AlphaOneSix Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 Well, overhaul times for one. Very short for Russian aircraft, when compared to Western aircraft. Just about everything on a Russian helicopter can be maintained in very sparse field conditions, with parts that are reusable, while Western aircraft need a little more TLC and very few common parts are simply reusable (e.g. filters and o-rings are washed, inspected, and reused on the Mi-8, while the same filters on an American aircraft would be discarded and replaced, and you NEVER reuse an o-ring on an American aircraft.) There's more examples, but I'm tired.
Holton181 Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 Well, overhaul... Sweden has a similar philosophy. I read a report made by the Swedish army in the late 90ties that mentioned a rather pronounced difference in overhaul philosophy between western and eastern equipment. The army whanted to evaluate three attack helicopters, the Apache, the Havoc and the Tiger. The didn't get their hands on any Tiger, but they got to borrow two Apache from UK and one Havoc from Russia. After several months of training on the Apache for the pilots doing the evolution flights, before actually being flying, they could only fly one of the two at a time while maintenance and different unplanned repair being required for the other one. The ground crew consisted of +20 people plus a heap of equipment. The training for the Havoc consisted of one Russian instructor siting at the position not evaluated for the moment giving instructions. He did not speak English so there was a translator on ground passing the information between pilot and instructor... It worked surprisingly well, the Havoc being very intuitive and ergonomic. The Havoc flew without any misshaps during the entire evaluation period, and the ground crew consisted of 2 or 3 guys if I remember correctly. To add to this: one of the sharp missiles fired by the Apache did not explode (a BIG no-no!) causing a major operation over several days to safely place TNT and neutralize it. /H Helicopters and Viggen DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta Win7 Pro 64bit i7-3820 3.60GHz P9X79 Pro 32GB GTX 670 2GB VG278H + a Dell PFT Lynx TrackIR 5
Holton181 Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 To add to this: one of the sharp missiles fired by the Apache did not explode (a BIG no-no!) causing a major operation over several days to safely place TNT and neutralize it. Ops, sorry, wrong by me. It was two Russian rockets, not American. Could not find the report (I have read it several year ago), but I found a good post regarding this here at ED: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=38209 /H Helicopters and Viggen DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta Win7 Pro 64bit i7-3820 3.60GHz P9X79 Pro 32GB GTX 670 2GB VG278H + a Dell PFT Lynx TrackIR 5
Whisper Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Apache has a reputation of being a hangar queen, though, probably not the same with other US choppers Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth. Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind. All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16
Rogue Trooper Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Well, overhaul times for one. Very short for Russian aircraft, when compared to Western aircraft. Just about everything on a Russian helicopter can be maintained in very sparse field conditions, with parts that are reusable, while Western aircraft need a little more TLC and very few common parts are simply reusable (e.g. filters and o-rings are washed, inspected, and reused on the Mi-8, while the same filters on an American aircraft would be discarded and replaced, and you NEVER reuse an o-ring on an American aircraft.) There's more examples, but I'm tired. This sort of thing worries me in a toe to toe high end adversary war. Will our kit just get worn down quicker.... can our precision kit deal a mighty enough blow to ensure the war ends before our high service equipment becomes a problem. HP G2 Reverb (Needs upgrading), Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. set to OpenXR, but Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), DLSS setting is quality at 1.0. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC... Everything needs upgrading in this system!. Vaicom user and what a superb freebie it is! Virpil Mongoose T50M3 base & Mongoose CM2 Grip (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS collective with counterbalance kit (woof woof). Virpil Apache Grip (OMG). MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound... goodbye VRS.
Rogue Trooper Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Apache has a reputation of being a hangar queen, though, probably not the same with other US choppers Hangar queen as in preventive service or repair? HP G2 Reverb (Needs upgrading), Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. set to OpenXR, but Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), DLSS setting is quality at 1.0. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC... Everything needs upgrading in this system!. Vaicom user and what a superb freebie it is! Virpil Mongoose T50M3 base & Mongoose CM2 Grip (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS collective with counterbalance kit (woof woof). Virpil Apache Grip (OMG). MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound... goodbye VRS.
Rogue Trooper Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Does it vibrate more than western choppers AlphaOneSix? HP G2 Reverb (Needs upgrading), Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. set to OpenXR, but Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), DLSS setting is quality at 1.0. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC... Everything needs upgrading in this system!. Vaicom user and what a superb freebie it is! Virpil Mongoose T50M3 base & Mongoose CM2 Grip (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS collective with counterbalance kit (woof woof). Virpil Apache Grip (OMG). MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound... goodbye VRS.
Weta43 Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 This sort of thing worries me ... can our precision kit deal a mighty enough blow to ensure the war ends before our high service equipment becomes a problem By 'our kit' I assume you mean Eurofighter Typhoon, AH-64E & Leopard 2 not MiG-35, Mi-28 & T-14 Armata ? As it's an international forum I wasn't sure. Cheers.
AlphaOneSix Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Does it vibrate more than western choppers AlphaOneSix? No. Well, a Chinook is smoother than an Mi-8 in ETL. The UH-60 is about the roughest shake I've ever felt in a helicopter during ETL, with the AH-64 not far behind. EDIT: Regarding the hangar queen comments, that was the rumor when I was in the Army back in the day and we still had a pretty good FMC rate on our AH-64s. Our limiting factor was always parts availability. But the biggest problem was with the wiring and avionics. Mechanically, the Apache is extremely reliable. And I understand that, for the most part, the avionics issues are not quite as bad as they used to be. Edited February 12, 2017 by AlphaOneSix
Verde Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 When generator fails some of the nav equipment fails for example doppler navigation, the range, slip etc freezes, what is the right order of such scenario managemnt?
AlphaOneSix Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 When both generators fail, you lose quite a bit of equipment. More than I am interested in listing. The only items that continue to have power are those that are "required for a safe landing." The doppler navigation system, for example, is not required for a safe landing. The way to fix it is to increase your rotor speed so the generators come back online. Or, preferably, never let your rotor speed drop so low that they go offline in the first place.
Verde Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 Cyes i understand that far... But when you are back on power and both generators are online, you still have frozen doppler, so what do you you do how you restart it mid air?
AlphaOneSix Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 I'v never used the Doppler system for real, so I am not sure. May need to just turn it off and back on.
rge75 Posted July 29, 2017 Posted July 29, 2017 After reading through this thread, I still don't get it. It simply happens very often to me that the generator fails in mission 6 of the campaign when I should pick up the troops. And I simply can't see how I can recover there. I don't think I'm doing tight manoevers there - just slowing down and watching the Vertical Velocity Indicator to make sure it's not dropping below 300. But suddenly...generator failure (I think sometimes even both). So the Mi-8 becomes pretty unstable and it results in "dropping down". Because I'm already only 400m above the ground, I can't recover it. In other words, I crashed 5 times in 5 attempts there and I have no clue why. I had some of those genrator failures in previous missions, but they always got online again and I had "no problems" to finsh those missions. My DCS videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJX2av4UE4xqWto3y8EZWMw [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Looney Posted July 31, 2017 Posted July 31, 2017 I don't know the mission 6 details but if you're entering a hover at 400m above the ground, it's going to be a long, long way down. If it's a mountain or elevated pick-up, go through the diagrams and calculate your fuel and set the appropriate amount to be as light as possible. Approach the landing zone at a lower altitude so you can get into a hover just a few meters above the ground or make a running landing if at all possible. One other thing to look for is your icing panel and see if it's active and if you receive any icing warnings during the flight, you might just be in an area of air with icing problems. Check your dust protectors to see if they're active yes or no as they bleed some power from the engines. That's all I can come up with other than increasing motor RPM to emergency but that's solving a symptom, not the problem since generator failure is locked to Rotor RPM and decreasing Rotor RPM is linked to power problems in the engines due to ice, dust, damage or pulling too much collective. Treat her like a lady on a first date, nice and gentle, make small adjustments to controls to see how she responds. On a side note, exiting a VRS condition can also be done by moving the cyclic left and adjusting pedals to compensate for yaw so as to exit the VRS sideways instead of dropping the nose and exiting forward. Rather than forward cyclic and reduce collective (as I have been teaching and evaluating for years), he actually increased the collective to climb power, added the appropriate left pedal to keep the nose straight and applied right cyclic. The combination of tail rotor thrust and right bank moved the aircraft to the right and almost immediately out of the vortex ring. I was amazed. After a little practice, I was making recoveries from a fully developed vortex ring state with only 20 to 30 ft of altitude loss. See more here: http://www.specializedheli.com/study-blog/2015/9/18/swp-settling-with-power-vortex-ring-state [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Commodore 64 | MOS6510 | VIC-II | SID6581 | DD 1541 | KCS Power Cartridge | 64Kb | 32Kb external | Arcade Turbo
rge75 Posted July 31, 2017 Posted July 31, 2017 Thanks for your reply. Well, maybe it's also sort of a language and technical problem so that I don't quite understand when this generator failure appears (I'm just a "gamer" with no real flight experience). I finally managed mission 6 though. And yes, I try to treat her like a lady, but sometimes she behaves like a touchy woman. I actually encounter problems in mission 8 when I have to start again after the troop pickup. I increase the collective slightly, gain some height and try to gain some speed afterwards. Sometimes it works, sometimes not (generator failure). I suppose it's best to land again if you're still close to the ground and then try again to take off? Just to understand it - it's like with the Huey when you're too heavy and you use the gov (e.g. the mountain rescue mission)? My DCS videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJX2av4UE4xqWto3y8EZWMw [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Looney Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 Increase collective slightly until you've established a hover, if the generators do not fail at this time, you should be good to get underway as hovering taxes the main rotor RPM the most. Add forward cyclic to get into ETL (Effective Translational Lift) without adding collective or perhaps a tiny bit. Once you've reached ETL (noticed by buffeting of the helicopter, than smoothing out) you will climb on your own without adding collective as your main rotor disc is now eating fresh undisturbed air, adding to its lift. If, at hovering, your generators fail, you need to check loaded weight, anti-icing and dust protectors. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Commodore 64 | MOS6510 | VIC-II | SID6581 | DD 1541 | KCS Power Cartridge | 64Kb | 32Kb external | Arcade Turbo
rge75 Posted August 1, 2017 Posted August 1, 2017 Thank you. This is helpful. If I still fail, I'll post a video. My DCS videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJX2av4UE4xqWto3y8EZWMw [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Havremonster Posted February 4, 2018 Posted February 4, 2018 I was sitting making missions using this helicopter. I use easy start. Suddently I only get this generators failure and cant fly it anymore...just out of nothing. And that after it has been working fine for many testflyings. Any advice?
Quadg Posted February 4, 2018 Posted February 4, 2018 Any advice? its obvious, learn to start it :) put some study into the study sim. you get the best clickable cockpit in the game and then don't want to click any of the buttons? what's wrong with you? :) i instantly had to know what all those buttons did. in that glorious cockpit. before i flew it.. 1 My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.
Looney Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 I was sitting making missions using this helicopter. I use easy start. Suddently I only get this generators failure and cant fly it anymore...just out of nothing. And that after it has been working fine for many testflyings. Any advice? We'll need more information before judging. What was the weather like? Winter? Summer? What was the load of the helicopter? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Commodore 64 | MOS6510 | VIC-II | SID6581 | DD 1541 | KCS Power Cartridge | 64Kb | 32Kb external | Arcade Turbo
Havremonster Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 its obvious, learn to start it :) put some study into the study sim. you get the best clickable cockpit in the game and then don't want to click any of the buttons? what's wrong with you? :) i instantly had to know what all those buttons did. in that glorious cockpit. before i flew it.. Well if I got this problem after click all the buttons, my computer would now be outside and I also would have a big hole in my window LOL :) It suddently works fine again now after I deleted the helicopter from missioneditor and then added it again.
Vampyre Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 I was sitting making missions using this helicopter. I use easy start. Suddently I only get this generators failure and cant fly it anymore...just out of nothing. And that after it has been working fine for many testflyings. Any advice? Your #2 engine probably didn't start. It happens sometimes when you use autostart. Just start up the engine and you will be good to go. Truly superior pilots are those that use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills. If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! "If at first you don't succeed, Carrier Landings are not for you!"
martinistripes Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 Can someone confirm, if I have a generator failure, should I manually flick the switch for the standby generator? Or should this always be on? Will the standby generator keep me in the air? Valve Index | RTX 4080 (Mobile) | i9-14900HX @ 2.20 GHz | 32GB RAM
AlphaOneSix Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 The standby generator is on the APU, so you have to have the APU running for it to work. You have two generators so the failure of one by itself is not a problem (except that the main and tail rotor de-ice systems only work off of the #1 generator). If both generators fail due to low rotor RPM, the corrective action is to increase your rotor speed or die trying.
Recommended Posts