do with BlueFlag?

 

Reaper6

 

In the end it is a plane set/weapons set argument. It is the same kind of plane set/weapon set argument I have seen in other sims with other campaigns that eventually drove the guys who put on those campaigns to quit, so I have a suggestion to everyone. If you like the idea of the present plane set/weapon set fly round 9, if you don’t like the plane set/weapon set don’t fly round 9 and be patient, it will almost certainly change for round 10.

 

Now for a serious Blue Flag request, can we get the KA 50’s to have a Dayglo orange skin so they are easier to kill?

 

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[Reaper6]

In the end it is a plane set/weapons set argument. It is the same kind of plane set/weapon set argument I have seen in other sims with other campaigns that eventually drove the guys who put on those campaigns to quit, so I have a suggestion to everyone. If you like the idea of the present plane set/weapon set fly round 9, if you don’t like the plane set/weapon set don’t fly round 9 and be patient, it will almost certainly change for round 10.

 

Now for a serious Blue Flag request, can we get the KA 50’s to have a Dayglo orange skin so they are easier to kill?

 

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

"easier to kill"? Wouldn't one have to be killed first in order for it to be "easier" from then on?

 

Reaper6

[GGTharos]

Forget the orange; just remove the artificial stealth and allow the radars sets that can track spinning heli rotors actually do so. :)

[microvax]

Forget the orange; just remove the artificial stealth and allow the radars sets that can track spinning heli rotors actually do so. :)

 

+1 Even if I love to do it to le fighter pilots. :D

[Reaper6]

Forget the orange; just remove the artificial stealth and allow the radars sets that can track spinning heli rotors actually do so. :)

 

And add radar ground clutter? I'm all for that :)

 

Reaper6

[Jugdriver]

"easier to kill"? Wouldn't one have to be killed first in order for it to be "easier" from then on?

 

Reaper6

 

Seems you forgot about what happened to you over Tiblisi the other night, unless someone else uses the callsign Reaper and flies a KA 50? I just want to make it easier to see you guys so I can go guns more often.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[GGTharos]

There is already radar ground clutter. The very thing that allows the rejection of this clutter in look-down-shoot-down radars is the exact same thing that makes it impossible for a helicopter to hide from the modern radar by just hovering (or landing and keeping the rotor spinning).

 

A MiG-29 might get a jamming strobe, while more capable radar sets will initially show a large target speed, which will quickly be averaged out by the distance measurement.

 

That's why modern helicopters carry ECM, because the only other way to protect yourself from a SAM or fighter is to break LOS.

 

Right now helis have it really good from an enemy sensors detection and tracking perspective - unrealistically good.

[microvax]

And add radar ground clutter? I'm all for that :)

 

Reaper6

 

There is radar ground clutter, at least its implemented what radar groundclutter leads to.

 

If you are not looking up at the helicopter, it gets rejected as groundclutter by the doppler rejection. But there are Radars which actually have an doppler filter setting which looks for the doppler shifted echoes created by spinning rotor blades of a heli.

 

So If we did get that on concerning radars a helicopter would be detectable independant of speed and altitude [EDIT: Without any of the described side effects].

 

Dont ask me if the f15 has it, I have no Idea. I am just for the radars that have it, getting it. :D

 

EDIT: thx tharos for going into side effects for radars without a special doppler filter setting.

Edited August 23, 2016 by microvax

[Reaper6]

Seems you forgot about what happened to you over Tiblisi the other night, unless someone else uses the callsign Reaper and flies a KA 50? I just want to make it easier to see you guys so I can go guns more often.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

It was that or we couldn't capture all 3 airbases. I would trade a Ka50 for 2 towns and 3 airbases any day. It allowed the Mi8 to move in and drop troops, which I consider my primary responsibility in BlueFlag.

 

Reaper6

[Reaper6]

There is already radar ground clutter. The very thing that allows the rejection of this clutter in look-down-shoot-down radars is the exact same thing that makes it impossible for a helicopter to hide from the modern radar by just hovering (or landing and keeping the rotor spinning).

 

A MiG-29 might get a jamming strobe, while more capable radar sets will initially show a large target speed, which will quickly be averaged out by the distance measurement.

 

That's why modern helicopters carry ECM, because the only other way to protect yourself from a SAM or fighter is to break LOS.

 

Right now helis have it really good from an enemy sensors detection and tracking perspective - unrealistically good.

 

Interesting to know. Usually if there is more than 2 fighters that I can't shoot down on my own, my rotors stop spinning within 5 seconds.

 

Reaper6

[GGTharos]

If you recall the F-15E that bombed a heli, that heli was detected while on the ground from 50nm away. The radar was never taken out of air to air search - they used it to initially cue the targeting pod.

 

The two blackhawks which were tragically blue-on-blued were detected from ~40nm while travelling in a valley. The two F-15's used a 120 and a 9, two shots, two hits, despite evasive maneuvers by the second heli.

 

Dont ask me if the f15 has it, I have no Idea. I am just for the radars that have it, getting it. :D

[GGTharos]

Sounds like a sound tactic to me!

 

Helis should operate with air cover. That's not say they cannot be sneaky; the fact is that our virtual worlds aren't nearly as busy as reality.

 

Interesting to know. Usually if there is more than 2 fighters that I can't shoot down on my own, my rotors stop spinning within 5 seconds.

 

Reaper6

[Reaper6]

There is radar ground clutter, at least its implemented what radar groundclutter leads to.

 

If you are not looking up at the helicopter, it gets rejected as groundclutter by the doppler rejection. But there are Radars which actually have an doppler filter setting which looks for the doppler shifted echoes created by spinning rotor blades of a heli.

 

So If we did get that on concerning radars a helicopter would be detectable independant of speed and altitude.

 

Dont ask me if the f15 has it, I have no Idea. I am just for the radars that have it, getting it. :D

 

EDIT: thx tharos for going into side effects for radars without a special doppler filter setting.

 

Exactly why I am never far from a town, or something to hide in. Unless BlueFlag intends to have missiles turn corners around buildings? I think that is a what makes my Ka50 so amazing, Blue depends to heavily on technology rather than tactics. You don't send a Jet to kill a Heli, you send a jet to FIND a Heli. Then send in a Heli to kill it!

 

Reaper6

[GGTharos]

Everyone depends on 'technology' in flight SIMs, and not so much on flying, planning or tactics.

 

I think you've provided a solid (and rare) example of how one should conduct their sortie, regardless of what they are flying.

[microvax]

If you recall the F-15E that bombed a heli, that heli was detected while on the ground from 50nm away. The radar was never taken out of air to air search - they used it to initially cue the targeting pod.

 

The two blackhawks which were tragically blue-on-blued were detected from ~40nm while travelling in a valley. The two F-15's used a 120 and a 9, two shots, two hits, despite evasive maneuvers by the second heli.

 

Yeah, I know that you should see the helis even without a special filter option, just with some inaccurate readings in terms of speed as you said. I just thought you were talking about the special filter settings some g2a radars definetly have, dunno about a2a.

 

But anyways, I am happy about every step closer to reality we can get sensor wise.

 

*looks at theese terribly hot trees and cactus plants and chaff not beeing a radiowave reflecting object.*

[Reaper6]

Sounds like a sound tactic to me!

 

Helis should operate with air cover. That's not say they cannot be sneaky; the fact is that our virtual worlds aren't nearly as busy as reality.

 

Usually they are covering an area outside the Battle area, do to SAMs and especially Vaziana where there will be no less than 6 AI. Most of the time I prefer CAP not be around me, and allow me to maintain the element of surprise.

 

Reaper6

[microvax]

Exactly why I am never far from a town, or something to hide in. Unless BlueFlag intends to have missiles turn corners around buildings? I think that is a what makes my Ka50 so amazing, Blue depends to heavily on technology rather than tactics. You don't send a Jet to kill a Heli, you send a jet to FIND a Heli. Then send in a Heli to kill it!

 

Reaper6

 

Yup, apart from the moments when you detect an mi8 in a valley from 45 000ft fox 1 him at mach1.6 and its as banterous as it gets.

 

Apart from that I agree that overall helis are the better anti heli devices, in comparison to fighters.

While fighters should be better at detecting them, just relay their position and done.

[microvax]

Usually they are covering an area outside the Battle area, do to SAMs and especially Vaziana where there will be no less than 6 AI. Most of the time I prefer CAP not be around me, and allow me to maintain the element of surprise.

 

Reaper6

 

As long as rotor blades do not create a doppler shift I could not agree more. :D

 

The fighters mostly spoil the surprise, but as soon as blades create a doppler drift thats going to change drastically, I fear. Its much fun to sneak around. :D

[Reaper6]

Everyone depends on 'technology' in flight SIMs, and not so much on flying, planning or tactics.

 

I think you've provided a solid (and rare) example of how one should conduct their sortie, regardless of what they are flying.

 

I guess in a way I do depend on my 1950s TV technology lol. Nothing against Blue but I think Red is more into tactics than Blue. We most of the time have to because of the numbers(Not to bring that crappy topic up again). I have never flown Blue so I am no expert what they do over there. They just seem to have more unseasoned pilots than Red has.

 

Reaper6

[GGTharos]

The best anti-heli device should be a MANPAD.

 

Or just not being there :)

 

Plus smoke. Smoke is awesome.

[microvax]

The best anti-heli device should be a MANPAD.

 

Or just not being there :)

 

Plus smoke. Smoke is awesome.

 

true dat

[GGTharos]

Consider that you actually have a really modern TV, much more modern than the real deal :)

 

The real Shkval is very low resolution and distortion from optics will cause problems the further out you look. It should be quite adequate at dealing your targets within Vikhr range and a bit beyond, but if I think about you mentioning looking for fighters with it and how far away you see them, that sounds fishy. It's possible that it might work out like this RL, but still fishy :)

 

Granted though, you don't have the benefit of an RWR or anything like that.

 

As for tactics, yes, having less technology outright forces you to tactics more, just IMHO. All those tactics can be countered, but peeps who never used them before are highly vulnerable to them because this type of flying is just not in their mindset. IMHO.

 

I guess in a way I do depend on my 1950s TV technology lol. Nothing against Blue but I think Red is more into tactics than Blue. We most of the time have to because of the numbers(Not to bring that crappy topic up again). I have never flown Blue so I am no expert what they do over there. They just seem to have more unseasoned pilots than Red has.

 

Reaper6